Non-ruling royals

[Australian]

What function to non ruling royals play?
do they still get bowed to? Do they have any power? Also, do they need the support of the people to marry and stuff

 

[Australian]

I would really like an answer to this,im interested to know so if anyone knows can you please post a reply
thank you

 

[Genevieve]

There's no need to be impatient. You have barely posted it for 12 hours and you are demanding a reply. People who have been online since you posted it may not know the answer or may not have had the time to reply in full yet.

Obviously if royal families are non-ruling then they play no role or function in their country. Many of them do not live anymore in the country they are supposed to rule. Even ruling families today play mainly symbolic roles within their own countries. If the Kings and Queens of Sweden, Belgium, Spain, Denmark, the Netherlands, etc. play a limited role in the governance of their country the Kings and Queens of an exhiled country (Italy, Greece) would play an even lesser role if any at all (mostly the latter).

And obviously if they are without a country they don't need the support of their people to marry the way the Dutch royals need to ask permission of the government if they want to remain in the line of succession. That would be silly wouldn't it? To ask permission of the people of a country you are now allowed into if you can marry a particular person. Why would Pavlos have needed to seek the permission of the Greek people or the Greek government to marry Marie-Chantal in 1995 if the Greek government especially barely acknowledged him or his family?

In terms of expected protocol, people are likely not required to bow or curtsy to ex-Kings and Queens if they don't want to the way they might bow or curtsy to ruling Kings and Queens. If people bowed or curtsy at all to the Italian or Greek royals it is more of a courtesy or acknowledgement to their former status. Of course many monarchies have done away with bowing and curtsying - I think Queen Beatrix or her mother Queen Juliana did away with such practice during their reign.

 

[Australian]

i didnt mean to upset you, i am online when everyone is asleep i guess because im all the way in Australia. I apologise.

 

[hillary_nugent]

Golly you didn't sound impatient at all there's nothing to complain about there...anyhow in regards to your questions ^___^ i don't think they get bowed to as much anymore only perhaps at really formal occasions where people might actually recognise their previous statue ^__^ and while they might enjoy the same wealth i think their previlege has definitely decreased ^___^ G'day ^__^

 

[Australian]

Does that mean they don't have state royal weddings?

 

[Australian]

sorry, also does that mean that they dont live in the palaces anymore?

 

[sara1981]

i dont think so Australia dont have palace you know that! when Crown Princess Mary raise there she known lived in Australia before she wed to her husband Crown Prince Fred of Denmark in May 2004.

Sara Boyce

 

[Australian]

no what i meant was, for example, the french royal family, do they still live in palaces? I know Australia doesnt have palaces!

 

[Lord Williams]

Non-reigning royals

Austrialian:



The French Royals, I am actually not sure. Prince Louis-Alfonse may live with the Spanish Royal Family, I am not entirely sure. I am going on a whim that I have heard this before. As for the French royals, I know for a fact that they do no live in Versailles or any of those palaces! They are museums now or government offices.

The Greek Royals(the Ex-King and Queen) live in a nice house in London but it isn't a Palace.

The Hanoverians actually have Marienburg Castle to live in, Which IMO is one of the most beautiful castles I've ever seen.

Some royals probably could live in Palaces, I am fairly sure King Constantine and Anne-Marie of Greece would be welcome in Spain's Royal Palace, as the former King of Greece's sister is the Queen of Spain. They might could even live in a Palace in Denmark since the former Queen of Greece's sister is the Queen of Denmark....they have good family ties to Europes crowned heads. However, they do not live in the Greek palaces. They would love to, but it isn't possible. I hope I answered a little of your question.

 

[bad_barbarella]

Im sure the handsome princes go and live happily ever after in there castles with there non ruling princess brides

 

[Australian]

yes you did, thankyou very much

 

[bad_barbarella]

And obviously if they are without a country they don't need the support of their people to marry the way the Dutch royals need to ask permission of the government if they want to remain in the line of succession. That would be silly wouldn't it? To ask permission of the people of a country you are now allowed into if you can marry a particular person. Why would Pavlos have needed to seek the permission of the Greek people or the Greek government to marry Marie-Chantal in 1995 if the Greek government especially barely acknowledged him or his family?

What happens if a prince or princess fails in love and the country dont approve

 

[hillary_nugent]

He must choose between a Royal life or a common life probably...although i doubt he'd lose all his/her privileges...and he/she would probably still be rich

 

[bad_barbarella]

what sort of things would point to the country approving?

 

[KikkiB]

In Norway King Harald has a few "state" jobs; he has to sign all the laws passed by the Parliament and he also have the right to veto any law two or three times before it is passed anyway, but he never do that, he also holds the Government meeting in the Palace every Friday with all the ministers (secretaries of state and departments) and he also opens the Parliament every autumn, giving a "state of the nation" speach. If the King is indisposed to do these things, the Crown Prince will be his "locum".

I also believe the royal family have an important "public relations" function, representing Norway in the world. So I feel that their function is not obsolete.

And yes, the King and Queen live in the Palace in Oslo, the Palace is owned by the Norwegian state, as well as other manors and villas they use when they are visiting other parts of the country. The Crown Prince and his family live at Skaugum, but I'm not sure if that manor is privately own by them, or if it also belong to the Norwegian state.

In Norway there is very little pomp and circumstance, compared to other monarchies such as Sweden and Denmark. It's not the Norwegian way, but here is a certain feel of ceremony at gallas and such, and when the royal family is visting the other parts of Norway, opening buildings etc. The lack of pomp and circumstance may be seen in connection to the fact that Norway does not have any nobility, and both Sweden and Denmark does.

 

[norwegianne]

King Harald has the right to veto a law three times. Though he has never used it.

 

[Genevieve]

What happens if a prince or princess fails in love and the country dont approve

It doesn't matter if the country doesn't approve -- that they have no country to rule means that it doesn't matter what their country thinks. In the cases of the Greek, Italian, French, Bulgaria, etc. princes and princesses, they don't need to seek government permission in order to marry. Hence, even if the Greek/Italian/French/Bulgarian people didn't approve of Marie-Chantal, Clotilde, Miriam or whomever it wouldn't have mattered a single bit. No member of the exhiled/over thrown royal families have any obligations to the people of their 'originating' country to seek approval for their marriages or any other personal decisions they make. For all intents and purposes, they are 'regular' folk like you and I.'

The Greek people or government not liking Marie-Chantal has no bearing on Pavlos or his role; he is and continues to be the Crown Prince of an exhiled monarchy, whether he married Marie-Chantal or not.

But the Dutch people or goverment not liking or approving of Maxima has every bearing on Willem's role and his future -- he would have to choose between Maxima or his role as the Crown Prince.

 

[Genevieve]

Austrialian:



The French Royals, I am actually not sure. Prince Louis-Alfonse may live with the Spanish Royal Family, I am not entirely sure. I am going on a whim that I have heard this before. As for the French royals, I know for a fact that they do no live in Versailles or any of those palaces! They are museums now or government offices.

Prince Louis-Alfonse most certainly doesn't live with the Spanish royals. The King and Queen live in a modest hunting lodge Zarzuela Palace. Louise-Alfonse has his own home seperate from the Spanish royal family, who are supposed to be neutral in such matters that include battles between various individuals who claim the right to the French throne.

Some royals probably could live in Palaces, I am fairly sure King Constantine and Anne-Marie of Greece would be welcome in Spain's Royal Palace, as the former King of Greece's sister is the Queen of Spain. They might could even live in a Palace in Denmark since the former Queen of Greece's sister is the Queen of Denmark....they have good family ties to Europes crowned heads. However, they do not live in the Greek palaces. They would love to, but it isn't possible. I hope I answered a little of your question.

The King and Queen of Greece wouldn't ever be allowed to stay at either the Spanish or Danish palaces for very long; certainly not permanently. Spain's monarchy is so precarious already that to allow the Greek King and Queen (even if they are family of the Queen's) would reflect very badly on a family that has always tried to live very humbly.

And when the King and Queen lived in Denmark briefly after fleeing from Greece, they were not allowed to stay very long. It was put to Margrethe that consideing the political situation and Denmark's need to stay neutral and appear impartial to the Greek government, she could not allow her sister to stay for very long. Of course the political situation is much different now but I believe the same appearance of staying neutral would be still relevant.

 

[Josefine]

i do not think they have any roles they are more known as realtives to other royal houses now a days

 

[His Lordship]

Okay Genevieve....

First off, I found this section from a book I was reading on the Spanish Royal Family..it should clear up where and why they chose to live where they live.

The Palacio Real (Royal Palace) is the largest palace in Europe. The actual name is the Palacio Oriente (East Palace), but it is hardly ever referred to by that name. It has 2,800 rooms, over 110 (main) doors, 870 window, 270 balconies and 44 staircases and a banquet hall with a table that can seat 140 people! It was used by the Kings and Queen of Spain from 1734 until 1931. It was originally commissioned by Felipe V in 1734 and construction took 26 years. During that time two more kings, Carlos III and Carlos IV also influenced the design and decor. The current King of Spain, Juan Carlos I lives in the more modest Zarzuela Palace outside of Madrid, but the Palacio Royal is still used for state occasions.

 

[His Lordship]

Also, the Crown Prince of Yugoslavia was allowed back into one of the palaces in his homeland.

You are correct, the K an Q of Greece live in a very modest house in London and lost a major lawsuit back in 2002 for Mon Repos and Tatoi...two places the Greek Royal Family owned outright.

The Queen of England owns outright Balmoral and Sandringham as her private property .

Prince Charles owns outright Highgrove as his personal property.

The Crown Prince of Italy renounced all claims to the throne and posessions in order to be able to get back into his country in 2002. He lives in Switzerland.

The MANY, MANY branches of the German Royal family from the Hoenzollerns to the the former heads of Baden, Hoenloe, Hanover, and all the rest of them made out the best after WWII, each family pretty much has the castles that have been in their families for generations....maybe not in Berlin for the Hoenzollerns, but yes they do in the country.

I find it ironic that out of all the ousted royal families..the German ones would still have access and own their palaces and still live in Germany.

My biggest pet peeve about this, if you are a memeber of a royal family who owned in your own name, property or jewels as personal property, like I own my own home, then damn it NO government should be able to keep them 60 years after the war ended. These governments behaved in a disgraceful manner and should give everything back.

There are still Habsburgs fighting today for their personal property to be restored to them.

 

[Elspeth]

Prince Charles owns outright Highgrove as his personal property.

The Duchy of Cornwall owns Highgrove. It's certainly his personal residence, but I don't know if it's correct to say he owns it outright.

My biggest pet peeve about this, if you are a memeber of a royal family who owned in your own name, property or jewels as personal property, like I own my own home, then damn it NO government should be able to keep them 60 years after the war ended. These governments behaved in a disgraceful manner and should give everything back.

That rather depends on why the monarch was got rid of in the first place. Part of the reason why the Romanovs were ousted is that they were considered to be parasites, living in extreme luxury while the vast majority of people lived in extreme poverty. Same for the French monarchy. It would have made a mockery of the revolutions in those countries if the royals had been able to keep everything they had at the time they were deposed.

Obviously things are different for the king of Greece, since we aren't talking about huge palaces and a population in the last extremes of poverty. But I think things should be taken on a case-by-case basis since situations are so different.

 

[His Lordship]

Hi Elspeth,

You are right, I checked on the Prince's Highgrove home.

Did the Romanov's own any of their homes as personal property?

I do differ with you though.....no matter which royal family did what, if they owned personal property and the government confiscated it, well, they should fight like hell to get it back.

Maybe that is the American in me talking but I firmly believe in that....imagine how you would feel if the government took your personal property, houses, jewels, whatever and then threw you out of the country.

I am not saying any of these royals are perfect, but what's right is right....the same goes for all the Jews who had property, jewels, paintings taken from them during WWII....all these governments should give them back...they did nothing wrong to deserve it.

 

[Elspeth]

Maybe that is the American in me talking but I firmly believe in that....imagine how you would feel if the government took your personal property, houses, jewels, whatever and then threw you out of the country.

I think the American way is also to acknowledge fairness. You don't expect industrialists to get to keep everything if they've been found to be stealing from their shareholders, employees, and customers. If the ruling class has been effectively stealing from the people by keeping them in servitude and exempting the rich from taxation, and if the ruling class isn't willing to ever let up, then at some point or another, the people are going to decide that all that wealth doesn't really belong to the rulers because it was stolen. And they're going to want it back. The Romanovs treated the Russian people abominably for many years; IMO there's no justification for the descendants to start demanding the return of the Kremlin and other palaces.

 

[His Lordship]

If you own property outright you purchased with your money, then you should keep it.

I do not think the Romanovs owned the Kremlin and other palaces in Moscow...but I could be wrong, and given the past government and current one, their situation is a little different from the Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian, and Yugoslavian families.

Many Coburgs, Hoenloes, Hanovers, Hoenzollerns, and Hesses were involved in the Nazi government from forming the Gestapo downward...many of Prince Philip's brothers-in-law were Nazis.

Do you believe that many of their descendents should get to live in the various castles and palaces they still have today?

As I said before, they were the families who made out the best after WWII.

 

[Elspeth]

If you own property outright you purchased with your money, then you should keep it.

That depends where "your money" came from. If most of the population of your country doesn't consist of people with basic human freedoms and if they live under a system of indentured servitude, then "your money" is pretty much the same sort of money as that of a slave owner. Rulership cuts both ways - the rulers have wealth and privilege, but they also have responsibilities to the people they rule. The Romanovs in the late 19th and early 20th century, and the French ruling class in the 18th century, had a lot of the former and gave nothing back. That money wasn't just theirs.

 

[wittykitty]

In the Theo Aronson book there was a mention the contents especially furniture
was purchased in bulk by Queen Sofie from English departent store not pricless valubable antiques and the Greek royals didn't have access to the millions the Ramanov's did. I always thought it was odd when reading about how Empress Alexandra had the girls stash and sew jewels in the undergarments that they would have sold for future use abroad- to my russian relatives it is theft.
Wittykitty

 

[His Lordship]

Elspeth,

You doing bring some very excellent points up. I guess in some regards it would be case by case.

But I am still amazed the German Royals still have much property and jewels intact.....and I mean all the various Hoenzollerns right down to the former royals of the duchys, landgraves, etc.

 

[Elspeth]

Yes - I don't know quite why the Greek government is being so intransigent when so many of the German royals are so much better off than the Greek royal family. I wonder if it has to do with the fact that the Greek monarch is still a viable potential alternative to the present goverment, which feels threatened by the royals as a result and is determined to marginalise them, whereas the German royals are sort of like the Indian princes - leaders of small sections of society but no real threat to the government - and so the republican leaders can afford to be generous.