King Paul I (1901-1964) and Queen Frederika (1917-1981)

[wartenberg7]

Would you believe there might be some truth to this?! If so, Queen Frederica would be a totally different person I thought she was....

Queen Frederika’s Affair With CIA Chief Dulles | Greece.GreekReporter.com Latest News from Greece

I confess, I was shocked to read this, without knowing if this is just differmation or not...

[Nikolopoulus]

All the claims made in the book are totally false, and can be contrasted perfectly. This book speaks about one official visit of Queen frederica to U.S., after finishing the official visit, the Queen Federica stayed in the United States on a private visit. This book raises questions about the private visit , and based on this private visit invents facts to sell a book but missing the truth. The private visit of the Queen Federica was not mysterious as the book says. The private visit of the Queen Frederica was due to that one greek famous family of Shipowners invited to the Queen Federica to their house , they wanted that Queen Federica inaugurated their new fleet of boats, it was published in newspapers, I have one of this newspaper with private visit to the Shipowners Greeks . When I have read it, I am very ofended, because I have one newspaper with this private visit of Queen Frederika. But I imagine this has been normal, people think they can continue failing to the honor of the Queen Federica. But I'm glad, this is not true,the private visit of Queen Federica was no mysterious , it was published in the newspapers of the time.

[fandesacs2003]

Originally Posted by Cory

A documentary about the late King Paul I of the Hellenes will be presented to the public next year by the Greek Television :

Very interesting, but i doubt that project will be finalised, 2013 is finishing.
Who is the producer? If it will be the greek national TV, since they have been closed and became a very small organism, many projects have been cancelled.

[stef]

I agree Nikolaos.

hahah I do not think it would be Greek public television who would be publish a documentary which says that King Paul was a leader, a great father, a great person ... I doubt that public television would be the channel to publish that documentary hahahah I think it has been make to foreign tvs.

[An Ard Ri]

King Paul & Queen Frederika In Germany (1956)

King Paul & Queen Frederika In Germany (1956) - YouTube

Queen Frederika In USA (1958)

Queen Of Greece Visits Us AKA Queen Frederika In USA (1958) - YouTube

Greek State Visit to the UK (1963)

Greek Royals State Visit (1963) - YouTube

[CyrilVladisla]

In 1950 King Paul and Queen Frederika received a visit from Prince Philip and Princess Elizabeth of Great Britain.
King Paul was astonished that Philip was carrying on a lot of his English office work.
King Paul was astonished that Prince Philip spent hours drafting his own letters and memos in pencil.

[eya]

https://www.google.gr/url?sa=t&rct=j...uRwkqwl4JNlB-w

And because like today in 1938 married King Pavlos the Queen Frederica let us remember some old photos with their children.

[eya]

Like today 6 March 1964 King Pavlos died. In the video below Princess Anne Marie arrives in Athens to visit the sick king. At the airport they were welcomed by Crown Prince Constantinos with the prince Juan Carlos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dVNraM0EYs

Some videos of the King Pavlos to remember him




Visit in France to 1956 with Princess Sofia with them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6osIDabqUNU

Visit Yugoslavia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IovKIYQo0fg

Mrs Kennedy visiting greek royal family

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR3ZL6i5co0

Duchess of Kent 1947

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkGzTcN0GDE

[An Ard Ri]

September 1956 Visit to Lower Saxony by the King and Queen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX4FhbRKWww

[wartenberg7]

Beautiful clip - too bad it is without sound... Never knew the Crown Prince and Sophia joined their parents at this leg of this state visit!

[An Ard Ri]

I just noticed both of them on the end,I believe there were also members of Queen Frederica's family also present.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

I just noticed both of them on the end,I believe there were also members of Queen Frederica's family also present.

Yes, two of her brothers and her sister-in-law, Ernst August´s wife, were also there.

[WreathOfLaurels]

@carlfraley: I wasn't insulting Paul back on the other thread and I am aware of that letter, but actions count more than words and ambassadorial reports , foreign correspondents of the time and government ministers despaired of the Kings high handedness, seemingly arbitrary interventions, and bad habit of disregarding the official advice of ministers in favour of unofficial (and unaccountable) court channels; He was also unwilling to really delegate powers when needed.

James Edward Millers The United States and Greece has a lot to say about this as does most standard histories of modern Greece. Even Pauls main biographer half admits this was a problem. Examples include, blocking the government of general Plastrides (Plastrides had been involved with the overthrow of Constantine I and this smacked of a personal grudge), helping force out Karamanlis (that was not his place - he should have let the party caucus and the opposition do that), making speeches without checking content past the PM, leaving the country for extended stretches on what we're in effect social visits, questionable public statements on the military, and giving the impression of trying to conduct his own diplomacy.

A lot of this was really the result of the King coming to believe his own propaganda during the civil war of the 1940s along with his early experiences in the venizelos years.

There were mitigating factors: the slow and corrupt bureaucracy often made direct intervention necessary for getting past red tape and graft, and an unclear constutional set up regarding the exercise of exec power meant that a lot of this was justified at least in theory. I for one have never doubted Pauls good intentions and love of country, but such an approach speaks of Paul's paternalism and lack of trust in his country's governing class (understandable but still a problem).

Constantine was less paternalistic and more liberal than his father but he still picked up many of his fathers more unlovable approaches to kingship and it was commented on at the time and was a major factor in the eventual abolition.

[WreathOfLaurels]

Originally Posted by Vlaha Karatsokaros

...what political motive could anyone have to indulge in the homosexual past of relatively unimportant Balkan royals [namely Paul of Greece and Paul of Yugoslavia] and, in fact, not during their reign and regency, respectively, but way later, when everything about their lives was politically irrelevant.

For anyone who feels the need to look into the rumors any further there is a biography of Denham Fouts called The Best Kept Boy in the World by Arthur Vanderbilt, published in 2010. It's available on iTunes bookstore for $10 approx. Denham died in 1948 from the side affects of opium abuse, his Wikipedia article can give some more information.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denham_Fouts

It is worth noting that Paul's sexuality and behavior was considered proverbial in certain circles in the period but how true this is I have no idea. Rumors often takes on a life of their own - besides he wasn't the only Royal male to later settle down and at least try to be good family men, Louis Ferninand Prussia and George Kent and my homeboy King James 6+1 come to mind.

Also as a side note, being a MSM* does not automatically make you 'gay.' Bisexuality does exist and it's entirely possible to be sexually attracted to, and enjoy sex with, someone who you would not normally under other circumstances. Secondly, rumors of MSM (or for that matter WSW**) proclivities are a common smear tatic in societies with rigid views of correct gender roles and who are very heteronormative, like modern Greece*** (sorry about the gender and queer studies jargon but this is a topic calling for precise language, bear with me).

Constantine Karamanlis, for example, due to his difficulty relating to women, the fact he fathered no children, did not remarry after divorcing Amalia Kanellepoulos, and his social liberalism, was and is believed in some circles to have been gay, and his enemies often made a great deal of political capital of this, but I haven't been able to come across any compelling evidence. And one of the reasons for the 'folk hero' status of men like A-Pap and Aristole Onassis was due to their perceived virility and sexual conquests (although Ari may well have been the catamite of a Turkish General when he was in his teens in Symrna) So it's plausible that the rumors about KP are in the same category - an attempt to undermine him and his reputation. We will need more information to draw a more reasoned conclusion but the above points need to be kept in mind.

*Men who have sex with men
** Women who have sex with women
*** incidentally in 1952 Greece repealed its sodomy laws, well before a number of other western countries.

[stef]

First, the persons who wrote this on wikipedia, has changed their version when they has been discovered that their arguments were ridiculous. These people started this rumor writing on wikipedia that all this came from a book written in 1973, a book, this can be summed up in "all members of the handsome nobility were gays.". They spoke of a cruise by the greek islands at 1930, it is ridiculous because Geece was a dictatorship, second Greece was one Republic, and third because the Greek cruises were inaugurated in the decade of the 50 .... as you have seen these arguments were ridiculous. When they have seen that it was ridiculos they have changed their version.... and I think that it has been by the Documental about life of King Paul, you have to see it, and you will discover because the rumors are ridiculous ... Since the documentary was published, now they have wrote " is an unconfirmed rumor". it is not "unconfirmed rumor", it is one false and fabricated rumor.

[stef]

Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels

@carlfraley: I wasn't insulting Paul back on the other thread and I am aware of that letter, but actions count more than words and ambassadorial reports , foreign correspondents of the time and government ministers despaired of the Kings high handedness, seemingly arbitrary interventions, and bad habit of disregarding the official advice of ministers in favour of unofficial (and unaccountable) court channels; He was also unwilling to really delegate powers when needed.

James Edward Millers The United States and Greece has a lot to say about this as does most standard histories of modern Greece. Even Pauls main biographer half admits this was a problem. Examples include, blocking the government of general Plastrides (Plastrides had been involved with the overthrow of Constantine I and this smacked of a personal grudge), helping force out Karamanlis (that was not his place - he should have let the party caucus and the opposition do that), making speeches without checking content past the PM, leaving the country for extended stretches on what we're in effect social visits, questionable public statements on the military, and giving the impression of trying to conduct his own diplomacy.

A lot of this was really the result of the King coming to believe his own propaganda during the civil war of the 1940s along with his early experiences in the venizelos years.

There were mitigating factors: the slow and corrupt bureaucracy often made direct intervention necessary for getting past red tape and graft, and an unclear constutional set up regarding the exercise of exec power meant that a lot of this was justified at least in theory. I for one have never doubted Pauls good intentions and love of country, but such an approach speaks of Paul's paternalism and lack of trust in his country's governing class (understandable but still a problem).

Constantine was less paternalistic and more liberal than his father but he still picked up many of his fathers more unlovable approaches to kingship and it was commented on at the time and was a major factor in the eventual abolition.

About the interferences of King Pavlos, I do not agree with you, because the King was not who chose to the Primer minister, It was the parliament. Karamanlis calls elections, he knew that he would lose the election by his cases of corruption. The political party of Karamanlis, ERE, was said that it was funded by the United States, so here Karamanlis went to the Palace and asked the King Paul to work with him to help win elections .The King said no. This "no" of the king Paul , it did not liked to United States. King Paul was a king , he was not a politician. He did well , Karamanlis was who lost the elections not the king Paul. the elder George won the elections and Karamanlis lost it.
Constantino inherited the political situation, that's true, he did not received a good political situation, but I think it was not the fault of King Paul. This is true that King Paul had broad powers in diplomatic terms, but this was not the cause of the political crisis.Constantine was the victim of politicians willing to do anything to gain power.

[WreathOfLaurels]

First, the persons who wrote this on wikipedia, has changed their version when they has been discovered that their arguments were ridiculous. These people started this rumor writing on wikipedia that all this came from a book written in 1973, a book, this can be summed up in "all members of the handsome nobility were gays.". They spoke of a cruise by the greek islands at 1930, it is ridiculous because Geece was a dictatorship, second Greece was one Republic, and third because the Greek cruises were inaugurated in the decade of the 50 .... as you have seen these arguments were ridiculous. When they have seen that it was ridiculos they have changed their version.... and I think that it has been by the Documental about life of King Paul, you have to see it, and you will discover because the rumors are ridiculous ... Since the documentary was published, now they have wrote " is an unconfirmed rumor". it is not "unconfirmed rumor", it is one false and fabricated rumor.

I myself did not draw a conclusion on the veracity of the rumors, I was just pointing out a resource for those who would be interested for research purposes and was pointing out some context. You are free to disagree Stef, I myself am reserving judgement in the absence of further evidence and/or some kind of smoking gun.

About the interferences of King Pavlos, I do not agree with you, because the King was not who chose to the Primer minister, It was the parliament. Karamanlis calls elections, he knew that he would lose the election by his cases of corruption. The political party of Karamanlis, ERE, was said that it was funded by the United States, so here Karamanlis went to the Palace and asked the King Paul to work with him to help win elections .The King said no. This "no" of the king Paul , it did not liked to United States. King Paul was a king , he was not a politician. He did well , Karamanlis was who lost the elections not the king Paul. the elder George won the elections and Karamanlis lost it.
Constantino inherited the political situation, that's true, he did not received a good political situation, but I think it was not the fault of King Paul. This is true that King Paul had broad powers in diplomatic terms, but this was not the cause of the political crisis.Constantine was the victim of politicians willing to do anything to gain power.

You are free to do so. However, despite the demonization of the house of glucksburg is one of the pillars of the current Hellenic republics legimaticy, and that many of the 3rd republics luminaries are not exactly in a good odor at the present, the fact remains that some of these criticisms were grounded on fact. There are still two sides to every story and although the King's story has been deliberately marginalized for too long, not everything that has been leveled against them is entirely without merit. For these accusations to stick there are usually real grievances at work. The breakdown of communication between K and KP was mostly mutual and encouraged by a number of interested 3rd parties hanging around the court with the King's and Queen's ear, who took offense to K's swift acent and his rural background.* The Americans wanted a stable government and were often exasperated by the chaotic nature of Greek politics - not surprising given the amount of money that was being poured into the country, it's natural to desire a good return on an investment. I do agree that Constantine was a victim of these forces but I would also argue that it was also, to an extent, the sins of the father visited upon the son.

* this isn't about letting K off the hook for election rigging and back stabbing but trying to show what he had to work with - needless to say massive chips on each shoulder can be hard to work with under any circumstances

[WreathOfLaurels]

Helen Vlachos, proprietress of Kathemerini on her impressions of Queen Freddy;

Curly-headed and baby faced, the German bride of Crown Prince Paul had been recieved in Athens with indifference. She had been born princess of hanover in 1917, married in 1938 becoming "Greek" just one year before world war two crashed into the hear of europe. She did not at first possess any qualities of beauty or personality that could appeal to the greek people, and she was neither liked or disliked. She was quiet, young, in love with her husband, and she went on with the important task of producing children, first a girl, Princess Sophia, then a boy, Prince Constantine, then another girl princess Irene. Princess Irene was born in South Africa, during the years of war and exile - difficult years through which the young royal couple showed discretion, simplicity, and courage. But no one in Greece expected much of them, and when the plebiscite of 1946 brought royalty back to Greece, Frederica of all people, passed unnoticed.
Not for long.
It was during these after-war years and after-civil-war years that Frederica attained a new stature. I saw her work, and she was magnificent. Her extraordnairy dynamism had found an outlet, and she went through the destroyed towns and villages of greece like a beneficial tornado. She was brave and fearless and full of spirit, she travelled on roads that had proved mined the day before and were to prove it again the day after. She worked for days and weeks and months on end to gather the abandoned children, to find money, homes, help. She created an invaluable orgnasation for the rehabilition of refugees, she embraced th mothers, she gave shelter to the sick and the incapicated. She never stopped, she was tireless, she was clever, modern, realistic. She created centres which later became the heart of newborn villages. She organized groups of social workers who taught the villagers hygiene, dietetics, farming, weaving.
By the end of the four ties, queen frederica had gained an amount of religion, love, and respect that could have lasted her lifetime. She was for a short time in greek history a unique phenomenon, a well-loved queen, because if most kings of greece have has their moments of warm popularity, all its queens - amalia, olga, sophia, - have either been ignored or disliked.
If only she had stopped then, if she had sat back and taken a well-deserved rest, its probable both the history of greece and that of the greek monarchy would have been different.
But she did not stop. With that same energy and passionate interest she went into politics. And there also she disregarded the dangers and the loaded minefields.

Helen Vlachos, House Arrest, Boston MA, Gambit Inc. 1970, pp 99-101

[WreathOfLaurels]

Queen Frederica of Greece Archives - Royal Foibles

The Blog in question is mostly smut but I still thought you all would be interested in seeing this as an example of what some are willing and able to believe as long as its suits their prejudices.

[eya]

The Kings Pavlos and Freideriki with the first grandkid Infanta Elena

https://scontent.fath3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...a0&oe=58DDACB9