What does King Constantine do?

[Warren]

Before it gets too ugly, here's a warning: if this discussion is unable to be held in a civil manner, offending posts will be be deleted rather than edited.
This means no personal remarks, no snide comments, and no attacks on members regarding the current Greek constitution.

Warren
Royal Forums Administrator

 

[Philippe Egalite']

Phillip,
1.You commented about the illegality of the '74 referundum and mentioned that wrongdoings cannot be undone.A true system of justice could,would and should!

Response:
I did not say that the 1974 referendum was illegal for it was NOT. I indicated, however, that it was conducted under unequal circumstances but still much more favorable and just to the monarchist cause than the manipulated and fraudulent plebiscites of 1936 and 1946!
Finally, the welfare and well-being of a stable and prospering democracy of 11 million people takes precedence over some injustice done to one person, no matter who that person was and I am sure that the former King of the Hellenes would also agree with that.

2.You comment , that a referendum would only give the King 10-12% of the votes and that this has been aknoweledged by pro and anti monarchists alike.How do they know,what sort of regular polls have been conducted and what sort of positive and negative influences are at play?

Response:
That was based on a recent poll published by most Athenian daily newspapers. The poll was not specific to the monarchy (for there is NO such issue anymore) but pertained to the popularity of various institutions, political personages etc.

3.HRH Prince Pavlos of Greece did not marry his wife for those reasons I'm sure.Please let me know if he has told you otherwise.

Response:
I do not know the gentleman and I did not say that he married her for these reasons. What I said was that because the chances of restoration in the forseeable future are infinitely negligible, the former crown prince of Greece, was free to, and did, proceed with an unequal marriage. Said differently, if he had any chance of becoming king one day, he would have never proceeded with an unequal (morganatic) marriage, irrespective of who that person was.

4.You mention that H.M The King is welcome to live in Greece and even run for political office. How can he live in Greece as a Greek when your like deny him citizenship on the false pretence that he will not declare a surname? You have mentioned that their surname is Gluxburg or Beck.Show us any document (use a scanner) of the last 250 years,ever since the family became Dukes of Gluxburg(i think it is at least 500 years by the way) that calls them ie. Spiros Gluxburg rarther than Spiros of Gluxburg.

Response:
By European and Greek law, every European citizen can live, work and prosper in Greece, if she/he so chooses. Former King Constantine of Greece is a European citizen. He walks in and out of Greece as he pleases and he can also live in Greece permanently if he so chooses. Unconfirmed rumour has it that, recently, he or a member of his family bought a neoclassical house in the old district of Plaka under the Acropolis.
Now, if a surname without of, de, zu, til, af, di or whatever prefix is good for, and acceptable by, the sovereign of the United Kingdom, the oldest, the grandest and strongest continuous monarchy in Europe (Windsor-Mountbatten for the offsprings of Queen Elizabeth), it should be good for any other reigning or former monarch. After all, the sovereign of the UK takes precedence over them all.

5.You make the point of the titles of Prince,Princess,Diadochos and Vasilopaidi and use the lame excuse of constituitions < ed political comment: Warren > conventions and Spain and her Royal Family.To answer you in reverse order I know nothing about the Spanish nor do i care,sorry Spanish friends ).In terms of conventions the U.K does not even have a constituition their entire political system is based on conventions and their Royal sons/daughters are called Prince/Princess.

Response:
The UK, indeed, has no constitution and acknowledges titles of prince and princess [but even there, only for children and grandchlidren (the latter on the male line only) of sovereigns] and this is the country's absolute prerrogative. Other countries have constitutions and different rules and this is also their absolute prerrogative and internal matter, which no outsider has the right to dispute.

 

[ilias of john]

Phillipo,
Just a quick reponse because I have to take the kids swimming.
Firstly the British Monarchy does not take precedence over the other monarchies and secondly, does the Danish Monarchy claim a surname?
I'll talk to you later,

 

[Philippe Egalite']

Phillipo,
Just a quick reponse because I have to take the kids swimming.
Firstly the British Monarchy does not take precedence over the other monarchies and secondly, does the Danish Monarchy claim a surname?
I'll talk to you later,

Although your points are not relevant to the discussion about King Constantine, they pertain to history, thus deserving clarification.

Normally when reigning monarchs gather together, precedence is assigned by length of service/reign [the same seniority principle that applies to ambassadors]. However, in a historic sense and in terms of importance, the British monarch does take precedence over the other monarchs in Europe, as did until 1918 the emperor of All Russias. Indeed, we are familiar with the case of Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna, daughter of Czar Alexander II. When she married the second son of Queen Victoria, Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh and later of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, her father was insisting that she take precedence even over The Princess of Wales, later Queen Alexandra!!!

The Danish dynasts (i.e. descendants of King Christian X and Queen Alexandrine) do have a surname, Rosenborg, that traditionally assumed by all members of the royal family who relinquish or lose their rights to the throne and, thus, their rank and title. For example, the current queen's first cousins, sons of prince Knud (her father's brother), born princes Ingolf and Christian, became counts Rosenborg, in 1968 and 1971, respectively, upon losing their rights to the throne.
Going back in history, the last name Rosenborg was effected since the time of King Christian IX (the father of King George I of the Hellenes). His third son, prince Valdemar, who remained a prince of Denmark had three sons, Aage, who was later created count Rosenborg, Viggo who was also created count Rosenborg and prince Axel who married princess Margaretha of Sweden. Prince Axel had male issue, prince Georg of Denmark and Flemming who was later created count Rosenborg.
Therefore, Rosenborg, appears to be the de facto last name of Danish royals ever since King Christian IX.

 

[Warren]

The Danish dynasts (i.e. descendants of King Christian X and Queen Alexandrine) do have a surname, Rosenborg, that traditionally assumed by all members of the royal family who relinquish or lose their rights to the throne..

If Danish dynasts have a surname it may be Glücksburg, or even Oldenburg (the latter going back to the origins of the dynasty), but those members who have lost their rights and royal titles and become non-dynasts have traditionally - at least since 1914 - borne the title of Counts and Countesses af Rosenborg.

Rather than go off-topic further, the Danish Forum has a thread on the Danish Royal Family surname, which may have some relevance to the Greek branch of the Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glücksburgs.

 

[Charlotte1]

Although your points are not relevant to the discussion about King Constantine, they pertain to history, thus deserving clarification.

Normally when reigning monarchs gather together, precedence is assigned by length of service/reign [the same seniority principle that applies to ambassadors]. However, in a historic sense and in terms of importance, the British monarch does take precedence over the other monarchs in Europe, as did until 1918 the emperor of All Russias. Indeed, we are familiar with the case of Grand Duchess Maria Alexandrovna, daughter of Czar Alexander II. When she married the second son of Queen Victoria, Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh and later of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, her father was insisting that she take precedence even over The Princess of Wales, later Queen Alexandra!!!

The Danish dynasts (i.e. descendants of King Christian X and Queen Alexandrine) do have a surname, Rosenborg, that traditionally assumed by all members of the royal family who relinquish or lose their rights to the throne and, thus, their rank and title. For example, the current queen's first cousins, sons of prince Knud (her father's brother), born princes Ingolf and Christian, became counts Rosenborg, in 1968 and 1971, respectively, upon losing their rights to the throne.

Danish dynasts do not have a surname. Rosenborg is used as 'of Rosenborg' Counts Ingolf and Christian are Count Ingolf of Rosenborg and Count Christian of Rosenborg. Danish royals have stated that they do not have a surname as have the Norwegian royals who are descended from the same royal house. Norwegian Princess Martha-Louise stated around the birth of her first child that the child will carry its father's surname as " I don't have a surname"

 

[Philippe Egalite']

Danish dynasts do not have a surname. Rosenborg is used as 'of Rosenborg' Counts Ingolf and Christian are Count Ingolf of Rosenborg and Count Christian of Rosenborg. Danish royals have stated that they do not have a surname as have the Norwegian royals who are descended from the same royal house. Norwegian Princess Martha-Louise stated around the birth of her first child that the child will carry its father's surname as " I don't have a surname"

I know that but, at some point, all people adopt a surname when they cease to be royal. Inasmuch as Rosenborg is the name of a series of Counts, ie distant members of the royal family or less distant members who ceased to be royal due to unequal marriage, the fact is that all these relatives of the Queen are known and addressed cumulatively by the Press and the Danish people as Rosenborgs. And when their kids or grand-kids cease to be counts they become plain Rosenborgs, thus this is their de facto surname.

 

[lucien]

http://www.royalhouseofgreece.gr/surnamedocument.jpg

Courtesy dear Ilias of John,who posted the link at the Alexander Palace.

 

[vasilofron]

About the Surname

As the document from the office of the Queen of Denmark was posted here, linked from the web site "The Royal House of Greece" http://www.royalhouseofgreece.gr/surnamedocument.jpg

There is also the jugement of the Greek Supreme Court that says: "The Greek Kings never had a Surname" Ï ÂÁÓÉËÉÊÏÓ ÏÉÊÏÓ ÔÇÓ ÅËËÁÄÏÓ

This is very important because the myth of the "Glucksburg" MUST STOP!!!
The web site will be translated in english in a few days.

Also, we always must give courtesy to the source of the links, documents, photos & etc. that are listed here!

 

[Philippe Egalite']

I do agree with Vassilofron.
The former King of Greece applied out of his own free will for, and was granted, a Danish passport by the Danish Ministry of Justice following discssion in the Danish Parliament.
His surname (and that of his family) is, by Danish (and automatically European) Law, de Grecia, not Glucksburg and it must be respected as such.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

Recently I read that the Greek royal house was owner of a company aircraft, they were the maximum action, which was company? Remains of them?

 

[BELTRANEJA]

I have spoke here of the company aircraft, I want to specify that the company may have been of King Pavlo ...
The company performed in the decade of the 30, when Pavlo was not king,a specific engine airplane .. but I do not know what airplane it was.
I have read that family may have been maximun titular actions of company.
I do not know if it is a company manufacturing of planes or for commercial aircraft ... But it spoke of an engine airplane that in the decade of the 30 it was a novelty in the field airplane.
I do not know if it is of Royal Family, Now..

 

[Odette]

Belt I never heard of any connection between the King and aircraft companies.
Early on in the 70's he was working in some of the Shah's of Iran interests but there have never been any companies KC ever owned or ran.

 

[mariazil]

It is true that besides being friends the two royal families were involved in business. King Constantine had been in business with the late king Hussein, though I'm not sure if this is still on with the next generation of Jordan Royals. In any case the friendship is on and, remember Prince Felipe of Spain interrupted his honeymoon to attend a Royal wedding in Jordan, along with his mother and members of the GRF.

 

[Kai29]

King Constantine´s Interview in 2006

Our beloved King Constantine has given an interview in 2006 to the Greek Newspaper To Vima.

Is there anybody who hast this interview in English?!

My greek is very bad and it takes to 30 pages.

Or is there anyone who can translate me the full interview?!

Thx,

Kai

 

[Cory]

When King Konstantinos II is in Greece does he meet greek politicians?

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

All Greeks of a certain age and above recognize King Constantine when they see him. Likewise, he is familiar with many politicians simply because he is an avid watcher of Greek TV.
When in Athens, he stays usually at the Grande Bretagne, where he likes to socialize at the ground-floor Bar. Whenever it happens for a politician and King Constantine to be there, he usually greets and shakes hands politely with whomever he recognizes. I believe this is all the contact King Constantine has with the political world, except with Mr. Constantine Mitsotakis with whom he maintains a friendship. In fact, a year or so ago, Constantine and Anne-Marie visited with the Mitsotakises in Chania, Crete, the native place of the former prime minister.

 

[Nikolopoulus]

they never talk about politics, Misotakis is art collector Byzantine and Constantine collaborates with Orthodox Church in exhibitions of Byzantine art, but they never talk about politics. And King did not visited Misotakis, Constantine was visiting Crete, Misotakis saw it in the press, would look for the phone and call him and invite him to his house, but they never talk about politician

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

What I said was that the the Kings visited with the Mitsotakises, meaning here, talked with.
King Constantine and Mr. Mitsotakis maintain a friendship that has nothing to do with collecting of Byzantine icons or having an interest in the topic by either party. But I do agree that there is nothing of a political nature in their association.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

This is true, the King of Greece works with the Orthodox Church.
They are friends but I do not know if they are intimate or simple friend. In the interview in Chania, Crete, King said they did not spoke of politics. And at the wedding of Princess Alexia, some media reports said was present at the wedding an important Greek politician (they did not say the name, but was rumored that was Misotakis) .

 

[roimat]

No, at the weddig of princess Alexia Mitsotakis wasn't invited. I was there and i remember well. Only 1 member of the parliament, old friend of the King was there.

 

[BELTRANEJA]

I don´t found pictures, but it was said by some journalists that Misotakis was in wedding.
but I think that if they are intimate friends , the wedding of Nikolaos is a good moment for demonstrate this ,

 

[Vlaha Karatsokaros]

At a moment that the Mitsotakises are under fire from Right and Left, I doubt they would attend even if they were invited.
Insofar as the Greel royal weddings were concerned, I know that Alexandros Lykourezos, once a New Democracy MP, attended one.

At any rate, the Mitsotakis family are Liberals, in the European meaning of the word [neoliberals in American lingo], which implies that, unlike the Right and the Left, they are fierce anti-populists, pro-free-market economy and, like many of us, they would not put too much emphasis on whether the symbolic Head of State is hereditary or not.

 

[ckitis]

I agree with Sylvia.

Although, I agree that the people of Greece have a right to choose their own form of goverment. The fact is that the members of the GRF are who they are. Their titles are their birthrights. Is Queen Anne-Marie supposed to have a press conference and say to the world, "Oh please just call me Anne-Marie or Annie?" That would be insanely ridiculous. It is a matter of respect and dignity.

Regardless of what may happen in the years to come and whether or not in the future members of the GRF use their titles (or happen to be addressed as such), their bloodline will still remain as it is. Royalty is invested within a person and not within a goverment. It can exist even though the respective country of a royal house/family is now a republic, etc. An individual does not cease to be royal simply because there have been referendums and the monarchy has been abolished. They may no longer be reigning (and even in exile) and may no longer have official duties, but there ancestry is as it is as Syliva pointed out so very well.

I also agree with Sylvia that is very obvious that members of the GRF do not go around begging to be in the spotlight and to speak at certain events or become members of various charities. They are sought out on many occassions and they graciously accept which makes it clear that in many circles there presence is in demand and they are highly respected.

I agree with Jacqueline.
The King of the Hellenes is the King of the Hellenes because of who he is, not because of what he is or because of what he may be today.
Respectfully, the Crown Prince's wife is also a Princess and must use exactly that as her title.

 

[ckitis]

Translate

Our beloved King Constantine has given an interview in 2006 to the Greek Newspaper To Vima.

Is there anybody who hast this interview in English?!

My greek is very bad and it takes to 30 pages.

Or is there anyone who can translate me the full interview?!

Thx,

Kai

Yes indeed, I can translate into english the King's interview in Το Βήμα for you. Just send.

 

[ckitis]

When King Konstantinos II is in Greece does he meet greek politicians?

He has done so for many times in the past to meet politicians and clergymen over formal occasions of fullfilling his royal duties of former monarch. His visits to Greece are far more frequent today than what they used to be, and where initially desputed over so called misunderstandments, that he has also even moved in permanently to Athens from London.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

It is true that besides being friends the two royal families were involved in business. King Constantine had been in business with the late king Hussein, though I'm not sure if this is still on with the next generation of Jordan Royals. In any case the friendship is on and, remember Prince Felipe of Spain interrupted his honeymoon to attend a Royal wedding in Jordan, along with his mother and members of the GRF.

I'm not sure about Doing business for Hussein but Constantine did business on behalf of the shah in the 1970s - Asadollah Alam's diary has more information on this along with Constantine and Anne-Marie's friendship with the Shah and Empress Farah. Both Constantine, his brother in law Juan Carlos, and a variety of other European royals have done buisness with the Shah and then a number of other Arab kings over the decades - the most important since the down fall of the Shah have been the Saudi kings and most of these deals have been about property, oil, and weapons. A lot of these deals would in fact constitue influence peddling as these royals often act as middle men as a way of bypassing official channels and in sme cases sanctions. Read Andrew Scott Coopers The Oil Kings for more about this wheeling and dealing.

Constantine would also attempt to secure refuge for the Shah and his family in the UK after the Iranian revolution but without success.

It's been rumoured that Constantine speaks Arabic (I wouldn't be surprised if he did - he lived in Egypt as a child and said he was able to speak it then), which would make him very handy as a go between on matters of such importance. Besides the GRF have had long ties to the ME, and to the JRF in particular and Constantine's aunt, princess Catherine lived in Iraq in the late 40s early 50s with her husband and they got to know the Iraqi kings (cousins of the Jordanian kings) well. Arab oil is strongly tied up with Greek shipping and the Arab kingdoms invest heavily in Greece, so someone like C would be a perfect go between for Greece's shipping tycoons and the Arab oil kings.

Onassis wasn't interested in royalty although he made an exception for Rainer and Grace - he was into celebrities and simply happened to be wherever the wind was blowing - he was a long time financial backer of everyone's favourite premier turned president Karaminlis. I don't think it was anything personal per se as Ari's first wife was supportive of the monarchy and C was also very saddened by the death of Christina Onassis, esp when he was barred from attending her funeral in 1988. Niarchos, on the other hand was a massive royalty snob/fanboy, Constantine was the godfather and namesake of one of his sons (this one later died after ingesting enough cocaine for 25 men) and I think he may have been the one who brought that whopping sapphire for Freddy. He also helped arrange the cruise of the Agamemnon in 1954. However profit came first and many were happy to support the colonels government. A lot of the later friendship with C was about posthumous loyalty to Cs parents, a nostalgia for the royal court (always a great place to social climb and show off ill gotten wealth), and a desire to stick one to A-Pap. Come to think of it Onassiss anti monarchy thing may have been yet another way of one upping Niarchos - he was (in his own mind) so big he did not need to hob nob with people like that. These types are long on money and short on conscience.

Sorry about the rambling, it's late, it's Friday and well past my bedtime

 

[fandesacs2003]

King Constantinos was born in 1940. The GRF left Greece around 1941 and spent about three years in Egypt and in South Africa, both under British protection. It is impossible to him to remember Arabic language, unless he continued having lessons after their return in Greece. But never heard about the heir to the Greek throne taking Arabic lessons. I don't even know if he speaks French.
If he took lessons and learned the language after 1968, I don't know.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

King Constantinos was born in 1940. The GRF left Greece around 1941 and spent about three years in Egypt and in South Africa, both under British protection. It is impossible to him to remember Arabic language, unless he continued having lessons after their return in Greece. But never heard about the heir to the Greek throne taking Arabic lessons. I don't even know if he speaks French.
If he took lessons and learned the language after 1968, I don't know.

I personally don't think that C can speak Arabic fluently (there is another thread about the subject of C's languages in the GRF sub forum), more likely a few snatches and phrases here and there - most of the Arab kings either speak very good English (Hussein and Abdullah Jordan) or use translators (Saudi Arabia and the other assorted monarchs of the gulf). It's probably more about establishing trust and respect than anything else. One way or another, C has been on good terms with a number of these monarchs for a long time and it's a relationship that is both useful to him and to these kings.

There's also a religious dimension to this as well - a lot of Arab Christians are under the discipline of the Greek church and C is important to that (the church hierarchy don't acknowledge the president of Greece in this capacity, only the king) as a go between as well viz holy sites and pilgrims

I do know for a fact that one of the shipping magnates John Lastis spoke Arabic and Aristotle Onassis was on very cozy terms with the kings of Saudi Arabia (this worried the Americans who felt that Onassis monopoly on shipping Saudi oil was a threat to their energy supply).

 

[BELTRANEJA]

King Constantine speaks Arabic, he has been very close to the royal family of Jordan with whom he has had a great relationship and mantien currently. Last year , King Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie traveled to Jordan with Round Square School, King Abdullah stated that they were his guests. Pínce Hassan bin Talal of Jordan is a close friend of Constantino and Anne Marie, if was celebrated yesterday party in Porto Heli, it is sure that Hassan was invited. The relationship of Constantine extends to his children, Pavlos and Nikolaos provided that the Royal House of Jordan have celebrated the weddings of their princes, the king and Queen of Greece has been invited, the relationship with the Jordanian royal family has been always there (the friendship of the King of Greece with the Jordanian royal family was greater than wing Sha). Regarding the Greek shipowners, Onassis financed the Colonels and Niarcos, was monarchical but first was his company, the Vardinoyannis alike.the Shipowners transport the oil and Arab countries have oil, they are obligated to speak