The Balkan Monarchies: Restoration and Restitution

[espejor]

Hello! What do you think about an eventually restoration in Balkans?

I have heard that Serbia is the most probably to be again a Monarchy.

I have heard too that Romania has possibilities too.

What do you think about that?

Regards!

[fearghas]

Personally I think it is too late. There were strong possibilities after the fall of communism but for various reasons they were missed. Serbia I think is the most likely, Alexander is the one making the most effort at doing so. Bulgarias King has now been tarnished and I think the Romanian family made a mistake when the Kings son in law decided to stand for election.

[Dina]

Well, without getting too political, I think Bulgaria will remember the reasons they supported Simeon before he became prime minister and forget recent history soon enough, now they are established in the EU. Their royal family (Boris III's memory in particular) is quite beloved, even if it is a newer house, in the scheme of things.

[maris]

In order to access the survey please click the following link

SURVEY: Royal Property Restitution in the countries of South-East Europe

I am based in Bucharest and closely follow the news in the region. Many articles pertaining to the royal properties, published over the last few months since the economic crisis has started to bite in south east Europe, indicate that in Bulgaria and Romania the state tries to claw back the royal properties, which were reinstated to the former sovereigns as part of the democratisation process of the last two decades that led to the EU membership. There was an apparent goodwill period from the governments of these Balkan countries toward their respective royal families that lasted until 2008, which looks now more like a ploy to gain trust from the western countries in order for the local elites to fulfil their aspirations in gaining membership in western organisations. Now, as the EU/ NATO etc. membership has been achieved, the Romanian and Bulgarian governing elites do not need their royal families on their side anymore. The crisis also has dramatically reduced the important wealth amassed over the last two decades by the top echelons of the Romanian and Bulgarian society, which have now started to prey on whatever is close to hand to recoup some of their rapidly eroding fortunes. The royal properties are some of the most obvious targets, as these elites, originating in the old communist apparatchiks, have a long anti-royalist tradition. The future looks uncertain, as the Romanian and Bulgarian governing upper classes do not need anymore their royals in the pursuit of their short or long term objectives.

Royal Property Restitution in the countries of South-East Europe

Maris

[Ruhije]

In Albania some property restoration has been made to the late HM King Leka in Tirana (former villa palace of HH Princess Senije Abid Zogu) and in Durres (former summer palace of HM King Zog).
The Tirana Palace is now The Royal Court of Albania and official residence of HRH Crown Prince Leka II Zogu.
The Durres summer palace is in semi-derelict state of disrepair, awaiting future restoration.
Crown Prince Leka II Zogu now works as an official advisor with the Albanian Government, and has been in several ministerial Departments.
Other relatives of the extended Zogu Family living abroad since their original exile are awaiting process of other property restoration cases and claims, houses and estates of pre-1939 family ownerships.
Some exiled relatives have chosen not to make claims on old family properties.
Ruhije - UK

[Benedict XVI]

Do any of you know if Bosnia and Croatia have any history of monarchies of there own? Not foreign ones.

[Ruhije]

Originally Posted by Benedict XVI

Do any of you know if Bosnia and Croatia have any history of monarchies of there own? Not foreign ones.

Only that Bosnia had some kind of ancient or medieval Nobilities or Kingdoms.
Then later ruled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.
In recent and modern times Croatia (and Bosnia too) was either ruled as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and then as part of Yugoslavia under the Serbian Dynasty.

[Ruhije]

Interesting BBC Magazine article on recent abolished, restored and restituted Royals and Monarchies - includes Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania.

WHAT DO MONARCHS DO NEXT?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7426349.stm

[Cory]

Romania, Serbia and Montenegro are the countries where Monarchy has real chances to be restored soon.

[Ruhije]

Originally Posted by Cory

Romania, Serbia and Montenegro are the countries where Monarchy has real chances to be restored soon.

Yes, with Montenegro looking like the strongest candidate with much more official Government acknowledgment and restitution and diplomatic status and position.

Albania has also gone quite far in the restitution, honour, and diplomatic status and role of The Zogu Royal family and Crown Prince Leka II.

There is a good topical link discussion ongoing to this subject in the Royal Forums General Discussion section - Monarchies most likely to be Restored - thread.

[Ruhije]

Originally Posted by Ruhije

Interesting BBC Magazine article on recent abolished, restored and restituted Royals and Monarchies - includes Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2hi/uk_news/magazine/7426349.stm

Apologies! Link correction -

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | What do monarchs do next?

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by Ruhije

Only that Bosnia had some kind of ancient or medieval Nobilities or Kingdoms.
Then later ruled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire.
In recent and modern times Croatia (and Bosnia too) was either ruled as part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and then as part of Yugoslavia under the Serbian Dynasty.

The last young king of Bosnia was executed in 1463, his wife ended up in a Turkish harem, his younger siblings were taken from their mother (his step-mother) a princess of Hercegovina, along with her younger brother, to Turkey and raised muslim by Ottoman royals. The heirs to both Bosnia and Hercegovina became beys (lords) in the Ottoman empire and married Turkish princesses and had issue. There ends the story.

It is possible that since beys like nobles might keep good geneology that an heir could be figured out and make a claim. Zog made a successful claim for Albania 460 years later, although he was still a noble within Albania. However the family may have never returned to Bosnia and 548 years in Turkey, not so much Bosnian anymore. It depends on who it is, where they are, and whether they even know they are the heir.

[Ceallach]

The last king of Croatia died in 1090 without living issue or at least male living issue (daughter's fate unknown), and then his wife ruled for a year before giving the country to her brother the king of hungary. This led to war and instability with the Croatian royals who rallied under a local Knin royal (imagine german royals trying to replace an extinct Prussian empire with another german king instead of foreign rule). Why Knin? - unknown but he may have just been the most powerful local royal or may have been related to the Croatian king. Croatia was made up at the time of a bunch of smaller kingdoms and they eventually agreed to make Croatia a kingdom within Hungary with their kingdoms intact and recognized, and a rotating royal ban (governor) from their royal membership as ruler.

Eventually Hungary and Croatia both became part of the Austrian empire and lost much control to Austria and the expanding Ottoman empire with many royals losing wealth and property. The Croatian ban Zrinski (Subic), his brother-in-law Frankopan (Krck), son-in-law Rakoczi of Transylvania, and other Croatian/Hungarian royals/nobles plotted rebellion to free all of Croatia and Hungary but failed and were executed in 1671. The two families had controlled most of Croatia but at the time had left 35% of Croatia that was unconquered - the other royals' land had been had previously conquered. Both families trace back as local royals to the time of the last king of Croatia. After the rebellion, Croatian bans were mostly foreign. When Croatia became free the Zrinskis/Frankopans had their bones returned to Croatia and all are held in great esteem. If Croatia was to pick a monarch, I expect it would come from these royal families.

The Rakoczis line survives but not in Croatia as far as i know. A Zrinski fled to greece and his descendants have returned to Croatia.

Count Louis Doemi de Lupis, who founded the Croatian noble association claims descent from the Frankopans and Subic/Zrinskis from the 15th century and added Frankopan to his family name. It is allegedly recognized by Italy, but not by Croatia, the Croatian noble association and led to his exit from them. When his daughter Paola married a member of the extended British royal family Lord Nicholas Windsor - Frankopan was left off the engagement notice and invitations. If it is legit, it may not be the best claim (greek returnees? or another) - hence the rift with the nobility association.

However, as far as I know neither Louis, the greek returnees, or anyone else has made a claim as heir - they just like to point out their interesting royal ancestors.

Not an expert - feel free to corect me.

[Cory]

The albanian Crown Prince does not speak about the return of Monarchy and neither does Prince Nicholas of Montenegro.

[Ruhije]

Originally Posted by Cory

The albanian Crown Prince does not speak about the return of Monarchy and neither does Prince Nicholas of Montenegro.

The various levels of restitution that the returning Balkan Royals have received from the Governments has created a middle-ground situation of half-way or compromise official and diplomatic status, with property restitution and often official roles for the Royals.
This somewhat satisfies for many (Royalists and Monarchists included) a balance between Restitution and Restoration.
I have posted much more on this regarding the Zogu Royal family of Albania, in the two Albanian threads section.

[USCtrojan]

Originally Posted by Cory

The albanian Crown Prince does not speak about the return of Monarchy and neither does Prince Nicholas of Montenegro.

I find this to be an interesting fact as I have always thought that the Romanian, Serbian, and Bulgarian families were not alone in working with their homelands and hoping for a restoration. Interesting indeed.

[Alexandros Hellas]

Good evening everyone, my question is if anyone knows the names of those members from Mano family of Greece that were Princes of Moldavia and Wallachia during the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans.

Mano family at the time was one of the strongest Phanariot families of Constantinople with many members sent to the Principalities to serve us overlords.

Kind Regards

Alexander

[Cory]

No member of this Greek family reigned in the Romanian Principalities.

[Alexandros Hellas]

Thank you for your imminent reply... besides the Royal marriages of the 20th century do you know any previous titles of nobility held by the family ?

Thank you for your time

Kind Regards
Alexandros

[Ceallach]

Originally Posted by Alexandros Hellas

Good evening everyone, my question is if anyone knows the names of those members from Mano family of Greece that were Princes of Moldavia and Wallachia during the Ottoman occupation of the Balkans.

Mano family at the time was one of the strongest Phanariot families of Constantinople with many members sent to the Principalities to serve us overlords.

On wikipedia it says Ileana Manos, wife of Prince Charles of Orleans, is descended from the Bogdan-Mushat family who once ruled Moldavia, and the Sutzu Phanariot that ruled Wallachia. The Manos are also descended from other notable families from those regions: Callimachi, Racovitza, Cantacuzino, Ghika, and the greek Mavrocordatos family whose did have influence in the area. Maybe that is the confusion, they are descended from Princes of Moldavia and Wallachia just not ones named Manos.