King Paul I (1901-1964) and Queen Frederika (1917-1981)

[maria-olivia]

Wearing two tiaras on her Wedding Day was already unsual...

It was told that the Wedding of Princess Sofia costed a lot , a lot of money...
But the Royals do down of the staircase is a regal for the Royal Jewels.

King Constantine was too young and unprepared ! Was he Clever ??

[Addapalla]

Queen Frederike meddled in everything - way too involved in politics, which was a huge mistake for the monarchy. She went around the politicians in power, and also went straight past diplomats to tell the British and Americans what was needed, as if Greece was their top concern in all world matters. She was mostly treated politely by allied diplomats but they dreaded and loathed her.

Though not exactly happy with the state of things in 1970's Greece, Greece's allies were quite content to move along when the family fled abroad and almost nobody who had been dealing with them made any effort to bring them back into the picture. They were quickly shut out, almost as if they had never mattered. The relevant book I cited above is a bit dry and serious, but also very fair and thorough. A picture emerges of George II as *utterly useless* and Frederike as an overbearing and meddlesome “I know best” consort and Queen Mother who overshadowed both her husband and son.

To be fair to her, Frederike was probably well intentioned even in all her blunders, and it certainly did not help matters that during all those years she was the only real “force” within the Royal Family.

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

King Constantine was too young and unprepared ! Was he Clever ??

As a sportsman, perhaps...

[An Ard Ri]

Had King Pavlos lived longer would it have changed anything,I always felt he was held in high regard and respected?

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Had King Pavlos lived longer would it have changed anything,I always felt he was held in high regard and respected?

Yes, Paul was yet another good man who unfortunately became a monarch at an awful time. And if he had lived and kept the throne, his son may have had a chance to come into his own as a well prepared heir. But there still would still have been the meddler-in-chief to contend with. As Frederike recalls to my mind the fatally misguided Alexandra Feodorovna in her corrosive impact on the monarchy, her son Constantine calls to mind Nicholas II, who was equally unprepared to become ruler during a tumultuous and challenging era.

[An Ard Ri]

And sadly it was too late when the king offered to exclude Queen Mother from further interference in politics.

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

And sadly it was too late when the king offered to exclude Queen Mother from further interference in politics.

Yet another tragic Greek-Romanov parallel: Similarly it was already too late when panicked relatives (unsuccessfully) urged Nicholas to shut his wife away in a convent in order to salvage the monarchy.

[Prinsara]

It's rather tragic that the Greeks and Romanovs are so closely related Philip was easily available for DNA purposes (yes, that was his mother's side, but you get the point).

As far as Frederika and other cases go, meddling in politics is massively risky when you are clever, and fatal when you think you are. The rumors about her range from such strident anticommunism that she had people's children kidnapped, to yet another Alexandra F. parallel with talk of an affair with CIA director Dulles.

It's very hard to know if any of this is true or even possible, but if it's what enough people in Greece believe, you can see why she starts fights in tavernas.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

Yet another tragic Greek-Romanov parallel: Similarly it was already too late when panicked relatives (unsuccessfully) urged Nicholas to shut his wife away in a convent in order to salvage the monarchy.

Yes indeed the damage was done and nothing could be salvaged.

Its taken almost 40 years for the king to take up residence since and the Tatoi Palace left to rot as a ghostly reminder of the Greek Royal Family.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

The sad truth- this was a royal family that was never deeply embraced by the majority of Greeks. I think of the Greek royals as a failed transplant: Some roots grew and indeed took hold for a while, but they were neither strong nor enduring. To me, Frederike's negative impact on the wobbly Greek monarchy was as catastrophic as that of Alexandra Feodorovna on the wobbly Russian monarchy.

I don´t quite agree on this; having watched 100s of old greek movietones from the 1950s and 60s I know how poular both Paul and Frederica were - even more than Kings and Queens of other monarchies whose thrones still exist today.

Paul, but Queen Frederica even more so, have been tremendously hands-on, open and embracing people and when I see them interacting, I sometimes can hardly believe that this was a royal couple in the 1950s, where many other Royals very much kept their distance from "the people". In these old films you can easily see how much the greek King and Queen were cheered and mobbed wherever they went - not even at big splashing occasions, but also average engagements where many 100s of people were waiting eagerly to see the royal couple on normal working days.
When the King died, thousands of people were mourning him, waiting for hours to pass his coffin, lying in state. Some women fainted when the funeral procession passed by.
One must not forget that the greek monarchy was never driven out of the country, especially not under King Paul and Queen Frederica, but had to endure a coup while a young, unexperienced King in office tried to do something about it after he had sacked a very popular old PM against the majority in the greek parliament, and then decided to leave with his family himself. Constantine was not a reluctant Nicolas II. And his mother didn´t really play an influential part when he and Anne-Marie were on the throne - even though anti-monarchist propaganda would wanted to make people believe that. And that narrative still works today! The truth is, that Queen Mother Frederica pretty much retired from many activities (of course, she kept on doing royal engagements like visiting sporting events or opening new clinic wards etc.), after in the mid-1960s criticism appeared about her alleged influence on the monarchy.
And no - Queen Frederica is hardly comperable with the russian Tsarina! These 2 women had very different personalities! The one lady was totally overstrain in many ways of her role as wife of the emperor and as a mother, obviously living somewhere among the clouds, while the other one never lost her feet from the ground and has done a lot of good for the improvement of the life of many greek people.
I think there might be many reasons why F. became unpopular. Attacking the consort, especially when it was a woman, and you are not daring to rival the King in charge, is nothing new. King Paul always made his own decisions and his wife was both political as well as in private his substitute (there was also a big age gap between them) and it is known today that the Queen always looked up to her husband!
Then, Queen Frederica was born a german, which was also nothing that was helpful or would speak for her in the eyes of those opposed against the idea of monarchy. Still, she was popular with many greek people in the countryside. There also was a diffence between the average people in provincial Greece and some parts of the political elite in Athens, who accepted the monarchy because they really couldn´t do something about it, rather than supporting it.

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

And no - Queen Frederica is hardly comperable with the russian Tsarina! These 2 women had very different personalities!

But who was comparing personalities? My comparison was about impact: “To me, Frederike's negative impact on the wobbly Greek monarchy was as catastrophic as that of Alexandra Feodorovna on the wobbly Russian monarchy.”

Yes, one was an exceedingly charming extrovert and one a neurotic introvert, but they were both deluded, meddlesome fools who quite wrongly believed that -they- knew best.

[eya]

Official visit of King Pavlos and Queen Freideriki to Ethiopia back in 1959

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6diqjkLPj5Y

[eya]

Paris 1926. Atelier of the Dutch painter Johannes Antonius van Welie (Antoon van Welie).
Prince Pavlos of Greece (later King Pavlos I) poses to the artist for the last details of his portrait. Oil on canvas with dimensions 101.8 cm.X 74cm. Today it belongs to a private collection.


https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.n...3d&oe=5FFE37A6
https://scontent.fath3-4.fna.fbcdn.n...4f&oe=5FFB7F1C

[CyrilVladisla]

Queen Frederica arrived at the villa in Rome in 1973.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHWIA5qrS2o

[eya]

Like yesterday 6 February Queen Frederica died before 40 years.
A video i discover of her back 1955 as made a tour in West Macedonia and Ipirus in Greece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vk-GEmqaxXQ

[REAL COUNTESS]

I read somewhere Queen Frederika of Greece has done a lot for the people of Greece especially the poor and children. But for all her trying she was never well liked. Maybe because she was German and not Greek. Don't know if the Queen ever spoke the language of her new Homeland?.

[stef]

Queen Frederika spoke Greek perfectly, without an accent. All the people close to me, who knew Queen Frederika, they always say the same thing, that she spoke Greek perfectly.
Queen Frederika was appreciated in Greece,especially during the civil war, and in the north of Greece, curiously in Macedonia, in general throughout the north of Greece, and in Thessaloniki as well.

But it is obvious that there was a sector of Greek society that hated her, the first communists and people with ideals of the left, but also because of her German condition, and, I want to be honest, the Greek society of the time of Queen Frederika was very macho, they did not want a woman to stand out.

Queen Frederika was highly appreciated in the USA, for her solidarity work in the north, and because she accompanied her husband in front during the war against the communists, and this deeply attracted the attention of the Americans. But Greece was a very macho society, and this relevance that she had in the press of the United States, in Greece many sectors criticized her, they did not like that a woman was relevant.

[Prinsara]

How do you get to be so disliked that there are allegations you had children kidnapped and your son definitely has to campaign on the promise that you won't do anything political whatsoever?

What should she have done instead? Said nothing? Been completely uninvolved?

[maria-olivia]

During the important State Visit from General de Gaulle , during the banquet she tried to charm him but she falled completey. He said : Elle parle trop...

[stef]

The Greek communist party acted during the civil war with the ELAS guerrillas, these guerrillas had a very cruel action against the population, they assassinated entire villages and kidnapped children, these guerrillas had their bases in Albania, and the mountains of Yugoslavia. These children were kidnapped and separated from their families. The Greek communist party tried during the 1950s and60s and 70s to separate itself from the actuation of the ELAS guerrillas. If the communist party spreads information trying to deny that these kidnappings existed on the part of its guerrillas, and tries to blame Queen Frederika, distorting the historical facts, in its favor, in order to clean the image of Elas guerrillas, this is not credible.


In 1974 the communist party was legalized, before the referendum, as you understand, its campaign and the republicans were directed against the monarchy and against Queen Federika. The King had no means of defense in Greece, if he wanted to have chances in the future, and that the Greeks abroad, who were his only chance of success, should focus the campaign and discussion away from the communist partyandrepublicans. They had control of the Greek media, the King did not.He had to find a means against the campaign of the communist party, he had the support of no means in Greece, Greece was in 1974 a Republic, the monarchy was not allowed, he did not have a passport.

Greece was a democracy, a parliamentary system, you seriously believe that politicians like Karamanlis, Papandreou, Papagos, ... acted under the influence of Queen Frederika, really? . She had no capacity for decision.



hahaha, I'm hallucinating what I'm reading ... during the banquet of Gaulle, Queen Federika was not the protagonist, you must read the autobiography of King Constantine and old newspapers, the protagonist was the Greek First Minister Karamanlis, who talked too much, he interrupted the toast of King Paul, skipping the protocol, with very bad manners, he gave a political speech,talked much...and was interrupted by the shout of one of those present who said "Excess of zeal!" hahahaha