Kingdom of Armenia

[Samvel Magrdini]

A Memorandum signed between the Royal House of Bagrationi-Imereti and the Armenian monarchical and aristocratic organizations
​

The Royal House of Bagrationi-Imereti and the Armenian monarchical and aristocratic organizations (the Armenian Princely Union, the Meliq Union and the Chivalry Order of St. King Trdat the Great) signed a Memorandum of Understanding and Cooperation. The Memorandum identifies various areas and spheres of cooperation between the Royal House of Bagrationi-Imereti and the traditional Armenian nobility, including regular exchange of information on history, monarchical and aristocratic traditions and ceremonies, genealogy and heraldry; joint activities in the restoration of the moarchist traditions of Armenia and Georgia (including joint research in the above-mentioned areas); facilitation in strengthening and deepening ties between Armenian and Georgian (Imeretian) monarchical and aristocratic houses, as well as monarchist movements; cooperation in international matters, including coordination of efforts and resources in foreign monarchical and aristocratic circles. In the framework of this Memorandum, the parties pledged to develop cooperation on the basis of a non-politicized and nonreligious dialogue in the spirit of mutual respect for the history and traditions of Armenia and Georgia. As stated in the preamble of the Memorandum, the parties remain faithful to the centuries-old traditionally fraternal relations between the Armenian and Georgian peoples founded since the time of great patriarchs Hayk and Kartlos, and continued by the great Royal Houses of Armenia and Georgia.

[Troy Thompson]

Originally Posted by Artemisia

You made a brilliant post on a brief history on the Kingdom of Armenia (both of them, in fact); however, the Savoy claim (which is, for whatever reason, wildly accepted) is actually inaccurate.

The House of Savoy did inherit the claim after Queen's Charlotte's death; however, at some point the pretender to the Kingdom of Armenia and the Head of House of Savoy ceased to be the same person because of Savoy's Salic Laws: Armenia (neither Kingdom of Armenia, nor Cilician Kingdom of Armenia) never had any laws that forbade women from ascending to the Throne. In fact, there had been several Queens Regnant throughout history of Armenia.

This is how the title passed from one titular Monarch to the other (not necessarily from parent to child; sometimes, more remote relatives inherited the claim):
- Leo V, King of Armenia
- James I of Cyprus
- Janus of Cyprus
- John II of Cyprus
- Charlotte I
- Charles I, Duke of Savoy (son of Amadeus IX, Duke of Savoy, himself son of Anne de Lusignan, herself daughter of King Janus of Cyprus)
- Charles II, Duke of Savoy (son of Charles I)
- Yolande Louise of Savoy (daughter of Charles I)

At this point, the Houses of Savoy and claimants to the Throne of Armenia parted their ways.
- Charlotte of Naples (daughter of Anne of Savoy, herself daughter of Amadeus IX, Duke of Savoy, himself son of Anne de Lusignan)
- Anne de Laval (daughter of Charlotte of Naples)
- Louis III de La Tremoille (son of Anne de Laval)
- Claude de La Tremoille (son of Louis III de La Tremoille)
- Henry III of Tremoille (son of Claude de La Tremoille)
- Henri Charles de La Tremoille, 4th Duke of Thouars (son of Henry III of Tremoille)
- Charles Belgique Hollande de La Tremoille (son of Henri Charles de La Tremoille, 4th Duke of Thouars)
- Charles Louis de La Bretagne Tremoïlle (son of Charles Belgique Hollande de La Tremoille)
- Charles Godefroy de La Tour d'Auvergne (son of Marie Armande Victoire de la Tremoïlle, herself daughter of Charles Belgique Hollande de La Tremoille)
- Jacques Leopold de La Tour d'Auvergne (son of Charles Godefroy de La Tour d'Auvergne)
- Henri Louis de Rohan, Prince de Rohan-Guemene (son of Marie-Louise de La Tour d'Auvergne. herself daughter of Charles Godefroy de La Tour d'Auvergne)
- Charles IV Alain Gabriel de Rohan, Prince de Rohan (son of Henri Louis Marie de Rohan, Prince de Rohan-Guemene)
- Jules Armand Louis de Rohan (son of Henri Louis de Rohan, Prince de Rohan-Guemene)
- Prince Benjamin Armand Rohan-Rochefort-Guemene (son of Marie Louise de Rohan, herself daughter of Henri Louis de Rohan, Prince de Rohan-Guemene)
- Prince Arthur Carl de Rohan (son of Prince Benjamin Armand Rohan-Rochefort-Guemene)
- Karl Viktor Alain de Rohan (son of Prince Arthur Carl de Rohan)
- Alain Benjamin, Furst von Rohan (son of Prince Arthur Carl de Rohan)
- Alain Anton, Furst von Rohan (son of Alain Benjamin, Furst von Rohan)
- Princess Marie-Jeanne de Rohan (daughter of Alain Anton, Furst von Rohan: she is currently alive but childless)
- Princess Marguerite Johanna de Rohan (sister of Princess Marie-Jeanne)
- Louisette Kottulinsky (daughter of Princess Marguerite Johanna de Rohan; currently alive but childless)
- Marguerite Jamila Kottulinsky (sister of Louisette Kottulinsky)
- James Alexander Maule Durie of Durie (son of Marguerite Jamila Kottulinsky; born in 1978, he has no issue as of now. James was born and lives in England)

I don't understand how or why the sequence you've presented divorces from the La Trémoïlles where it does. If the succession rule used is male-preference primogeniture, the crowns of Jerusalem, Cyprus, and Armenian Cilicia would have remained in personal union with the title of Duke of Thouars until the death of Louis Jean Marie de La Trémoïlle in 1933, at which point they would have been inherited by his eldest sister, Charlotte de La Trémoille; then by her eldest son, Jean Charles Lamoral of Ligne-La Trémoïlle; then by his ledest son, Charles-Antoine Lamoral of Ligne-La Trémoïlle, who would currently hold the pretense to those crowns, with his eldest son, Edouard Lamoral Rodolphe de Ligne, as heir apparent.

[Qutus123]

There are a number of people who could claim to be the "King of Armenia" today. In no particular order they are:

Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples after Queen Charlotte sold her claim to Carlo I, Duke of Savoy the House of Savoy would continue to inherit the claim wether they acknowleded it or not.

Prince Amedeo, 5th Duke of Aosta disputed head of the House of Savoy due to the marrige and questionable actions of Vittorio Emanuele.

Franz, Duke of Bavaria as Armenia allowed for female succession unlike the Italian states, a claim could be made that as soon as there are no direct male heirs the throne would split, after Vittorio Emanuele I of Sardina the throne would thus unify with the Jacobite line.

Charles-Antoine Lamoral de Ligne-La Trémoïlle the senior recognised claimant to Cyprus would also naturally have a claim to Armenia because of the period the two were in personal union.

Archduke Dominic of Austria instead of trying to find a descendnant from the mess that is the "senior" line to the throne, perhaps things should be simplified and we should look at the original pretenders from the House of Brienne who claimed the throne in opposition to the Cypriot Kings, the most direct and senior descendant is indeed a Habsburg.

Sophie Audouin-Mamikonian a French writer claims to be the "Princess of Armenia as the Heiress of the Ancient Kingdom of Armenia" due to being descended from some Armenian monarchs centuries ago, in my opinion her claim is questionable however as everyone can trace their ancestory back to royalty eventually so everyone with some Armenian blood would be able to claim to be descendants too.

Prince David Bagrationi Mukhrani of Georgia the head of the Georgian branch of the House of Bagrationi which died out in Armenia, however as Georgia is likely to restore its monarchy Armenia might want to avoid a personal union.

Prince Nugzar Petres dze Bagration-Gruzinsky disputed head of the House of Bagrationi, could create a junior branch in Armenia, however on the ascension of his grandson the throne would unify.

[Addapalla]

Armenia has dire and urgent security needs right now. Not sure how instituting a monarchy helps at all with the country's perilous situation. Installing a monarch seems more like an escapist fantasy than a practical solution to Armenia's current woes.

[Qutus123]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

Armenia has dire and urgent security needs right now. Not sure how instituting a monarchy helps at all with the country's perilous situation. Installing a monarch seems more like an escapist fantasy than a practical solution to Armenia's current woes.

If you weren’t brainwashed by 300 years of republican propaganda you would know that it’s BECAUSE of Armenias current situation that people are even suggesting monarchy.

Constitutional monarchies are provably far more stable then republicans, if you don’t believe me look at the United States right now.

[Qutus123]

Originally Posted by Warren

The Kingdom of Armenia came to an end in 1045 when the last King of the Bagratuni dynasty, Gagik II, was forced to cede his kingdom of Ani to the Byzantine Empire. By that stage the Kingdom of Armenia had been dismembered and Ani was the last remnant. It is believed that the Bagrations of Georgia are an offshoot of the Bagratunis.

Prince Ruben, a Bagratuni and relation of Gagik II, founded the Rubenid dynasty and what became the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia. As the surrounding Mongols became Muslim and the Crusader states disintegrated, Christian Cilicia was left without any regional allies. Under the Lusignan dynasty (which had married into the Rubenids) the Kingdom fell to the Mamluks in 1375.

The claim to the Kingdom of Armenia then fell to the Cypriot branch of the Lusignans who styled themselves Kings of Jerusalem and Cyprus. The last ruling monarchs were Charlotte I followed by her usurping half-brother James II. James died in 1473 but had a posthumous son, James III, who died a year later. Venetian merchants had a significant presence in Cyprus and both deaths were suspicious; soon after the death of the baby James the Venetian Republic took control and made Cyprus a Venetian colony.

The usurped Queen Charlotte, married to her cousin Louis of Savoy, outlived her half-brother and his son. Two years before she died in 1487 she resigned her claims in favour of the next legitimate heir, Charles I of Savoy, her 1st cousin once removed.

Hence the Savoy claim to the title of King of Jerusalem and Cyprus, and if they wanted to push it, to the Kingdom of Armenia.

Is it known how exactly Ruben was related?

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Qutus123

Is it known how exactly Ruben was related?

No. The relationship is likely another fanciful legend fabricated at a later time to enhance the luster & legitimacy of a relatively new dynasty.

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Qutus123

If you weren’t brainwashed by 300 years of republican propaganda.... Constitutional monarchies are provably far more stable then republicans

Rather funny assertion since 75% of Europe's monarchies were swept away between 1848 and 1948 -- a good number of the constitutional monarchies being of much briefer duration than 300 years.

[Qutus123]

Originally Posted by Addapalla

Rather funny assertion since 75% of Europe's monarchies were swept away between 1848 and 1948 -- a good number of the constitutional monarchies being of much briefer duration than 300 years.

look at why these monarchies were aboloshed, things like communism and military dictatorships are responsible.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Qutus123

If you weren’t brainwashed by 300 years of republican propaganda you would know that it’s BECAUSE of Armenias current situation that people are even suggesting monarchy.

Constitutional monarchies are provably far more stable then republicans, if you don’t believe me look at the United States right now.

I think monarchies are the most stable regimes with a connection to their country and people that republics cannot have.

[Denville]

What's stable about them? Most monarchies have had periods of civil war, changes of dynasty, and overthrow of monarchy

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

I think monarchies are the most stable regimes with a connection to their country and people that republics cannot have.

Are countries such as Portugal and Ireland both republics not considered stable regimes?

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Are countries such as Portugal and Ireland both republics not considered stable regimes?

I don't know about Ireland.
I don't think the republic in Portugal is very stable. But right now that's what we have here in Portugal.

Of course there are stable republics. But I think historically monarchies are more stable.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Qutus123

There are a number of people who could claim to be the "King of Armenia" today. In no particular order they are:

Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples after Queen Charlotte sold her claim to Carlo I, Duke of Savoy the House of Savoy would continue to inherit the claim wether they acknowleded it or not.

Prince Amedeo, 5th Duke of Aosta disputed head of the House of Savoy due to the marrige and questionable actions of Vittorio Emanuele.

Franz, Duke of Bavaria as Armenia allowed for female succession unlike the Italian states, a claim could be made that as soon as there are no direct male heirs the throne would split, after Vittorio Emanuele I of Sardina the throne would thus unify with the Jacobite line.

Charles-Antoine Lamoral de Ligne-La Trémoïlle the senior recognised claimant to Cyprus would also naturally have a claim to Armenia because of the period the two were in personal union.

Archduke Dominic of Austria instead of trying to find a descendnant from the mess that is the "senior" line to the throne, perhaps things should be simplified and we should look at the original pretenders from the House of Brienne who claimed the throne in opposition to the Cypriot Kings, the most direct and senior descendant is indeed a Habsburg.

Sophie Audouin-Mamikonian a French writer claims to be the "Princess of Armenia as the Heiress of the Ancient Kingdom of Armenia" due to being descended from some Armenian monarchs centuries ago, in my opinion her claim is questionable however as everyone can trace their ancestory back to royalty eventually so everyone with some Armenian blood would be able to claim to be descendants too.

Prince David Bagrationi Mukhrani of Georgia the head of the Georgian branch of the House of Bagrationi which died out in Armenia, however as Georgia is likely to restore its monarchy Armenia might want to avoid a personal union.

Prince Nugzar Petres dze Bagration-Gruzinsky disputed head of the House of Bagrationi, could create a junior branch in Armenia, however on the ascension of his grandson the throne would unify.

Which of these is the favorite of Armenian monarchists? and what is most famous in Armenia?

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Of course there are stable republics. But I think historically monarchies are more stable.

But most monarchies were overthrown.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

But most monarchies were overthrown.

Yes, but it happened for different reasons.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

Yes, but it happened for different reasons.

because they were brutal, tyrannical or inefficent?

[Addapalla]

Originally Posted by Qutus123

look at why these monarchies were aboloihed, things like communism and military dictatorships are responsible.

The point is most fallen monarchies would not have so swiftly met their demise had there been strong / vocal popular support behind them instead of widespread antipathy / apathy.

And remember that far more European monarchies were eliminated / swallowed by other monarchies than by communists and military dictators: Duchy of Mantua, Khanate of Crimea, the monarchies in and near Georgia, the Kingdom of Poland, Duchy of Kurland, the Principality of Piombino, the 2 Hohenzollern principalities, Electoral Hesse, the Kingdom of Hanover, Duchy of Nassau, Duchy of Modena & Reggio, Duchy of Parma, Kingdom of Two Sicilies, Grand Duchy of Tuscany, Kingdom of Montenegro. Only in a few cases (Georgia, Poland and Two Sicilies) was there noticeable resistance by the citizenry. And don't forget how many lesser monarchs (Leiningen, Solms, Hohenlohe, Löwenstein, Bentheim, Waldburg, Oettingen, Fürstenberg, etc.) in the final years of the Holy Roman Empire were gobbled-up by neighboring monarchies during a chaotic free-for-all of secularization and mediatization.

In the case of fallen monarchies which were not absorbed by other monarchies, the citizenry in Mexico, France (in both 1848 & 1870), Neuchâtel, Brazil, Portugal, Russia, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Italy, Greece, and the German Empire and its 20+ subsidiary monarchies largely moved on after alternative governments were established, with relatively few shedding a tear over the deposed dynasty, or even bothering to look back.

[Toledo]

If the page defaults to Spanish, mouse over it and right click to select Translate to English

The last King of Armenia was Lord of Madrid

The last King of Armenia was taken prisoner by the Egyptian Mamluks, but freed thanks to the efforts and payments made for his release by a Christian King of whom he had no idea: John I of Castile...

...The new kingdom of Armenia was important for the German Empire and for the papacy. It was a Christian kingdom – the Armenians declared that they were the first Christian nation, since 300 AD. C. – embedded in the middle of the Muslim sea andcould provide vital logistical and strategic help to future campaigns for the Holy Places.