Royal House of Georgia 1: Ending 2020


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Status
Not open for further replies.
If in this family prevail rules like from Middle Ages, it's better for Georgia not to become a monarchy again.
Micheil Saakashvili is perhaps not a perfect president, but his reign at least will end someday.
 
Biri said:
If in this family prevail rules like from Middle Ages, it's better for Georgia not to become a monarchy again.
Micheil Saakashvili is perhaps not a perfect president, but his reign at least will end someday.
Click to expand...

Hello Biri

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this but, most deposed monarchies retain the rules established while they were still in power. Once restored to the throne, the new Royal Government will be able to set new rules. Don't forget that the last time the Royal House of Georgia was in power, it was an absolute monarchy. The Royal House has maintained, throughout the 20th century and today, that when restored it will be a Constitutional Monarchy.

It is in a similar position as with the Imperial House of Russia and others.

Finally, on your comment regarding President Saakashvili... All I can say is that this is a royalist forum so, don't expect to find much support for this position.

One more thing: Presidents "hold office" but do not "reign", only monarchs do.
 
Biri said:
I heard that Princess Anna had two daughters from her first marriage: does anyone know their names and age?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is right, she has two daughters the elder is Her Royal Highness Irine Bagrationi-Gruzinski (born 2003) and younger is Her Royal Highness Mariam Bagrationi-Gruzinski (born 2007). The children by the Georgian Royal historical rights carry the royal surname, this was also supported by the Patriarch of Georgia.
Let me remind to all again that in Georgia law of succession was Roman/Byzantine/Persian but not a salic law ! This kind of succession allowed for different sons and even a daughters to succeed to the throne.
 
Last edited:
Can you confirm or deny the report that HRH Princess Anna is expecting her first child with Prince Davit? :whistling:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Both branches of this family married within each other to have stronger ties and get more support to becaome a monarchy again.Let's see if and when this couple Prince David and Princess Anna can produce a heir/heiress.
 
Benjamin said:
Can you confirm or deny the report that HRH Princess Anna is expecting her first child with Prince Davit? :whistling:
Click to expand...
I can not confirm, but if it so I will be glad, because every expected child in the world is pleasant and this one will not be exception.

Next Star said:
Both branches of this family married within each other to have stronger ties and get more support to becaome a monarchy again.Let's see if and when this couple Prince David and Princess Anna can produce a heir/heiress.
Click to expand...
I agree, but a question is that even in married couples it is necessary to define and reveal the status of each of them. All over the world these conditions are identical and Georgia in it also not an exception.

Iberia del Caucaso said:
This is a shortened version of the rare interview given by HRH David Bagration-Mukhranelli which was published in the Georgian Times several years ago.
Click to expand...
It is a rough mistake calling prince David as a royal highness.
representatives of Mukhranski line belong to high nobiliary house of bagrationi dynasty and therefore they should be called as high nobles.
As for Pss. Anna, she is the lawful heir and next in line to the throne of Georgia after her father Pr. Nugzar and she must be called as royal highness what is lawful and correct.

If someone is still interested in true details of royal house of georgia please visit this page: History and Genealogical tables - georgianroyalhouses jimdo page!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I understoof Prince David represents the elder line of the Royal House.
 
Are the Bagrations descendants of King David of Israel? Or could their family be traced back during the time of King David? Which is these two is the correct answer? Please help. Thanks! :flowers:
 
Rhys82192 said:
Are the Bagrations descendants of King David of Israel? Or could their family be traced back during the time of King David? Which is these two is the correct answer? Please help. Thanks! :flowers:
Click to expand...

Read post # 2 in this thread. It has links with full info.
 
I supposed only the Emperors of Ethiopia claimed their descendancy from the ancient Royal House of David and Solomon.
 
King David was Jewish. Anyone descended from the House of David has Jewish ancestry running thru their veins. This is at least what I've been told.
 
Could somebody explain how are the Bagratides descendants of the ancient Jewish Dynasty?
 
It remains anyway maybe the most ancient Royal House in the world.
 
Cory said:
I understood Prince David represents the elder line of the Royal House.
Click to expand...
Non of the lines are any older that any other line. So, this statement makes non sense dear Cory.

I still have to remind that important is who belongs to royal line and who to cadet offshoot line
First of all, the senior line is the line of the kings in a non-salic kingdom --- that is the line of HRH Prince Nugzar. The Mukhraneli line of Prince David's ancestors lost all dynastic rights in 1505.

Cory said:
Could somebody explain how are the Bagratides descendants of the ancient Jewish Dynasty?
Click to expand...

There is a genealogical chart of Bagrationi dynasty made by King of Kartli Vakhtang VI at the beginning of 18 century, where shown how the Bagrationi Dynasty descends from the King David of Israel.

Cory, I suggest you concentrate more on present truth than on scrapping of some ancient parts of Georgian history. Truth and honesty that is what we must secure today. Therefore ignoring of the true head of the Royal House of Georgia from the visitors of this thread simply not fairly.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If Prince Nuzgar would be the "de iure King" why did he accepted Prince David to be considered Head of the Royal house ?Not to mention Prince David is Prince Nuzgar's son in law.
 
Cory said:
If Prince Nuzgar would be the "de iure King" why did he accepted Prince David to be considered Head of the Royal house ?Not to mention Prince David is Prince Nuzgar's son in law.
Click to expand...

Relying on the royal house chancellery information I can safely declare - It is a big lie I have ever heard. There was no endorsement from Prince Nugzar. Important is that David did not signed the contract imposed both by international and dynastic law.
Dear Cory, now prince David is really son in law to Head of the royal house of Georgia Nugzar, but it does not make David a royal by his descent. After his wedding with Anna he became a member of the royal family of Georgia but he is definitely not considered as a future head of Royal house or even head of state. These all belongs to HRH Prince Nugzar and after him to his heir - Pss. Anna.
 
Last edited:
So Prince Nuzgar and Prince David both considers themselves Head of the Royal House.An interesting Family!
 
Cory said:
So Prince Nuzgar and Prince David both considers themselves Head of the Royal House.An interesting Family!
Click to expand...


Yes but the difference is - HRH Prince Nugzar belongs to royal ancestry and David (son in law) to high-nobiliary branch of non-reigning bagrationi.
 
Not everybody agrees with you on this issue.
 
The Patriarch Ilia II recognizes Prince David as Head of the Royal Family.
 
"In the first decades of the 1700s, there were three Orthodox kingdoms ruled by different branches of the Bagration dynasty: the kingdom of Kartli, the kingdom of Kakhety, and the kingdom of Imeretia. Kartli: The senior line of the entire Bagration dynasty were the kings of Kartli, and the Bagrations of Moukhrani were junior dynasts of the Kartli line. The Bagrations of Moukhrani were thus genealogically senior to the Kakhety and Imeretia branches within the Bagration dynasty. The Kartli branch was dethroned by Muslim invaders, and King Wakhtang VI of Kartli, with his sons, went into exile in Russia in 1724, without, however, renouncing their rights to the Kartli throne. His male line descendants died out circa 1903, at which point the Bagrations of Moukhrani became the senior representatives of the former royal house of Kartli and heads of the entire Bagration dynasty. Kakhety: The junior royal line of Kakhety remained on its throne and in the 1740s pushed the Turks out of the territory that had once comprised the neighboring kingdom of Kartli. King Theimouraz of Kakhety had married Thamar Bagration, daughter of Wakhtang VI, last reigning King of Kartli; in 1744, with her husband, she had herself proclaimed Thamar II, Queen of Kartli in her own right. Their son, Irakly II, became King of Kakhety and Kartli, uniting them into the kingdom of Georgia in 1762. The Bagrations of Moukhrani, having stayed in Kartli rather than following Wakhtang VI to Russia, remained active dynasts of the newly united monarchy and continued to exercise within the united kingdom of Georgia the hereditary positions (of military commandant of Upper Kartli and of Constable of the Left of Georgia) that they had held under the old Kartli monarchy. Irakly II, as monarch of both Kartli and Kakhety and through his parents a member of both the Kartli and Kakhety lines of the dynasty, showed marked favor to his genealogically senior cousin, Constantine, Prince of Moukhrani. Irakly II’s eldest son and heir, Tsarevich Wakhtang, married Constantine of Moukhrani’s daughter, Princess Kethevan. (Irakly II outlived his eldest son.) In addition, Ivan, eldest son and heir of Constantine of Moukhrani, married Irakly II’s daughter Princess Kethevan Thamar. It was his son-in-law Ivan, future Prince of Moukhrani, whom Irakly II appointed as his plenipotentiary to negotiate the 1783 treaty of friendship with Catherine the Great of Russia. The dynasty of the united Georgian kingdom was, as stated in the text, dethroned in 1801. Imeretia: The Bagrations, Kings of Imeretia, a line junior to the Kartli and Kakhety branches, retained their throne until nearly a decade after the Georgian throne was toppled. Russia had signed a treaty with King Solomon II of Imeretia with provisions similar to the Treaty of Georgievsk but nonetheless dethroned him in 1810. He did not go to Russia afterwards but instead lived his remaining years in exile in the Ottoman Empire. Today: Prince George Bagration of Moukhrani, who traveled from Spain to Tblisi in 1995 with the remains of his grandfather, was the senior male of the royal Kartli line of the Bagrations and thus head of the entire Bagration dynasty. He was recognized in the 1990s as head of the former royal house by the Georgian government and by the patriarch of the Georgian Orthodox Church. He died in 2008 and was succeeded by his son, Prince David Bagration (born 1976). After the collapse of the Soviet Union, historians learned that several members of the Kakhety royal line were still alive and well in Georgia, having survived Stalin. The head of this line is Prince Nugzar Bagration-Gruzinsky (born 1950). In 2007, Patriarch Ilia II, head of the Georgian Orthodox Church, made a public statement advocating a Bagration constitutional monarchy as a means of advancing the development of the nation. This prompted Georgian historians and journalists to analyze the question of who the heir to the throne should be. Less than 18 months later, on 8 February 2009 at Tblisi’s cathedral, Prince David Georgievich Bagration of Moukhrani, head of the Bagration dynasty, married Princess Anna Nugzarovna Bagration (like her husband, also born in 1976), daughter of Prince Nugzar, head of the Kakhety line, thus uniting the two lines of Kartli and Kakhety in a manner similar to the way that the marriage of King Irakly II’s parents united them in the 18th century." (THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL SUCCESSION)
"Although Mr. Sargis mentions that King David VIII granted his brother Bagrat the province of Moukhrani and installed him as its first sovereign prince, he has not explained the extent to which this branch, despite its sovereign status in Moukhrani, maintained its position as "first Princes of the Blood" within the Kingdom of Georgia. Three consecutive sovereign Princes of Moukhrani acted as Regents of Georgia. And on the death without heirs of King Rostom of Georgia, Wakhtang Bagration, sovereign Prince of Moukhrani, ascended the Georgian throne as King Wakhtang V in 1659 and ceded the throne of Moukhrani to his younger brother, Prince Constantine Bagration, ancestor of all the subsequent Princes of Moukhrani and also of the Grand Duchess Leonida."(THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL SUCCESSION)
"The son and heir of Georgia’s last King, George XII, was Prince David Bagration. His father had chosen him as his eventual successor, and in 1799 Emperor Paul I of Russia, pursuant to the provisions of the Treaty of Georgievsk, had formally recognized David as heir to the Georgian throne. After Russia annexed Georgia, however, Russian troops brought David Bagration to St. Petersburg, where he was granted a residence and a pension. For several decades, Russia gave him the status of a royal prince and recognized him by the royal title of tsarevich, or crown prince. But, as the policy of Russification advanced, Russia revoked its recognition of David’s royal status and in 1833 placed him and the other Bagrations on the list of Russian nobles, in effect decreeing their demotion from royal rank. Meantime, King George XII’s half-brother, Prince Peter Bagration, having frustrated Russian efforts to capture him in 1801, led an invasion from Persia and seized Kakhety in 1812. He was proclaimed King of Georgia by his followers, but Russian troops regained control of Kakhety in 1813. The monarchist plot to restore the Bagrations, planned in Georgia in the early 1830s and quickly foiled by Russia, sought to place Peter on the throne."(THE RUSSIAN IMPERIAL SUCCESSION)

 
Thank you cory very good information soo the head of the royal house its Prince Davit and not varaz ))))
 
Last edited:
Greetings, all! I have to agree with Varaz, as does Burke's Peerage World Orders of Knighthood and Merit (please see the entry on Order of the Eagle of Georgia; it states that the Gruzinski line has a stronger claim). Though Prince David may be genealogically senior, Prince Nugzar is the closest male heir from the last reigning King. Acknowledging Prince David now as head of the royal Bagrationi line would be akin to bringing the Stuarts back in Britain now and ignoring the more recent dynasties of the United Kingdom.
That said, there are some powerful people who seem to support David, including seemingly the Patriarch. Hopefully these people will eventually be open to historical accuracy, which would be support of the Gruzinski line. That said, if a male is born from Prince David and Princess Anna, that would be an amazing development.
Respectfully yours,
Guye
 
Last edited:
As the discussion had descended into partisan sniping the thread will remain closed for the short term.

Warren
Administrator

- - - - - - - - - -

The newborn Prince may bring some unity to the Georgian Royal House and to this now re-opened thread.
.
 
Last edited:
Royal House of Georgia

Confirmed
. . . . . . . . .

The following message was received from member giorgi in Tbilisi, Georgia, a short time ago...

Georgiaarms.png

​

"The Grand Chancery of the Royal House of Georgia is delighted to announce that yesterday evening, on the 27th September 2011 at 10.40 pm
Her Royal Highness The Princess Anna, wife of His Royal Highness The Prince David Bagrationi Mukhran Batonishvili, gave birth to a son,
their first born and heir to the Dynastic Throne.

He will be named and styled as His Royal Highness The Prince Giorgi Bagration Bagrationi.

The birth of the young Prince has been a source of immense joy and happiness to the Royal Family.

Praise be given to God."
.
​
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

R
Ancient royal houses of Europe
Replies
4
Views
1K
CyrilVladisla
CyrilVladisla
M
Family Bylaws Concerning the House Law of the House of Luxembourg-Nassau
Replies
1
Views
417
Tatiana Maria
T
iceflower
  • Locked
  • Sticky
Assigned Moderators - Royal House of Jordan Forum
Replies
0
Views
136
iceflower
iceflower
iceflower
  • Locked
  • Sticky
Assigned Moderators - Royal House of Norway Forum
Replies
0
Views
190
iceflower
iceflower
iceflower
  • Locked
  • Sticky
Assigned Moderators - Royal House of Sweden Forum
Replies
0
Views
147
iceflower
iceflower

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom