The Ancient Kings of Israel and Judah

[LadyGabrielle]

O.k. I am not knowledgeable with middle eastern royalty so can anyone tell me if there is a non reigning family for israel or would it be part of a larger kingdom? thank you for the info.

[Warren]

The Hasmonean Kingdom was the last independent or autonomous Jewish kingdom. It ended in 37BC when Herod took power as a client king of the Roman Empire.

[Marengo]

AFAIK the last Jewish king was King Herod Archelaus who ruled from 4BC to 6AD and who ruled over Judea, but as Warren says above only as a vasal of Rome. I have no idea what happened to the dynasty itself after this though.

[Lenora]

I 've always been fascinated by Ancient History.More or less investigations had been done in the matter of Ancient Egypt History,but the history of biblical kings is veiled in mystery.Not so many researchers,no descendants line studies found.
Foe example,the King David of Ancient Israel ,who was not only a warrior,but at the same time an artist who wrote the lyrics to many songs or the story of his son,the wise king Solomon,whose supposed son was the king Menelik of Ethiopia.

[norenxaq]

there are various sites as well as books relating to davidic descendants. how reliable they are is another matter entirely.

[AureliaC]

Seeing a Jewish Royal Family will be interesting.

[RubyPrincess168]

There is an interesting book called Bloodline of the Holy Grail, The hidden lineage of Jesus Revealed by Laurence Gardner with a forward of Prince Michael of Albany. I don't think I ever finished it though.

[auntie]

Well there are Jewish nobility like the family Rothchild, Baron Hirsch and others, but they have no connection to King David and his descendants.There were also the Hasmoneans, the leaders and self made kings in the times of the ancients Greeks. Being Jewish myself, I do know that the Royal house of Judah was known well into Byznatine times, and there was a head of the house known as "Nasi" But today we are scattered to all corners of the earth, and very few today have lineage to the ancient kings of Israel

[Lenora]

Thank You for the answer!But it means that there are those few people who could (or pretend to) trace their lines back in the Ancient times,though it seems difficult to grasp it

[auntie]

Originally Posted by Lenora

Thank You for the answer!But it means that there are those few people who could (or pretend to) trace their lines back in the Ancient times,though it seems difficult to grasp it

Yes, there are very few families who have a lineage untill the house of David or the ancient Nasi. though a written lineage is virtually nonexsistent due to persecution, expulsions and various exiles, the last being the destruction of European Jewry in the second world war, the holocaust. Still some families are known to descend from royalty, and you have to prove you are from that family, and haven't changed your name to gain that status as being descended from the house of David.

[norenxaq]

avoid anything by Gardner as he creates lineages as well as misinterprets those that exist in reality and mythology to fit his theories

[Warren]

Originally Posted by RubyPrincess168

...Bloodline of the Holy Grail, The hidden lineage of Jesus Revealed by Laurence Gardner with a forward of Prince Michael of Albany.

Further to norenxaq's post above, there is no legitimate title of "Prince Michael of Albany". It's made-up, a nonsense, an easily-disproved deception.

The only 'recent' Prince of Albany (apart from Prince Leopold, Duke of Albany) was Leopold's posthumous son, Prince Charles Edward (1884-1954), Duke of Albany from birth and from 1900, reigning Duke Karl Eduard of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.

[Elisheva]

I am Jewish and living in Israel's capital Jerusalem. For more about Jewish royal lineage the Talmud might be a better guide. In it also the lineage of Jesus is explained (without calling him by his name, but you can conclude it by deduction).

[Domhangairt]

Originally Posted by Elisheva

I am Jewish and living in Israel's capital Jerusalem. For more about Jewish royal lineage the Talmud might be a better guide. In it also the lineage of Jesus is explained (without calling him by his name, but you can conclude it by deduction).

After the fall of Jerusalem, and the exile to Babylon, the David dynasty was represented by the EXILARCHS, exiled monarch-pretenders with a semi religious/semi political role who represented the exiled Jewish community in Babylon. The Exilarchs were descended from a brother or uncle of King Zedekiah, the last king of Judah. Zedekiah, and all his sons were executed.

I have read that the David dynasty is represented today by a small clutch of orthodox Jewish families, including the Dayan and the Peretz families.

In 2007, or 2008, a huge gathering/ reunion of Davidic families took place in Jerusalem and Y-DNA was compared. Only the orthodox Rabbis know who the true Davidic families are. Their pedigrees have been meticulously recorded by the Rabbis from one generation to the next, despite persecution. DNA will sort the wheat from the chaff.

[auntie]

Quite correct what you write. The Nasi was the line of the house of David after the destruction of the second temple, being in Roman times and around 70 years after the birth of Jesus. Special care was taken to preserve this line of Nasi, the most famous being Rabbi Yehuda Nasi

[Domhangairt]

Originally Posted by auntie

Quite correct what you write. The Nasi was the line of the house of David after the destruction of the second temple, being in Roman times and around 70 years after the birth of Jesus. Special care was taken to preserve this line of Nasi, the most famous being Rabbi Yehuda Nasi

Many thanks for your input. I was unaware of who represented the David dynasty after the fall of the second Temple. I would asume that the Dayan and Peretz families are members of the Nasi ? When did Rabbi Yehuda Nasi live?

According to American Pastor Clint van Nest, a former ordained Baptist minister who converted to Judaism (now a Rabbi), Jesus' real name was Yehoshua. He was an orthodox rabbi of the House of David who campaigned against the Pharisees and against general corrupt practices at the Temple. He made enemies who conspired with the Romans to have him crucified. However, Van Nest claims Yehoshua survived his crucifiction (he was unconscious when taken down from the Cross), was nursed back to health, and escaped (tomb door open), and went into exile. He possibly lived in the large Jewish community in south of France (today called Provence, then part of Gaul). My uncle, Major Ian Granger, researched the life of Jesus for several years. He believes that he is buried in the Pyrenees mountains between France and Spain. All this was kept secret by the Roman Church. Those, especially the Cathars of southern France, who knew the secret and who defied the authority of the Church were killed in their thousands, and their properties expropriated during the 13th-14th centuries, on the orders of Pope Innocent III. Van Nest claims that Yehoshua founded a Jewish sect in Jerusalem called the Netzarim. The last Paqid or leader/judge of the Netzarim was executed by the Romans and replaced by a bishop called Marcus. Van Nest has revived the Netzarim and now claims to be the 16th Paqid. He was not initially accepted by the orthodox Jewish community, but has more recently received recognition from the Chief Rabbi of Israel. Van Nest claims that the Netzarim were instigators of the Jewish revolts in A.D. 70 and A.D. 134? He now lives in Israel with his wife and daughter Yael.

[Smart]

There seems to be an overall confusion in this post over the modern House of David.

To begin:
1. Davidic lineage is very well-documented amongst Jews, we know who is of the line of David and who is not. For most of history following the destruction of the Temple, the Jewish people were led by Exilarchs (the Reish Galuta), these individuals were known as Nasi (Prince), they held a political position, and at various points in history, even had autonomy for the Jews of Babylonia.
2. Most descendants of David are actually Ashkenazi, because Rashi was of the line of David, and many Ashkenazi people trace their line back to him. One well known Davidite of modern times was the Lubavitcher Rebbe of blessed memory.
3. There are no formal "families" per say of Davidites, and unlike the Priests/Kohanim, they usually didn't adopt special surnames to show their status. The number of Davidites is usually given around ~600,000, the number of Priests ~500,000, and then number of Levites ~2,000,000-4,500,000. (the first number representing confirmed Levites, the latter being patrilineal Levites who either don't know they are, or only have a Levite surname [Levin/Levitz/Levi/etc].

The rest of Jews belong to the other Tribes, I for one, am of the tribe of Benjamin.

In some rare cases, where male converts were accepted (which was rare, due to persecution), the child and all his descendants would thus not be Israelites, and wouldn't have a tribe. It is impossible to know how many of the non-identified tribe Jews are truly patrilineally converts, simply because all Jews, irrespective of descent are considered descendants of Abraham.

We also have evidence many Jews matrilineally descend from the tribe of Shimon/Simeon, this of course, doesn't mean they belong to that tribe. Just that, due in large part to the near extinction of it, very few people can actually claim descent from Simeon. There's a small possibility, that during the Roman period, the remnant of Simeon were considered part of the tribe of Judah, meaning even male Judahites, could be theoretically of the line of Simeon, but of course, this would be only in the cases (rare as they are) where Jews don't have their full genealogical records.

I for one, not only know the names of all my ancestors, but also their locations and in some cases (especially the last 400 years) their secular occupation [if they had one].

I come from a Rabbinical family, thus I have many Rabbis in my ancestry.

As to who Yehudah HaNasi is? He is the compiler of the Mishnah, and lived around 135CE, the same time as the Bar Kochba revolt against Rome. His name in English is "Judah the Prince", and he is regarded as a great sage of the Mishnaic period.

[Warren]

Discussion of religious or theological issues which have no relevance to the thread topic have been and will continue to be removed.

Warren
TRF Administrator

[auntie]

very good! the whole world is going mad! at least here the issue of religion and belief should be put aside!

[Adam Neira]

The Jews had a monarchy lasting just over 420 years from Saul, David and Solomon right through to Zedekiah. A new monarchy/command and control structure/organisation with its HQ as the House for All Nations/Temple Mount/Noble Sanctuary could encompass : Jerusalem; The State of Israel; Judea and Samaria/The West Bank; Gaza; Jordan; Syria; Lebanon; Egypt and Saudi Arabia. The current GDP of these areas is $1.6 Trillion. If peace unfolds in the region this can grow by at least 5% p.a. over the next thirty eight years.


Two good references on the subject of Jewish monarchy are...


"A Short History of the Jewish People" by Cecil Roth, 1936.


"The Special Status of the Davidic Dynasty" by Rav Mosheh Lichtenstein, 5772.