King Juan Carlos Hunting Accident & Trip To Africa: 2012

[jessmacleod]

I think he's worked rather hard the last week, and right after the overseas trip went right to work on Friday morning at Zarzuela.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

If you actually read the story, you will see as I posted above that both of these trips took place last fall well before the hunting trip/broken hip and Corrina later leaving Spain.

Corinna has always had residence in Monaco too, apart from Spain. Nowadays she is living in Monaco full time, due to the media attention. I dont think anything has changed, only that they are less bold about the relation in public.

By the way, I dont think that Corinna is as stupid as to believe that she could / would replace Sofia one day. I dont think she is interested in the public part, only in the non-public part that usually doesnt get exposed but is more lucrative.

[Queen Sofia fan]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Corinna has always had residence in Monaco too, apart from Spain. Nowadays she is living in Monaco full time, due to the media attention. I dont think anything has changed, only that they are less bold about the relation in public.

By the way, I dont think that Corinna is as stupid as to believe that she could / would replace Sofia one day. I dont think she is interested in the public part, only in the non-public part that usually doesnt get exposed but is more lucrative.

Does anyone know if Corinna accompany him on his last trip ?
Feel so sorry for Queen Sofia after details comes to the surface!
I guess she would also have a limit of humiliation in this:-(

[grevinnan]

Neither version of the infamous statement is worthy of re-print here or anywhere else.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by grevinnan

Neither version of the infamous statement is worthy of re-print here or anywhere else.

Agreed and it has been removed!

[An Ard Ri]

Please note that off topic posts have been deleted. Any questions should be directed to any member of the Spanish moderation team.

[susan alicia]

Spain's WWF fires Juan Carlos, completely justified imo


Spain's WWF dumps King as patron over African hunting trip - US news - Environment - NBCNews.com

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

Why apologize at all? Bad PR perhaps but he did nothing illegal. Politically incorrect for some but not illegal. The Spanish PM knew where he was, and he didnt feel the need to question the trip. It didnt cost the Spanish taxpayers as it was funded by the Saudis. He killed an elephant but that to is legal and the culling of the herd in Botswana is even sanctioned by the WWF. He traveled with a woman rumoured to be his mistress, well that is a private matter but it is not illegal.
Anyway he apologized, and now some people are just enjoying piling on a man while he is down.

[jessmacleod]

Originally Posted by susan alicia

Spain's WWF fires Juan Carlos, completely justified imo


Spain's WWF dumps King as patron over african hunting trip - US news - Environment - NBCNews.com

WWF knew about this as a previous member said. They've always known he was a hunter. Why only pull the plug NOW when it's bad PR ???? Who is the worse one then?

And so many comments about how wonderful his son is and handsome, and the old dood needs to abdicate? if you ask me, this is sanctioned discrimination against older people disguised as outrage. Why outrage now? Economy has tanked, Too many loans taken out, too much irresponsible lending, so lets blame the most visible rich dood in the country, cos god forbid the people have any blame at all.

quit pickin on the old dood. he's gettin enough as it is.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Its justified because it gives a bad image these days but thats all. Many WWF presidents have been known to be keen hunters, even of endagered species, like Prince Bernhard or Prince Philip.

But this was then and JC and the elephant is now, times and political correctness are different.

[jessmacleod]

Well I don't think the WWF should be about political correctness. They should stand for what is right and just, always, regardless. The fact that they knew of his propensities, and kept him on board until it came out in the press, simply makes them as culpable.

[susan alicia]

with the chinese buying up africa the elephant and rhino are going to become extinct, that is what has happened in the past 10 years.

JC must have known about this but probably thought his killing of a single elephant would not make a difference, his posing in front of the dead animal shows such poor judgement


BBC News - The illegal ivory trade threatening Africa's elephants

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Its justified because it gives a bad image these days but thats all. Many WWF presidents have been known to be keen hunters, even of endagered species, like Prince Bernhard or Prince Philip.

But this was then and JC and the elephant is now, times and political correctness are different.

[NGalitzine]

People seem to forget that the shooting of the elephant by King Juan Carlos in Botswana was absolutely legal. While the African elephant may be endangered in other parts of Africa it is not in Botswana. In fact their herds are too large and need to be culled which is why the Botswana government authorizes a limited hunt. The WWF does not object to hunting per se, indeed any conservationist recognizes culls as necessary for preservation of species, they do object to the killing of endangered species which in Botswana was not the case.

I am not sure if the outrage was about the shooting an elephant or about the king being in the company of his mistress, but in the end it was all about political correctness. The elephant kill was legal and his mistress is a private matter that really is only of concern to the king, his wife and his mistress.

The SRF seem to have been in the middle of a perfect storm...collapsed Spanish economy, the Inaki problem and then the kings hunt & mistress problem.

[Duke of Marmalade]

correct. Botwana is actually a good example for Africa because it is one of few african countries where the number of elephants is not declining.

The WWF is always in need of an important figurehead. In the past, a King etc (like Philip or Bernhard) wasnt questioned or investigated about private activities.

But today, it is not tolerable (and rightly so) that such an important public figurehead like Juan Carlos will pay money to shoot an elephant, it is not political correct, let alone that Spain and Spaniards are on the brink of bankruptcy, it is a highly insensitive action and speaks for the mindset of such a person, what was he thinking?

And we must not forget, if he hadnt fallen in his lodge, we would have never known about it. Its the worst form of hypocracy

its a case of you should practice what you preach and not go and Do as I say but dont do as I do

[susan alicia]

I know what you are talking about re botswana, I know people who say the same and then I hate them instantly, not for long unfortunatly. It still does not matter to me, he should not have done it, it is not his job to shoot an elephant. I am disappointed that he was so pleased with himself that he had his picture taken too.

Re the other difficulties of the SRF, only the collapsed economy is not of their making.
Greed: Inaki, it was not enough that he had the good fortune to marry Christina
the mistress and the shoot have something in common, he flaunts both things, perhaps it is honest but also stupid and arrogant.

Originally Posted by NGalitzine

People seem to forget that the shooting of the elephant by King Juan Carlos in Botswana was absolutely legal. While the African elephant may be endangered in other parts of Africa it is not in Botswana. In fact their herds are too large and need to be culled which is why the Botswana government authorizes a limited hunt. The WWF does not object to hunting per se, indeed any conservationist recognizes culls as necessary for preservation of species, they do object to the killing of endangered species which in Botswana was not the case.

I am not sure if the outrage was about the shooting an elephant or about the king being in the company of his mistress, but in the end it was all about political correctness. The elephant kill was legal and his mistress is a private matter that really is only of concern to the king, his wife and his mistress.

The SRF seem to have been in the middle of a perfect storm...collapsed Spanish economy, the Inaki problem and then the kings hunt & mistress problem.

[EIIR]

There's a huge difference between something being legally acceptable and its being morally acceptable. Elephant hunting is the former, but not the latter.

Juan Carlos wasn't caught out in a 'perfect storm' that he didn't see coming. The Spanish economy has been in meltdown for a few years now, and the Inaki accusations are hardly new. When Juan Carlos set foot on the plane for Botswana he was fully aware of both situations. I fail to see how anyone with any sort of common sense and even a shred of intelligence, could imagine that in such an environment the best thing to do was to set off on a private plane, with a bunch of wealthy friends and his alleged mistress to kill endangered animals for sport. It beggars belief.

[dazzling]

I personally don't see what the big deal is with this trip. He did everything legal, didn't break any laws nor did he spend money of taxpayers as mentioned. He was having a private trip just like any other person. This is not the first time he goes on an elephant hunting trip.

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

But today, it is not tolerable (and rightly so) that such an important public figurehead like Juan Carlos will pay money to shoot an elephant, it is not political correct, let alone that Spain and Spaniards are on the brink of bankruptcy, it is a highly insensitive action and speaks for the mindset of such a person, what was he thinking?

We don't know if he did pay. His friends could've paid or maybe it was for free as well. Its easy to blame the crisis. It seems its the excuse to almost everything the Spanish royals do these days.

[susan alicia]

if according to you it is all about money and being legal, that's all right then,

excellent posting prior to yours btw, perhaps you missed it, then again perhaps not

[grevinnan]

WWF is looking just as bad as the King after this dismissal. There was nothing wrong with the hunt. Perhaps the photo with the King and a dead elephant was not in good taste but unfortunately when you do big game hunting the photo op is part of the event. The King just had the unfortunate event of falling and getting injured which could not be kept from the press. I doubt anyone in Spain was surprised in regards to his travel companion. The King and Queen's lifestyles have been an open secret in Spain for decades. The WWF should have ceased the opportunity to educate the public as to the necessity of culling some animals in order to keep the herds healthy. The King was just being Juan Carlos.

[EIIR]

Originally Posted by dazzling

I personally don't see what the big deal is with this trip. He did everything legal, didn't break any laws nor did he spend money of taxpayers as mentioned. He was having a private trip just like any other person. This is not the first time he goes on an elephant hunting trip.

We don't know if he did pay. His friends could've paid or maybe it was for free as well. Its easy to blame the crisis. It seems its the excuse to almost everything the Spanish royals do these days.

Of course he spent taxpayers' money - he took a bunch of bodyguards with him who'll have required accommodation and money to cover the expenses that go with foreign travel.

It's also totally inappropriate for Juan Carlos to be accepting such lavish gifts from extremely wealthy, powerful individuals. It leaves him open to all sorts of accusations of impropriety. If these people are spending tens of thousands of dollars on JC, what exactly is JC doing for them in return?

All in all, it was deeply insensitive to be doing this sort of thing given the prevailing mood in Spain at the time.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by susan alicia

I know what you are talking about re botswana, I know people who say the same and then I hate them instantly, not for long unfortunatly.

I know it sounds horrible but for me its better to do controlled hunting for money that can be spent on tourism or protection instead of leaving the elephants to the mercy of poaching like in so many other african countries. And in case JC doesnt shoot as well as he thinks he does, he has a professional hunter by his side who will make sure that the chosen animal is dead by shooting immediately after the guest who pays the bill. Its far more "humanely" than being hunted & killed by poachers, who just kill and dont worry about killing females and leaving unprotected calves behind.

Still, this whole issue doesnt make it right for Juan Carlos, but only because of political correctness, moral reasons, inappropriateness considering the important public figure he is and who he represents in what times.

Its an astonishing misjudgement and lack of emotional intelligence or sensitivity from his part.