Ukrainian Royalty

Kamanets · #1 10-15-2006, 04:59 AM

I was asked a question in a discussion about the Ukraine recently as I study it and it concerned royalty in the Ukraine.
Ukraine never had an established royal house like other countries around it in the past,; they elected Hetman's from the noble familes.
A hetmans power was pretty much absolute in everything from what I gather and have read, complete control of army and navy , elect all officials and judges and was in control of the law and the justice system.
Yet they were not Monarchs in the sense of the word and behave appalingly as most did.
So where does that put their decendants?What social ranks would they have as compared to traditional European families as mentioned in the Almanac De Gotha etc
Some have suggested that the Kievian Princes who were Hetmans were called Crown Princes, but the area is a grey one.
What would be the correct naming for their decendants?
There are a still few people alive who have a direct lineage to the greatest Hetmans of the Ukraine.
After all royalty was ever only a ruling set of families controlling a land and its people to the exclusion of others.

magnik · #2 10-15-2006, 10:36 AM

About Hetman - quite good two from Wikipedia with links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetmans...inian_Cossacks

Kamanets · #3 10-15-2006, 09:22 PM

Yes I have read the Wikipedia discussions on Hetmans.
While being rather informative , they don't really answer my questions on social position.
Recently a direct ancestor of a Hetman visited the Ukraine, Hryhoriy Rozumovskiy and visited his old families lands with the Minister of Culture.
It is hard to classify their social standings.
Hetmans like Bohdan Khmelnytsky,Petro Doroschenko,and Ivan Mazeppa stand out in history in their abilities and indeed are related to many Royal Houses of Europe as of now.
Doroschenko for example retired as Duke.
Where does that leave their descendants I am not sure, but I do know some of them who would like to revive their ancient heritage but are unsure of how to do this.
What would be a first step in this inititive assuming they have proof of genealogy?

magnik · #4 10-16-2006, 04:20 PM

I don't know if you know it (I posted it on one of Russian's thread) or if it help somehow
http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/royal2.htm
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ua_htman.html
http://www.ukraine.com/cities/sumy/
About genealogy: http://genealog.home.pl/ and http://geneweb.inria.fr/roglo?lang=en

Few links about Ukrainian Princes, Hetmans etc.
http://www.geocities.com/prysjan/in_41getmans.html
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki...inian_Cossacks
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com...H/E/Hetman.htm

Kamanets · #5 10-16-2006, 09:25 PM

Hi Magnik.
Well it would indicate that the decendants of Hetman Doroshenko for example are really related to the royal houses of europe by marriage(Natalie Goronchova for example) and I think are entitled by decendancy to claim their titles.
This would be great I think if these old families were able to claim their lands again and do some good for people as a name means a lot these days.look at princess Mary who married into a family as a commoner and people give her support for her philanthropic endeavors.I think we need more people like her to make this world a better place.
I will pass this information on that you have supplied, because although they know their direct decendants they have not thought about using their social ancestry until now of which they are rightly part of.

Toledo · #6 10-16-2006, 10:57 PM

From what I read above seems the territory that is now Ukraine has been most of the time separate nation-states, like Italy and Germany before their unification?

Royalist0007 · #7 02-26-2007, 04:22 PM

The last Hetman of Ukraine was Pavlo Skoropadsky,who ended up being forced into exile after a reign of a few months.He was killed during an allied air raid in early 1945.

Here's an article; Pavlo Skoropadsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

His daughter is considered to be the heir to his title,but he did have a son who was styled the Hetmanich,but his fate is not yet known.

Aidan.

Warren · #8 02-27-2007, 05:29 AM

Thanks for this Aidan. The 'Hetmanate' was very short-lived, but the article doesn't make clear whether it was intended at its inception to be an hereditary position, or whether the 1918 Ukrainian state was 'monarchic' in nature. Even if the Hetmanate had managed to survive a few more years, it was inevitable that Stalin would have put an end to it and forcibly annexed the Ukraine into the Soviet empire.

Royalist0007 · #9 02-28-2007, 12:53 AM

Warren,the 1918 Hetmanate was very monarchic in nature,as Hetman Skoropadski was a former aide-de-campe to Czar Nicholas II.

After the overthrow of the Hetmanate,a lot of Ukrainian monarchists ended up fleeing to Canada,which is why there is such a strong Ukrainian minority in Canada today.

There is an active Ukrainian monarchist movement called the United Hetman Organisation,but its profile has been much lower in recent years.

Aidan.

Kamanets · #10 04-13-2007, 11:17 AM

What about a family that has a direct line to Hetman Petro Doroshenko?
This family has kept under the radar for a very long time, but now they are wanting to leave this exile of anonimity and do something positive with their name and titles.
Ukraine is in crisis I think and the more people who step up to the crease to help their country of origin the better I think .Commendable actions.
They have been mulling this over for the last 10 years and I am close to them and looking at how best to help them into their rightful place.
I think anyone with a history like this should stand up and be counted.

Royalist0007 · #11 04-27-2007, 10:12 AM

I've never heard of Hetman Petro Doroshenko.Please tell us more about him.

Aidan.

Kamanets · #12 09-14-2008, 06:36 PM

Yes a Hetman's family is a heraditary title in both Ukraine and Poland.
In Poland for example once granted by the Tsar it could not be revoked under any circumstances and all served until their deaths and many did as such.
A Hetman in teh Ukraine had absolute power as would a king.
They controlled the army , made laws and were the chief justice of the land and the head of the Law.
The most notable Hetmans in Ukraine were elected by their aristocratic peers Khmelnytsky, Doroschenko, Mazeppa, the latter educated and groomed by the former to be a leader.
They hade huge estates and principalities and their decendants still hold title as such passed down the generations and this remains true to this day.
Many don't use them, but some still do like teh Skoropadsky family who are very distantly related to Hetman Skoropadsky , yet maintain the title.
Other have a more direct ascendency and are considered more so.
The head of a Hetman family is considered a Crown Prince from what I have been told and other members are granted Dukeships and Lordships depending on their birth order.
This continues to this day in Ukraine and if you can show that you are a direct descendant of a prominant Hetman , especially the three previously mentioned, then you are allowed to hold and use such titles, 'tho not many do

James Frankcom · #13 05-28-2010, 09:48 AM

I believe the President of Ukraine when being sworn in holds the Mace of the Hetman and (symbolically at least) is the elected Hetman of Ukraine for his tenure.

Hereditary Thane · #14 06-18-2010, 02:05 AM

I assumed that elected leaders in monarchical positions such as the hetmen of the Ukraine and the kings of Poland had no powers to elevate their children to royal status because of their father's position. As with all elected monarchies once the hetman is deceased his family return to their family or territorial titles within the nobility from which their father was elected.

Cory · #15 07-26-2010, 11:34 AM

There was a plan to have a Habsburg King for UKraine at the end of the first world war?

Kasumi · #16 07-28-2010, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

There was a plan to have a Habsburg King for UKraine at the end of the first world war?

That's correct. There were plans to enthrone one of Habsburg archdukes in Lemberg (modern Lviv), a capital of Halychyna. Halychyna was not a part of Ukraine then, it belonged to Austria, and later to Poland.
The plan was not popular among the Greater Ukraine (central and South-Eastern part of the country) due to the fact that the people of Halychyna are not Ukrainians ethnically.
The idea of monarchy is not popular in Ukraine nowadays. The latest Gallup polls show 7% support for monarchy (Russian monarchy).

doroshenko · #17 01-22-2011, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamanets

What about a family that has a direct line to Hetman Petro Doroshenko?
This family has kept under the radar for a very long time, but now they are wanting to leave this exile of anonimity and do something positive with their name and titles.
Ukraine is in crisis I think and the more people who step up to the crease to help their country of origin the better I think .Commendable actions.
They have been mulling this over for the last 10 years and I am close to them and looking at how best to help them into their rightful place.
I think anyone with a history like this should stand up and be counted.

Hi there,

Thank you for the kind words about my family name. I am one who would like to "step up to the plate", but very unsure how to do this. Being an Australian Citizen with Ukrainian Heritage, I am planning to Visit Ukraine in September 2011, to discover my family history, and visit relative who I have not even met before.

I am not sure if all Doroshenko family members are in some way related to Petro & Mikhail but would love to find out the bloodline. I have no idea how to do this, and would hope that someone could help.

Thank you for this forum, it is very interesting.

For further information on Hetman Petro Doroshenko, please visit: http://doroshenkofamily.wordpress.com/petro-doroshenko/

Mike
www.doroshenko.com

Kasumi · #18 10-21-2011, 01:18 PM

In the early 1990s, the Ukrainian Embassy in Paris before the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs official request to change the inscription on a tombstone.
Instead of the words "Anna, Queen of France, Princess of Russia," the Ukrainians proposed to write "Anna, Queen of France, Princess of Ukraine".
Full article in French
Google translation into English

More info
Kievan Rus'
Anna Yaroslavna of Kiev

Benedict XVI · #19 12-31-2011, 12:04 PM

But does ukraine have a real history of it's own monarchy.

Ceallach · #20 12-31-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royalist0007

His daughter is considered to be the heir to his title,but he did have a son who was styled the Hetmanich,but his fate is not yet known.

Aidan.

Besides the daughter Maria Motrezor (says wiki), an alleged natural son of her deceased brother Danilo Skoropadsky also claims it - Borys Danilovitch Tuhaibei Skoropadsky. So that I guess is the dispute - male vs legitimate. Her brother Danilo was poisoned allegedly by the KGB and his fiancee miscarried. The one who claims to be his son is from another woman and would have been a baby at the time.

The Heirs of Europe: SKOROPADSKY (UKRAINE)