King Haakon VII and Queen Maud

[W.Y.CII]

Not that I am suggesting bloodline isn't important at all in hereditary monarchy, Prinsara. I'm just saying that maybe different generations/people from that period and people from 2021 view Olav's legitimacy differently, not because the mindsets are different, but mainly because the information they had is different. (I just woke up and I hope my brain is working)

 

[JR76]

Prime minister Bondevik commented at the time that the parentage of King Olav was constitutionally irrelevant today. He was the result of a legal marriage, born to two loving parents (if anything he was closer to Haakon than he was to Maud) and he was part of the package that got elected by the Norwegian people.

 

[Prinsara]

Which is all well and good, but Marius is not even part of the Royal Family, and Olav's nephew King Baudouin in Belgium would have given just about anything to have a non-biological child as his heir, and that was never allowed. I'm not saying they'd throw the current NRF out, but if anything, they've gotten quite a bit stricter with the decades.

The rumors about Olav are more than 100 years old and have encompassed both of his parents, and it's only with the Bormann-Larsen variation that other people seem to have dug up the evidence in all likelihood he is their kid.

Without the mustache it is a lot easier to see a resemblance (look at his eyes). https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/8/2/858768-1547730257.jpg

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Prime minister Bondevik commented at the time that the parentage of King Olav was constitutionally irrelevant today. He was the result of a legal marriage, born to two loving parents (if anything he was closer to Haakon than he was to Maud) and he was part of the package that got elected by the Norwegian people.

Which is all well and good, but Marius is not even part of the Royal Family, and Olav's nephew King Baudouin in Belgium would have given just about anything to have a non-biological child as his heir, and that was never allowed. I'm not saying they'd throw the current NRF out, but if anything, they've gotten quite a bit stricter with the decades.

Marius is part of the Royal Family although not of the Royal House. Neither Marius nor a hypothetical adoptive child of King Baudouin were born of the legal marriage of their royal stepparent/adoptive parent, so their legal positions are not analogous to King Olav V.

The legal concept of legitimacy conventionally hinges on birth within a legally recognized marriage (in some jurisdictions, a subsequent marriage of the child's legally recognized parents or a legal decree may also give rise to legitimacy), but not on biological parentage (for which a biological father had no unimpeachable proof until the advent of DNA testing). That is why presenting the results of a DNA test was only a first step, not the conclusion, of the then Delphine Boël's case to invalidate her legal position as a legitimate daughter of Jacques Boël.

 

[Blog Real]

King Haakon VII in London (1951):

 

[eya]

"Today is 150 years since King Haakon VII was born

This is celebrated with chocolate that the royal confectioner has made especially for the occasion.
King Haakon was born on 3 August 1872 at Charlottenlund Castle outside Copenhagen as Prince of Denmark."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554831992918720514

 

[An Ard Ri]

Haakon VII of Norway went onto reign for 52 years
and despite not being Norwegian born is regarded as one of the greatest!

Norwegian of the Century #8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_of_the_Century

 

[Prinsara]

"Today is 150 years since King Haakon VII was born

This is celebrated with chocolate that the royal confectioner has made especially for the occasion.
King Haakon was born on 3 August 1872 at Charlottenlund Castle outside Copenhagen as Prince of Denmark."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1554831992918720514

They look delicious but I don't understand why there's an S with the H?

 

[JR76]

They look delicious but I don't understand why there's an S with the H?

My guess is that it stands for Haakon VII. Septem = seven in Latin.

 

[Prinsara]

My guess is that it stands for Haakon VII. Septem = seven in Latin.

That's probably a good guess, but why not just make it in his much more famous monogram with the numeral?

In fact, I tried to see if Haakon ever had a monogram with an "S", and it appears not. This one looks far more like Harald and Sonja's. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dual_Cypher_of_King_Harald_V_and_Queen_Sonja_of_Norway.svg

 

[wartenberg7]

That's probably a good guess, but why not just make it in his much more famous monogram with the numeral?

In fact, I tried to see if Haakon ever had a monogram with an "S", and it appears not. This one looks far more like Harald and Sonja's. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dual_Cypher_of_King_Harald_V_and_Queen_Sonja_of_Norway.svg

Is it proof this was supposed to be Haakon VII Monogram?! Normally, this was the joint monogram of the current King and Queen used for their 25th jubilee on the norwegian throne (don´t know if it was also used for Harald and Sonja´s 80th birthday celebrations in 2017...?)

 

[Prinsara]

I did find out that Haakon had an alternate monogram with "VII" instead of "7", but I'm going to guess that for whatever reason the chocolatier seems to have made them with Harald and Sonja's instead of the famous H7.

 

[Katymcwaity]

If Olav had not come along, what would have happened? Presumably the norwegians would have asked someone else? But who were the likely candidates?

 

[Biri]

Why did they have only Olav?
Did something bad happen to Queen Maud during or after the birth which made her infertile?

 

[Prinsara]

If Olav had not come along, what would have happened? Presumably the norwegians would have asked someone else? But who were the likely candidates?

His uncle Prince Valdemar. But he had a Catholic wife and grown children who wouldn't have adjusted so easily. There was also Prince Carl of Sweden before Oscar II fell into the Norwegian trap and declared all Bernadottes out of the running. Maybe Norway would have gone republican after all?

Van der Kiste's Edward VII's Children says "Names of princes from Greece and Spain were suggested, but in the end the Storting agreed that only somebody from the houses of Sweden or Denmark would be acceptable."

Why did they have only Olav?
Did something bad happen to Queen Maud during or after the birth which made her infertile?

She only had him after seven years of marriage with an adoring husband, and she'd never been pregnant before. 1903 till now has seen a LOT of speculation about whether Haakon or even Maud were his biological parents (I think one of the original theories was that he was supposed to be her unmarried sister Princess Victoria's bastard.)

Anyway, there is decent evidence now that he WAS their child, after all, but she obviously had a very difficult time conceiving him (being the tightest of the tight-lacers couldn't have helped, and what is known is that she seemingly had to go into a clinic in London in order to rest uncorseted in private, at minimum).

Maud's health was not robust, period. Despite being very active and very energetic, she suffered from neuralgia, poor hearing and poor eyesight, and a few other things besides. I imagine the novelty of Olav and a child and an heir was fine, but she probably didn't want to go through pregnancy and delivery again. Perhaps it wasn't judged good for her health.

Anyway, both of these sets of questions are addressed by Queen Mary's (who was Maud's sister-in-law) Aunt Augusta, who wrote to her niece "Motherdear [Queen Alexandra] will not like it [taking the Norwegian throne] and besides they have only got that one peaky boy."

 

[Prinsara]

Again, it's worth noting that while Olav undoubtedly inherited a lot from his mom (her nose and the lack of height and chubbiness of many a relative on her side of the family) and despite the first cousins thing, without Haakon's famous mustache it's a lot easier to see a resemblance to Olav. https://www.rct.uk/sites/default/files/collection-online/8/2/858768-1547730257.jpg

 

[Curryong]

After her father’s sudden death at Sandringham Queen Elizabeth, as we know, quickly returned to England from Kenya. It was reported at the time that she received King Haakon shortly afterwards, in mid-February. Does anybody know whether the King was on a visit to GB at the time, maybe even staying at Sandringham?

 

[Prinsara]

After her father’s sudden death at Sandringham Queen Elizabeth, as we know, quickly returned to England from Kenya. It was reported at the time that she received King Haakon shortly afterwards, in mid-February. Does anybody know whether the King was on a visit to GB at the time, maybe even staying at Sandringham?

No, I have no idea, but it was February in England and he'd given Maud's house back to George VI in 1937. I don't think there was any reason he was there already.

Haakon was George's much-loved "Uncle Charlie", Charles's godfather, and he must have been shocked his nephew and war host had died so suddenly. It's not necessarily that he came more quickly, just that he was received sooner due to age and being family.

 

[Blog Real]

A rare video of King Haakon VII's coronation in 1906.

https://www.abcnyheter.no/nyheter/2012/11/01/161878/106-ar-gammel-filmskatt-funnet

 

[Prinsara]

There is a guy in full uniform carrying Olav around. How cute. (And then Haakon himself hauls him, and not for ceremonial or symbolic purposes. ?)

Should be noted it's not the actual coronation, just things happening in connection with it. Future George V is clearly visible, and I feel like you can see Louise with a daughter and Toria at one point, but that might be May with Princess Mary, instead.

Apparently they were so radical and democratic in Norway at this point that Haakon was not addressed as "Your Majesty" but "Mr. King". I always wonder when that switched (and did it make Maud "Mrs. Queen"? ).

 

[JR76]

There is a guy in full uniform carrying Olav around. How cute. (And then Haakon himself hauls him, and not for ceremonial or symbolic purposes. [emoji2])



Should be noted it's not the actual coronation, just things happening in connection with it. Future George V is clearly visible, and I feel like you can see Louise with a daughter and Toria at one point, but that might be May with Princess Mary, instead.



Apparently they were so radical and democratic in Norway at this point that Haakon was not addressed as "Your Majesty" but "Mr. King". I always wonder when that switched (and did it make Maud "Mrs. Queen"? [emoji38]).

I don't know about Denmark (which Norway was a part of for centuries), but in Sweden varieties of Mr King (Herr Konung) weren't unusual in the old days. Neither were Mr Count (Herr Greve), Mr Baron (Herr Baron) etc up until the middle of the 20th.
Mr (Herr, Herre) in this context was originally reserved for men of the nobility and the clergy and would be more correctly translated as "Lord".

 

[Prinsara]

I don't know about Denmark (which Norway was a part of for centuries), but in Sweden varieties of Mr King (Herr Konung) weren't unusual in the old days. Neither were Mr Count (Herr Greve), Mr Baron (Herr Baron) etc up until the middle of the 20th.
Mr (Herr, Herre) in this context was originally reserved for men of the nobility and the clergy and would be more correctly translated as "Lord".

Within 40 years they'd definitely switched to "Deres Majestet", although interestingly, Mr Lord King is still an option. https://web.archive.org/web/2007070...Raad/Andre_emner/Titlar_paa_norske_kongelege/

It doesn't answer how Maud (or now Sonja) is meant to be equivalently addressed, though.

 

[Prinsara]

I picked up Queen Alexandra's latest biography to see if there was anything interesting about Harry and Charles in it, and other than Alix calling them that, frequently , it is a long, dense book with little things here and there. For instance:

The protracted honeymoon may not have been entirely about being on honeymoon and at least partially if they'd gone back to Denmark in early September....their apartment wasn't ready and they would have been stuck by themselves with his mother for a month or two. Quoth Alexandra:
"which Freddy [her brother] himself said would be a mistake the first time of Harry's coming home, to which I quite agree" and to George "so then Harry & Charles might have remained alone with dear Swan! Tell Papa so if he mentions this to you."

As usual I'm not sure whether I feel very sorry for Tante Louise (Alix was indeed biased) or whether she brought this on herself. Or both.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did Prince Carl have to otain the approval of his grandfather King Christian IX of Denmark to be able to become the King of Norway?

 

[Prinsara]

Did Prince Carl have to otain the approval of his grandfather King Christian IX of Denmark to be able to become the King of Norway?

According to Haakon VII: The Man and the Monarchy by Greve, not really.

There was a meeting of the Danish cabinet including the King, Carl's father, and Carl, where they all discussed him potentially accepting and how they were all in favor of a referendum, and then after the referendum went through the Danish president asked for Christian's assent pro forma to Carl taking the throne, which he gave "in a loud voice".

The approval was not a weighty matter nor hard to get.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Did King Christian IX of Denmark attend the coronation of King Haakon VII?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Did King Christian IX of Denmark attend the coronation of King Haakon VII?

You can read more on the Coronation of King Haakon VII of Norway, 1906

https://www.royalcourt.no/artikkel.html?tid=35242

https://royalwatcherblog.com/2020/06/22/coronation-of-king-haakon-vii-of-norway-1906/

 

[Blog Real]

Coronation King Haakon VII:

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Princess Maud with the infant Prince Olav (Prince Alexander) 1904
http://www.rct.uk/collection/search#/58/collection/2807461/princess-maud-with-the-infant-prince-olav

 

[Prinsara]

Maud writing to a friend slightly before that. "Charles has been at sea 4 months & I have been very lonely all that long time. Luckily I have my small Boy to distract me"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1486911914114437128

"and he is now getting just more interesting and notices everything, he is a great joy & blessing to me & is much admired by everyone & really is a lovely child — I rather dread taking him to Copenhagen (in that vile climate wh. we all enjoy so much!) but I shall have to go there probably in the spring."