Royalty of New Zealand


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Aiden

I dont mean to argue but I of all people should know how the moari King movement works because I am part of the moari royal family. My Great grand father is the second moari King, King Tawhiao. The Present King is My Cousin Twice removed. The Moari King movement was established so that Te Whero Whero, The First Moari King, would govern over all Moari people.
The Moari King or Queen is officially noticed as the King or Queen of the Moari People. Te Heu Heu still has to answer to the Moari Sovereign like how it was seen at Queen Te Atairangikahu's funeral, he still ecknowledged her as his Queen . Although he is a Paramount cheif He doesnt Have power of the Moari Courts and Moari Justice system as does the monarch.
Tuheitia is a King, as was his mother and predeccessors of her. They were monarch.
King and Paramount Cheif have totally different meaning.
They still have the lead of their tribes but at the end of the day The King is The King as it is in England, Tonga, denmark ect.

Mark Onehi
 
Last edited:
Mark Onehi said:
The Moari King or Queen is officially noticed as the King or Queen of the Moari People. Te Heu Heu still has to answer to the Moari Sovereign like how it was seen at Queen Te Atairangikahu's funeral, he still acknowledged her as his Queen .
Click to expand...
The fact that we refer to the Maori King or Queen, and based on Mark's statement that the Paramount Chiefs show deference to the Maori Sovereign, should settle the matter as to who is recognised as pre-eminent.
 
Meaning of 'Paramount Chief'.

Mark,the meaning of 'Paramount Chief' is the same thing as a tribal king.There are many examples of Paramount Chiefs of countries under British protection who became kings after independence.The late King Moshoeshoe II of Lesotho was the Paramount Chief of Basutoland from 1960 until 1966,when Lesotho became independent within the British Commonwealth.King Sobhuza II of Swaziland was the Paramount Chief of Swaziland prior to 1967,when Swaziland became a protected state.Swaziland became fully independent within the British Commonwealth in 1968.

To say that King Tuheitia Paki is a monarch like the Queen of Great Britain is actually incorrect.His position is actually very similar to that of King Goodwill Zwelithini of Zululand.

What was intended & what actually occurred are 2 different things,as far as the Maori King Movement goes.The intention was to unite all Maori tribes,but in reality,they are not a united nation.

< ..ed political comments - Warren ..>

Aidan.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aidan

You are indeed right about all moari tribes coming together but as it was said on the national and international television broadcast and at turangiwaewae the Paramount cheifs of New Zealand or recognised Te Arikinui Dame Te Ata i arangikahu as their QUEEN. 10 paramount cheifs maybe more all stood at the end of her casket and recognised her for her position. Each and everyone of them all said "Your Grace, our Queen". If I remember correctly there is a saying which brought the negotiations of electing a moari king to a slight halt in 1889 i think it was, New Zealand cannot be ruled by 2 kings, Tawhiao Moari King 2 proved that saying wrong. "He mahi, He inoi, he moe, he mahi ano" that was his saying was Ï work, I pray, I sleep and then I work again", this is what proved that saying wrong. This is why QERII recognised the Maori Queen as a queen. King Tuheitia is indeed king of tainui but as it said on the monument erected in east Taupo, KING TE WHERO WHERO WAS ELECTED KING OF ALL MOARI PEOPLE AS IS HIS DECENDEANTS>

Mark Onehi
 
Mark,I am very aware of how influential & how popular Te Arikinui Dame Te Ataairangikaahu was.Despite the intention of the Tainui monarchy of uniting the Maoris,this has largely failed to a large degree,because the Maoris are so tribalised in terms of their identity.

It is possible to have one native monarch being under the suzerainty of another native monarch.In this case,it is Paramount Chief Tumu Te Heu Heu of Ngati Tuwharetoa who is under the suzerainty of King Teiheitia Paki of Tainui.Both Maori monarchs are in turn under the suzerainty of Queen Elizabeth II.

Do you see where I am coming from?

Aidan.
 
Aidan
Yes I do see where you are coming from, But as I said in previous messages King Tiheitia Paki is still the King of Moari hence the Saying (Moari King) Cheif Te Heu Heu of tuwharetoa does not carry that title.
This is where I am coming from, Maori King and P/Cheif have difference in meaning.
Although the Moari King does not carry the title of "His Majesty" he is still recognised as the King.
Te Heu Heu is indeed the Paramount Cheif of Tuwharetoa I will agree with you on that but in saying that I strongly believe not only on my behalf but my position in the Kahui Ariki King Teheitia Paki is King. Wether it by of Moari or just of Tanui he is still the Moari King.
This also fit into the same desciption as The Cook Island Royalty of whom my Grandmother was once the head of, they are also protected under the Commonwealth but in turn They respect and love their Queen or Pa Ariki. QERII is the Head of State but The tribes of all the Cook Islands do not recognise her as the Queen.

Mark Onehi
 
Mark,there is a big difference between being the king of a nation & being the king of a tribe.The term 'Maori King,in my view,is strictly incorrect,as there isn't a Maori nation as such.There are something like 72 tribes,so that means there is something like 72 Maori nations.

The Cook Islands Maoris are in a similar situation.There is also not a single Cook Islands Maori nation.They are very insular in terms of their identity,as they identify themselves as Rarotongans,Penrhyn Islanders,& Aitutakians,etc.
Pa Ariki is the Paramount Chieftainess of Rarotonga,but she cannot claim to be the Cook Islands Maori Queen,as most of the other islands in the Cook Islands also have their own chiefs.

Do you see where I am coming from?

Despite the fact that I am a British New Zealander of Scots descent,I am a very fierce Royalist who believes very strongly that New Zealand needs to have a House of Chiefs with a role very much like the Fijian Great Council of Chiefs to a certain extent.That way,the Maoris can play a very strong role through their hereditary chiefs,kings,& paramount chiefs.

Aidan.
 
Wel, Aidan. Your post makes a lot of sense and I agree with yur views. Hope that some day, New Zealand culd have a strong monarchy.

Vanesa.
 
Yes Aidan I do see where you are coming from. But what you said about my home land is in part wrong. I to am a fierce royalest and I am part of both Moari and Cook Island Moari royal families. Once upon a time the Cook Islands was an absolute Monarchy and the Monarch then was Queen Makea and she was indeed just a paramount cheiftaness and there was other cheifs but Queen makea was the Head of the executive coucil, Queen of avarua and in turn the Queen of The Cook Islands. The Pa Ariki is the Head of the House of Ariki and she and she alone makes the law final. The Cook Islands is a semi independant state and is to apart of the commonwealth. This I know because it is my mother who is now the Pa Ariki or formally Recognised as the Rarotongan Queen. I will one day take that position because I am the oldest. I am known as the Ngaine Purotu or the Oldest son of the Pa Ariki. As far as my position goes in the Kahui Ariki I adimntley hope that one day New Zealand becomes a self ruling state. I thank you for the thread you gave me, I had a good say of what I believe on it.

Mark Onehi
aka Maakaruaitimetuaanga Kokaua Ariki III
 
Last edited:
Mark,the Cook Islands Maori chiefs have no constitutional functions in the strict sense of the word.It is the Queen's Representative (a viceregal equivilant to Governor or Governor-General) who assents to legislation that is passed by the Cook Islands Parliament,not Pa Ariki.The House of Ariki may be called upon to advise on cultural & traditional matters only.Beyond that,they have no constitutional power.

Aidan.
 
Maori King

I have noticed that the concept of the Maori King is not clear in its function and authority. I will try and explain how the organization works and how it is treated throughout Maoridom.

The Maori King movement or Kingitanga was established to attempt to unite Maori against encroaching settlers who were land hungry and had the backing of an aggressive central government administration. Potatau Te Wherowhero although not the first choice for the job, finally accepted after much prompting to accept the role. He was chosen as he was the Upoko Ariki of his tribe and had extensive genealogical links to all the major tribes and their lines of aristocracy.

The catalyst for the establishment of the Kingitanga came as a response to the English Monarchy and was supported by the Biblical precedent of Israel establishing a royal line under King David.

The Maori King although respected throughout Maoridom does not hold a comprehensive pan tribal title or authority. Large tribes such as Ngati Porou have their own Upoko Ariki and aristocracy to draw on. This complex relationship is perfectly summed up in the following article from the Maori magazine Te Ao Hou...or the New World.

http://teaohou.natlib.govt.nz/journals/teaohou/image/Mao62TeA/Mao62TeA033.html

The institution of the Upoko Ariki or Paramount Chief in English is a strictly hereditary role as personified in Tumu Te Heu Heu of Tuwharetoa and sits within lines of descent from important and often eponymous ancestors such as Porourangi of Ngati Porou and Apanui Waipapa of Te Whanau-a-Apanui. They are supported by the Rangatira who can be of varying degrees of aristocracy. Often they are acknowledged through hard work and the skills they can bring in managing the affairs of the tribe. This is immortalized in the following Maori proverb:

"Ina te mahi, he rangatira."

Which roughly translates as, by his deeds a chief is known.

Basically, Maori society as accurately described above really composes of dozens of separate "nations" with their own lines of Upoko Ariki and Rangatira. The Maori King is one and although he is held in high esteem by most tribes, (as was his mother and predecessor the late Te Arikinui Dame Te Atairangikaahu) he does not hold (as his title alludes to) a full pan tribal position or title.
 
Last edited:
Heeni, the would be Maori Queen

It is well known that Tuheitia was not groomed for the role of the Maori King. His older sister Heeni had been groomed by their mother the late Maori Queen for the role and had regularly accompanied her on official visits.

My uncle attended the Council of chiefs who decided the successor to Te Arikinui Te Atairangikaahu and advised that it was the will of the people to return to a male leader.

Here is a picture of Heeni (middle) with Princess Pilolevu and Princess Siuilikutapu at the funeral of the King of Tonga in her official capacity as the sister of Kingi Tuheitia. During this visit to Tonga she was feted as a high ranking visitor and was honored not only in the order of wreath laying(she came after the following: The King of Tonga, The Queen Mother, the Crown Prince, Princess Pilolevu, The Crown Prince of Japan, The Duke of Gloucestor (Queen Elizabeth the II's first cousin and representative) but also was given the task of cutting the royal ladies hair. This is an ancient mourning rite paid as a tribute to the deceased. Tongans cannot touch the head of royalty, therefore the honor was bestowed on Heeni.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3251/2851352423_e2a85d074d_o.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maori Kings and Queen

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Potatau.jpg/220px-Potatau.jpg

Kingi Potatau Te Wherowhero

May 2, 159 to June 25, 1860

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/TawhiaoNLA.jpg

Kingi Tawhiao

25 June, 1860 to 26 August, 1894

http://www.tiritiowaitangi.govt.nz/images/keypeople/mahutatn.jpg

Kingi Mahuta

August 26, 1894 to November 9, 1912

teratamahutaT135.jpg


Kingi Te Rata

November 9, 1912 to 1 October, 1933

http://www.tiritiowaitangi.govt.nz/images/keypeople/PAColl-5469-031.jpg

Kingi Koroki

1 October, 1933 to 18 May, 1966

http://www.treaty2u.govt.nz/images/settling-claims-main-5.jpg
Te Arikinui Te Atairangikaahu

23 May, 1966 to 15 August, 2006

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3147383958_6174af6fbd.jpg?v=0
Te Arikinui Tuheitia

15 August, 2006 to present
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Today the Maori King was at the university of waikato for a breakfast in celebration of his 54th birthday, before he flies to New York for former Prime Minister Helen Clark's welcome as the new UNDP administrator.

Breakfast: Tuesday April 21 | BREAKFAST
Ends at 2:46.
 
Thank goodness for that. The Second report there. Any speculation of abdication does not reflect upon full cohesion for the Maori Nation.
 
Elected Tainui officials are demanding the Maori King, Tuheitia Paki, open his books and reveal details of his spending.
Concern about the king's spending and the tribe's governance has mounted within Tainui over recent weeks and now tribal members want answers.
In an unprecedented move that directly challenges the king's authority, some members of Tainui's parliament, Te Kauhanganui, want the books of the king's office made public to quell suspicions over excessive spending.
The annual budget for King Tuheitia's office is $1.2 million compared to $250,000 when his late mother, Dame Te Atairangikaahu, reigned. The money is provided by the tribe.
Stuff.co.nz
 
It has become painfully apparent to all that Kingi Tuheitia and his demanding family were not the wisest choice for the role. However, he is what we have to work with. So let us all pray that Kingi Tuheitia and his misbehaving family get a clue before too much damage is done.

If only they had chosen his sister...Heeni.

71931609.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No1_Saint said:
It has become painfully apparent to all that Kingi Tuheitia and his demanding family were not the wisest choice for the role... If only they had chosen his sister...Heeni.
Click to expand...

Are there any procedures of re-election of the Maori ruler if he misbehaves or something? Can you please tell more about the Princess Heeni Katipa? I haven't found much in the web about her, just this article and your post # 42 (above in this thread).
 
Kasumi said:
Are there any procedures of re-election of the Maori ruler if he misbehaves or something? Can you please tell more about the Princess Heeni Katipa? I haven't found much in the web about her, just this article and your post # 42 (above in this thread).
Click to expand...

There is not much known about Heeni. I know that she is good friends with the sister of the King of Tonga, Princess Pilolevu as they attended the same school in Auckland.

Pic courtesy of Wikipedia Commons

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Phaedra's_cut.jpg/500px-Phaedra's_cut.jpg

In regards to re-electing the position while the incumbent is still alive, there hasn't been a situation like this before. Thankfully most of the behaviour has been kept in house, but with the emergence of the financial concerns bubbling to the surface, I am not sure how long that will last for.

IMHO - there will not be any formal public action taken. However, privately there may be significant figures within the kahui ariki(close relatives of the King) who may have to ask him to improve his public image for the greater good. I will be interested to see if any of this is publically acknowledged at one of the 39 Poukai (formal tribal gatherings) he must attend every year. This is a very public arena where important tribal issues are discussed and debated before the King.

Essentially this is a until death position. Which is unfortunate. There were concerns about him from the beginning. He cannot speak the language, his knowledge of tribal lore is pitifully inadequete. His knowledge and relationships with anyone of significance in any other tribe is also wanting. His inaugural speech was a shambles and his dress sense is just wrong. he turned up to a military parade at the King of Tonga's coronation in a hawaiian shirt. What were other VIP guests wearing? Tuxedos and military attire. I cringe everytime I see him or his family anywhere.

FYI - that article that you referenced is grossly misinformed and full of incorrect facts.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dear No1_Saint,
Thank you so much for your immediate reply full of useful information.I'm all astonishment to know that the king does not speak the tribal language. The photo is very interesting too. I believe it was taken during the Tongan king's mourning period, wasn't it?
Unfortunately, there is a lack of information about the Princess in the web. It's a pity the article is incorrect. Thanks for commenting on the article too.
 
I understand the current paramount chiefly claimant of the Maori nation is a lady. Though this office is not recognized by all the Maori tribes, The Maori queen is acknowledged by the Samoan and Tongan royal families. I am happy to be corrected if any New Zealand correspondents have more current information.
 
Hereditary Thane said:
I understand the current paramount chiefly claimant of the Maori nation is a lady. Though this office is not recognized by all the Maori tribes, The Maori queen is acknowledged by the Samoan and Tongan royal families. I am happy to be corrected if any New Zealand correspondents have more current information.
Click to expand...

The lady you are talking of, Te Arikinui Dame Te Atairangikaahu was Queen of the Maori Nation from 1966 until her death in 2006 when she was succeeded by her eldest son Tuheitia Paki as the new King.

The position of Māori monarch was constituted in 1858 by the chiefs of many tribes and has been vested in the hereditary chiefs of the Tainui Iwi who pledged through the first Māori king, Pōtatau Te Wherowhero, to guard the position.
 
Tainui, the Maori King and the Kingitanga have been in the headlines for much of the last two weeks, particularly after Tania Martin, the chairwoman of the tribal parliament presented a report critical of its executive board's spending and was sacked by King Tuheitia.- The Tainui Saga

Waikato tribe Tainui is being taken to court over the sacking of an elected official by the Maori King after a critical report she wrote about the tribe's finances. - TVNZ

Tension grows in Tainui parliament - NZHerald
 
Maori King's uncle dies

Tione Haunui, the uncle of King Tuheitia, was 71.
Mr Haunui was the great great grandson of King Taawhiao, the second Maori King.
He served three generations of the Maori monarchy, incluindg King Tuheitia, his mother Dame Te Atairangikaahu and her father King Korokii.
A descendant of Waikato-Ngaati Maniapoto iwi and a senior spokesperon for the King, Mr Haunui will lie in state at Waahi Marae in Huntly. - Radio New Zealand
 
I read that Teriu Le Mon - Amber Petty's ex - is a Maori prince. Is that correct, does anyone know?
 
Le-Mon descends from Maori royalty, but he is not a Prince.:)
 
Avalon said:

Since I am not remotely an expert (or even amateur) on the New Zealand Royalty, I asked Warred and Mandy to help to answer your question. Here is Warren's response:



Hope it answers your question why the New Zealand Royalty is in Non-Reigning Houses thread. :flowers:
Click to expand...

I know that this is an old issue, but i would just like to point out some facts. Within a western context it is not a reigning house...however:

1. The Maori King reigns over the Tainui confederation of tribes
2. The Tainui confederation has it's own Parliament and constitution
3. The Tainui confederation has over 500 million dollars in assets making it a significant emerging economic force
4. There are 39 Marae or tribal settlements that are loyal to the King and he proceeds on what would be best described as a royal progress where tribal issues and grievances are discussed and dealt with.

The Kingitanga has been in existence for over 150 years within a western framework, but was drawn from a preexisting royal lineage. He may have no power officially within the New Zealand government system...however within the Maori world he has immense power and is the current head of a reigning house.

Within New Zealand there is no official position for the Maori King....however there is a parallel society within New Zealand that is Maori which has it's own social structure and hierarchy that has been in existence for hundreds of years.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Rossina
State visit to Australia & Official visit to New Zealand: November 23-30, 2016
2
Replies
34
Views
7K
salma
S
muriel
  • Locked
Duke and Duchess of Cambridge: Tour of New Zealand - April 7-16, 2014
30 31 32
Replies
937
Views
110K
JessRulz
JessRulz
Henri M.
Dutch Court, Courtiers and Friends of the RF
2 3 4
Replies
92
Views
51K
Somebody
Somebody
J
Queen Elisabeth Of The Belgians (1876-1965)
2 3 4
Replies
97
Views
43K
maria-olivia
maria-olivia

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom