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  #381  
Old 09-25-2013, 06:22 PM
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Don Felipe: "El Rey está muy animado y con ganas de ponerse de pie" - ANTENA 3 TV Vídeo

La Reina y los príncipes de Asturias visitan al Rey · Lecturas.com · Última hora
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https://twitter.com/Lecturas/status/...443136/photo/1
La reina y los príncipes de Asturias visitan al rey después de la operación, Telediario - RTVE.es A la Carta vídeo
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  #382  
Old 09-25-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Because both infantas are living in another world, Revenga is a permanent character in their public and private life, and they do not seem to understand how harmful it is for the Crown that this man always appears beside them.

The Royal House should not allow it, he should be removed from all public activity until the courts resolve all doubts about him... but I imagine that the infantas defend him to the end.
The dynamic is certainly fascinating, is it not?
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  #383  
Old 09-25-2013, 11:19 PM
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For how long Will jc recovervand Will felipe take on more duties during this time?
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  #384  
Old 09-25-2013, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I think you're missing the overall point. If JC were the JC of old, the one who brought democracy to Spain and created all the "juan carlistas,", you'd have a point. I really don't believe people would be calling for him to step aside under the circumstances. When people call upon JC to step aside due to his knee, his hip, his age, it's really due to the underlying scandal, the underlying crimes which have allegedly been committed by members of his family and of which evidence indicates he had some knowledge and helped to arrange golden parachutes for his family. I know of no female monarch in even a remotely comparable situation.

I really don't see how anyone can overlook the Urdangarin situation when assessing the motivations and underlying prejudices of people who call for him and not Margrethe or Elizabeth or until recently Beatrix to step aside.
Gracie, I have already clearly replied for all your questions in post#343.
OK once again.. The King has not committed any crime.
A member of his family did.
But why didnt the judiciary punish her?
You say The King "influenced"..
Well..is there a clause in Spanish constitution that The King's influence has to be considered before trying a member of The RF?
Did the King threaten of a countercoup or something if his daughter is tried?
Does the "evidence" you are claiming supports any of the above? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO........
So, basically, the fault is NOT WITH THE KING, but the Spanish legal/juducial/administrative system..
WHY EXACTLY SHOULD THEY FALL FOR THE KING'S INFLUENCE?
They should entertain neither fear nor favour.. Isnt it the basic principle of judiciary?
And people simply want to King to call the police and say.. My SIL is a fraudster, come and arrest him..
No monarch..no human being will do so..
Do you think QEII never really knew of Andrew's shady deals and associations well before they actually surfaced? And upon that she immediately incensed him with GCVO the moment charges started coming in..
I am not blaming them..It is the basic parental protective instinct..
It is for the judiciary to work for justice..
If they fail in that..you cannot compensate for it by making the King abdicate..

Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
I know of no female monarch in even a remotely comparable situation.
I really don't see how anyone can overlook the Urdangarin situation when assessing the motivations and underlying prejudices of people who call for him and not Margrethe or Elizabeth or until recently Beatrix to step aside.
FYI Queen Julian'a husband..husband I repeat..not an in-law..was involved in Lockheed Scandal..and even got away with all that perfectly..no one demanded her abdication for keeping quiet inspite of knowing..or trying to shield him later..

I stand by my observations that male monarchs are treated unfairly compared to female monarchs, when it comes to judging them by the wrong-doings of their family members..
ABSOLUTELY NO OFFENCE TO ANY MONARCHS I RESPECT THEM ALL EQUALLY..
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  #385  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:18 AM
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If people think that there is a basis on what Juan Carlos should abdicate or make Felipe regent at this stage I doubt that a constitutional monarchy is the right political system for Spain going forward.
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  #386  
Old 09-26-2013, 03:16 AM
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I hope that Felipe and Letizia take with them Leonor&Sofia the next time they're going to visit The King.
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  #387  
Old 09-26-2013, 04:07 AM
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It is a matter of moral responsability, not legal. A Head of State that fails to meet his responsibilities, is a Head of State that lose the respect of his citizens. The Monarchy lives of gestures and when gestures are negative it is inevitable that people react.

The king is the head of his house and his family, and therefore ultimately responsible for everything that happens in it. No one can believe that the king had no information about that Inaki Urdangarin was taking advantage of his position, precisely for that reason they forced him to leave Noos. But they acted too late and way too weak. And we have seen the consequences... that are bad for the Crown, but also for the country's image.

If the king had acted responsibly, people probably would have ended up forgetting, but Botswana happened. That was his greatest act of irresponsibility as Head of State. Because in the most critical week of the economic crisis, when the country was about to be intervened... the Head of State had decided to take a vacation outside the country (when the previous 10 days had been the Easter holidays), to a luxury hunting in Africa, with a girl friend with more dubious business that Urdangarin and citizens had no idea.

When the situation was already difficult, that further complicated everything.
Citizens have lost confidence in their head of state, and that is very hard to recover, especially when he is sick and the country in a difficult situation.

The debate in Spain is not only about Juan Carlos... king, father or person ... is a debate especially on Juan Carlos as Head of State... at a time of severe economic and institutional criris. The debate arises not only because the king is sick, or the case Urdagarín ... debate arises for a whole set of circumstances of different class. There are many aspects and ways of analyzing the whole debate.

Medical Part 2 - September 26

http://www.casareal.es/ES/Documents/...e_medico_2.pdf
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  #388  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFinn View Post
Why Cristina must always have her secretary Carlos García Revenga with her?
Aren't there any less contradictory persons to take her to the hospital?
I think when JC had his last operation, Revenga went to see the King on his own, without the infantas. He's protected from the top.

Revenga & Cristina arrived 30 min after the Princes had left.

La infanta Cristina y los Príncipes de Asturias evitan coincidir en la clínica Quirón - Noticias de Casas Reales
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  #389  
Old 09-26-2013, 09:44 AM
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No Duke, in the previous surgery he arrived driving the car of the infantas, but went to park it and arrived a few minutes later.

I think the queen and her daughters defend him. It is unfortunate because his presence in pubic acts is very negative for the Crown, at least until his legal situation is resolved, should be working in the office. I imagine that publicly support him, protects Infanta Cristina ...

All media have highlighted his presence yesterday, and that was so unnecessary ...
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  #390  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:21 AM
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I guess if the King would say 'don't show up' he wouldnt ... so its not only the Queen & the Infantas.
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  #391  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I guess if the King would say 'don't show up' he wouldnt ... so its not only the Queen & the Infantas.
Quite right. What puzzles me is that the King seems to be an intelligent man (okay a few lapses in judgment here and there), I would think that he would take the time to organize his "house" and get rid of "troublesome" people, regardless of what the infantas want/need. And someone please explain to me why Christina hopped on a plane and few back to Madrid, wasn't she just in Spain. Can her mother or sister not keep her updated on her father's condition? Her coming back and forth does not look good in my opinion.
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  #392  
Old 09-26-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quite right. What puzzles me is that the King seems to be an intelligent man (okay a few lapses in judgment here and there), I would think that he would take the time to organize his "house" and get rid of "troublesome" people, regardless of what the infantas want/need. And someone please explain to me why Christina hopped on a plane and few back to Madrid, wasn't she just in Spain. Can her mother or sister not keep her updated on her father's condition? Her coming back and forth does not look good in my opinion.
I think its mainly for PR reasons. Whenever JC is in hospital, the whole family shows up, together, alone, in whatever combinations, smiling, to demostrate family unit. ok, the hip operation wasnt that easy but they did the same for minor treatments of JC in hospital where I woudnt visit my parents if I lived further away or even abroad because one can catch up via phone. But its all about image. the patron is in hospital and the family will gather around him.
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  #393  
Old 09-26-2013, 11:13 AM
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I have doubts that the king himself has something to say if he wants to avoid more problems.

Carlos García Revenga depends of the Queen team and has been very influential in the lives of the infantas, especially Elena, from their youth. It is common to see him in many private activities with Infanta Elena, and his daughters are godchildren of the infantas. They do not have a normal relationship of boss and employee, and that's much of the problem.

Since there was a controversy with her secretary, after controversial statements of the Queen in a biography, was clear that the Queen commands her team.

I do not think that the king wants a war with the women of the family. I think also he considered the work of the ladies "secondary" and has never cared much to have a control. With the Prince is a totally different story.

And very important, Revenga is a piece of the scandal Noos, if they protect him, protect Infanta Cristina. It is also a little discreet person, who likes to be in the photo and talk to the press...
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  #394  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:28 PM
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I agree with Lula. Because of the marital problem between JC and Sofia, JC pretty much lets Sofia does what she wants or he doesn't have much control over her. Infantas' secretary is part of Sofia's team, he reported to Sofia's secretary. Currently Sofia is a poor suffering wife with much sympathy from public, she pretty much gets away with everything, but monarchy and her husband suffer because of her insensitive or clueless attitude on the Noos case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If people think that there is a basis on what Juan Carlos should abdicate or make Felipe regent at this stage I doubt that a constitutional monarchy is the right political system for Spain going forward.
There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
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  #395  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
If people think that there is a basis on what Juan Carlos should abdicate or make Felipe regent at this stage I doubt that a constitutional monarchy is the right political system for Spain going forward.
IMO, the only way that people will accept the notion of a constitutional monarchy is for the monarch to act without a shadow of impunity.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; if the nation demands that a monarch step down (for some very valid reasons) then that system is not for them? There's got to be a way to remove a monarch who has lost the trust of the people, does there not?
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  #396  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:33 PM
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There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
Because its not the idea of a monarchy? Then why not elect the best person for the job (that is ceremonial only anyway) who is on top of his/her ability every four or five years.
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  #397  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
IMO, the only way that people will accept the notion of a constitutional monarchy is for the monarch to act without a shadow of impunity.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is throwing the baby out with the bathwater; if the nation demands that a monarch step down (for some very valid reasons) then that system is not for them? There's got to be a way to remove a monarch who has lost the trust of the people, does there not?
I dont agree and it only shows that the system doesnt fit into the 21st century any longer. If you start removing monarchs for subjective feelings (in this case, I guess not everybody agrees), you can as well have a republic. Why give such a perogative to a specific family where naturally not all members or generations will be qualified for what they are supposed to do. But that's another discussion I guess.
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  #398  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:27 PM
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Queen Sofia today

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  #400  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:33 PM
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There are new young leaders everywhere, what's the issue of a 75-year-old old man with health problem to retire if he can't perform his functions effectively ?
Since when does needing hip replacement surgery mean he cannot effectively perform his duties as monarch?
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