King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022

[Blog Real]

The Swiss Prosecutor's Office files the case for the donation of 65 million from King Juan Carlos to Corinna Larsen.
It closes the proceedings that it opened in 2018 for a possible laundering by not proving the relationship between the Saudi donation and the AVE to Mecca.
https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-fisc...lpicaba-juan-carlos-202112131121_noticia.html

The archiving of the case of Switzerland against King Juan Carlos is on the covers of the main Spanish newspapers today.
https://c7.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/B7c171e56/22212086_9SvUK.jpeg

https://c5.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Be218f7a0/22212087_h3Bf2.jpeg

https://c9.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/Be01798a8/22212088_ycaMA.jpeg

https://c10.quickcachr.fotos.sapo.pt/i/G36186ed8/22212089_MREWr.jpeg

The investigation in Spain of King Juan Carlos: more than three years of proceedings without a judge or possible defense.
There are not a few prosecutors who are surprised by the duration of the investigations by the Prosecutor's Office, which require speed.

https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-inve...uez-defensa-posible-202112132153_noticia.html

The Spanish government refuses to talk about the return of King Juan Carlos to Spain and says it will respect the decision of the royal house.

"It is not for us to pronounce ourselves on that decision that corresponds to the King Emeritus and of course we will be respectful with the decision that will be adopted within the Royal House in this regard," said the Government spokesperson, Isabel Rodríguez, today.

https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-gobi...otros-pronunciarnos-202112141514_noticia.html

King Felipe VI accepts that Juan Carlos returns to Spain in February

In the negotiation there have been no intermediaries. It was between father and son. The agreement may be altered if there are unforeseen events. It also includes where the emeritus will live in the future.

https://www.elespanol.com/porfolio/...carlos-vuelva-espana-febrero/636186761_0.html

When King Juan Carlos returns to Spain, he should return to reside in the Zarzuela Palace, for security reasons, is my opinion.

I think it is very risky for Juan Carlos to reside elsewhere in Spain other than Zarzuela.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

The Swiss Prosecutor's Office files the case for the donation of 65 million from King Juan Carlos to Corinna Larsen.
It closes the proceedings that it opened in 2018 for a possible laundering by not proving the relationship between the Saudi donation and the AVE to Mecca.
https://www.abc.es/espana/abci-fisc...lpicaba-juan-carlos-202112131121_noticia.html

Article in English from The New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/world/europe/switzerland-money-laundering-case-juan-carlos.html

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

The investigation in Spain of King Juan Carlos: more than three years of proceedings without a judge or possible defense.
There are not a few prosecutors who are surprised by the duration of the investigations by the Prosecutor's Office, which require speed.

For what its worth, its probably most likely that all involved parties probably were shrewd enough not to leave a paper trail and got their stories straight in advance. the fact that Saudi Arabia is, well, Saudi Arabia is probably a contributing factor as well.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Another Christmas in exile for the former monarch.

 

[Prinsara]

Self-exile. He could have had Sofia, if he hadn't gone down the other path decades ago. He could have had one of his girlfriends; who knows why none of them are with him. And I'm sure at least one of Elena and Christina will go see him soon, again.

It's a sorry situation but it's his own fault. Not everyone who is alone at Christmas, without even his attendants and friends, can say the same.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

King Felipe VI accepts that Juan Carlos returns to Spain in February


https://www.elespanol.com/porfolio/...carlos-vuelva-espana-febrero/636186761_0.html

Thanks. The article is behind a pay wall though. Another article picks up on it:


King Juan Carlos I will not be Christmas in Spain . Nor will he be able to celebrate his birthday, on January 5 , with his family in our borders, as published by El Español, thus clearing up one of the most debated political unknowns in recent weeks. This medium points out that the conversations have been carried out directly by Juan Carlos I and Felipe VI , without any kind of intermediary. In this sense, the current king of Spain has not been willing to allow the emeritus to spend the holidays in Spain.
The negotiations, according to this information, have not been easy at all. In fact, the news indicates that the agreement has arrived after a "long and hard" talk, something that the different expert analysts in the Royal House have pointed out in recent months.
El Español , on the other hand, also maintains that the place of residence once Juan Carlos I returns to Spain is already defined. Anyway, the media points out that this agreement is subject to change if unforeseen events occur in the coming months.
https://www.marca.com/tiramillas/actualidad/2021/12/21/61c1c820268e3ea45c8b45d6.html

 

[Prinsara]

So is he back for a visit or back for good?

Where are they going to stash him, in the Extremadura?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

[...] Anyway, the media points out that this agreement is subject to change if unforeseen events occur in the coming months.
https://www.marca.com/tiramillas/actualidad/2021/12/21/61c1c820268e3ea45c8b45d6.html

If the UK courts find in favor of Princess Corinna's allegations that she was threatened and harassed by security services on behalf of King Juan Carlos, would that be considered an "unforeseen event"?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When King Juan Carlos returns to Spain, he should return to reside in the Zarzuela Palace, for security reasons, is my opinion.

I think it is very risky for Juan Carlos to reside elsewhere in Spain other than Zarzuela.

Why only Zarzuela? So many gated properties, so many residences in Spain.

 

[Blog Real]

Why only Zarzuela? So many gated properties, so many residences in Spain.

Yes there are many residences in Spain, but most serve as museums, for someone to live there they would have to undergo alterations.
The only residences where Juan Carlos could live would be the royal residence of La Mareta, in Lanzarote (the late Countess of Barcelona once lived there), or somewhere on the perimeter of Zarzuela Palace, or in a wing of El Pardo Palace ( where heads of state visiting Spain usually stay). I don't see many more options than these, because to live elsewhere, Royal House would have to rent a house for him to live in, which is not impossible.

 

[BriarRose]

It appears, no matter one’s opinion of Juan Carlos, that he has enough personal fiscal resources to provide his own housing and security. Or he could continue living in safety abroad.

I would be surprised to see JC welcomed back to Zarzuela as a permanent home. I do understand that it would be easier from a security standpoint to keep him at Zarzuela, but I also think his actions support billing him for the costs of protecting at a privately owned gated property.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It appears, no matter one’s opinion of Juan Carlos, that he has enough personal fiscal resources to provide his own housing and security. Or he could continue living in safety abroad.

I would be surprised to see JC welcomed back to Zarzuela as a permanent home. I do understand that it would be easier from a security standpoint to keep him at Zarzuela, but I also think his actions support billing him for the costs of protecting at a privately owned gated property.

But Don Juan Carlos is and remains a former head of state with nearly 40 years in office for which the State has a responsibility. Compare it with the protection and assistance former presidents are entitled to in republics.

Of course Don Juan Carlos seems affluent enough to pay for his own security, that is not how it works. The Spanish intelligence and security agencies do not an income assessment but a risk assessment. And when a Spanish citizen has a risk profile, it is up to the state to offer protection.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

But Don Juan Carlos is and remains a former head of state with nearly 40 years in office for which the State has a responsibility. Compare it with the protection and assistance former presidents are entitled to in republics.

Of course Don Juan Carlos seems affluent enough to pay for his own security, that is not how it works. The Spanish intelligence and security agencies do not an income assessment but a risk assessment. And when a Spanish citizen has a risk profile, it is up to the state to offer protection.

I agree with this, any private gated property would be besieged by paparazzi with implications on 'normal' neighborhood. The Spanish state has to pay for him one way or the other, so why not get him back into the compound, if this is what he wants.

It seems that JC wants to get back to Spain temporarily or for good so Felipe has to find an agreement with him, since there is no law that prevents JC from boarding a plane this very moment and fly back to Spain.

 

[Prinsara]

since there is no law that prevents JC from boarding a plane this very moment and fly back to Spain.

Is there a quarantine law in Spain?

 

[An Ard Ri]

When King Juan Carlos returns to Spain, he should return to reside in the Zarzuela Palace, for security reasons, is my opinion.

I think it is very risky for Juan Carlos to reside elsewhere in Spain other than Zarzuela.

I cannot see the king returning to the Zarzuela Palace so long as King Felipe VI continues to use it for daily audiences.
There is a permanent dark cloud over king Juan Carlos.

 

[Blog Real]

I agree with this, any private gated property would be besieged by paparazzi with implications on 'normal' neighborhood. The Spanish state has to pay for him one way or the other, so why not get him back into the compound, if this is what he wants.

It seems that JC wants to get back to Spain temporarily or for good so Felipe has to find an agreement with him, since there is no law that prevents JC from boarding a plane this very moment and fly back to Spain.

I also think. King Juan Carlos wants to return to Spain, they should let him fulfill that wish. Return to reside in the Zarzuela Palace and return to receive at least part (or all) of the money he received as a former head of state, for his maintenance. It was the fairest.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I cannot see the king returning to the Zarzuela Palace so long as King Felipe VI continues to use it for daily audiences.
There is a permanent dark cloud over king Juan Carlos.

But Zarzuela is a sprawling domain with various residences. The former King does not need to sleep in Felipe's house.

Compare it with the Royal Domain of Laeken in Brussels: Philippe at the main castle, Albert II at the Belvédère, Fabiola at Stuyvenberg, Astrid at Schonenberg.

 

[Blog Real]

But Zarzuela is a sprawling domain with various residences. The former King does not need to sleep in Felipe's house.

Compare it with the Royal Domain of Laeken in Brussels: Philippe at the main castle, Albert II at the Belvédère, Fabiola at Stuyvenberg, Astrid at Schonenberg.

Exactly. There are buildings in Zarzuela where King Juan Carlos could stay. It would be the best chance even to guarantee the safety of Juan Carlos.

 

[lula]

But Zarzuela is a sprawling domain with various residences. The former King does not need to sleep in Felipe's house.

Compare it with the Royal Domain of Laeken in Brussels: Philippe at the main castle, Albert II at the Belvédère, Fabiola at Stuyvenberg, Astrid at Schonenberg.

I do not believe that public opinion establishes a difference between the Zarzuela Palace and the enclosure, although the palace is the headquarters of the Head of State, and he continues to live in another building.

Within the enclosure there are no other buildings that are prepared to house Juan Carlos without a major reform, and obviously the government is not willing to pay for a reform. The irony is that Juan Carlos was already paid for the renovation of one of those houses "La Angorrilla", which could have served as a residence for him ... if it were not publicly known that it was there where he lived with Corinna.

In the north of Madrid there are exclusive urbanizations that have high security, and where the press does not access.

 

[Mbruno]

But Zarzuela is a sprawling domain with various residences. The former King does not need to sleep in Felipe's house.

The main residence in the domain (the only "true" palace in fact) is El Pardo, which is now used only to house visiting heads of State. Right now, only Queen Sofia and her sister live in the Zarzuela Palace properly (the former hunting lodge which was expanded with an additional wing during JC's reign). King Felipe VI and his family live in the Prince's Pavillion, which he already occupied as Prince of Asturias, although he uses the Zarzuela Palace for public events and offices of the Royal Household.

 

[An Ard Ri]

But Zarzuela is a sprawling domain with various residences. The former King does not need to sleep in Felipe's house.

Compare it with the Royal Domain of Laeken in Brussels: Philippe at the main castle, Albert II at the Belvédère, Fabiola at Stuyvenberg, Astrid at Schonenberg.

The situation in Belgium is a lot different and JC is constantly surrounded by scandals.
My thinking is out of sight and out of mind.

However the set up at Zarzuela is very odd ,Queen Sofia and her sister at the Palacio and the king and queen/family at the smaller home.
The King and Queen should have moved to the ,main residence in 2014 and Juan Carlos/Sofia moved elsewhere.

 

[Blog Real]

What should have happened in 2014 was Felipe VI and Letizia and their daughters moved to the main building and Juan Carlos, Sofia and Princess Irene to the Pavillion of Prince and/or the house of "La Angorrilla" also in the Zarzuela's enclosure.
It appears that Felipe did not want to make the move to avoid inconvenience for the emeritus kings who had already lived in Zarzuela's main building for many decades, but it would have been the wisest decision.

 

[Somebody]

What should have happened in 2014 was Felipe VI and Letizia and their daughters moved to the main building and Juan Carlos, Sofia and Princess Irene to the Pavilhão do Príncipe and/or the house of "La Angorrilla" also in the Zarzuela's enclosure.
It appears that Felipe did not want to make the move to avoid inconvenience for the emeritus kings who had already lived in Zarzuela's main building for many decades, but it would have been the wisest decision.

Maybe Felipe and Letizia themselves preferred their current home over the Zarzuela main home. I can see how it could be beneficial to separate work and home a bit more in this set up.

 

[BriarRose]

But Don Juan Carlos is and remains a former head of state with nearly 40 years in office for which the State has a responsibility. Compare it with the protection and assistance former presidents are entitled to in republics.

Of course Don Juan Carlos seems affluent enough to pay for his own security, that is not how it works. The Spanish intelligence and security agencies do not an income assessment but a risk assessment. And when a Spanish citizen has a risk profile, it is up to the state to offer protection.

I am clearly not arguing that he shouldn't be afforded protection- but I am arguing that JC, as the former King, should recognize what he has cost the monarchy and voluntarily vacate Zarzuela. I would not be surprised if his son has told him as much. If he resides in Zarzuela, then JC's past actions will reflect on the current monarchy. It will be used to damage the current King's family.

Therefore he should use his vast questionable wealth to live privately and voluntarily reimburse the Spanish taxpayers for any security costs. There are plenty of Spanish citizens who have real security concerns and do not live in Zarzuela. Former Spanish Prime Ministers, I believe, are given government protection without state housing. Legally I don't think he can be forced to reimburse security costs (unless of course he faces criminal charges). But he wasn't legally thrown out of Spain- this is a private negotiation between a son and father.

He made poor choices. And those poor choices should not impede the reputation of better people who did not make the same choices. It's sad. I was a fan of his for many years- he was actually the reason I became interested in modern royals. When the rumors first circulated I fervently hoped that they were not true.

There's also a possible argument that the current King and his children should be the sole residents of Zarzuela. I understand that there isn't a modern precedent of what to do with living former monarchs in Spain. However, in the reverse, there is no precedent that former living monarchs have a right to live in Zarzuela either. I don't believe that naysayers of the monarchy will be placated by the fact that there are many residences on the Zarzuela property.

 

[Blog Real]

I am clearly not arguing that he shouldn't be afforded protection- but I am arguing that JC, as the former King, should recognize what he has cost the monarchy and voluntarily vacate Zarzuela. I would not be surprised if his son has told him as much. If he resides in Zarzuela, then JC's past actions will reflect on the current monarchy. It will be used to damage the current King's family.

Therefore he should use his vast questionable wealth to live privately and voluntarily reimburse the Spanish taxpayers for any security costs. There are plenty of Spanish citizens who have real security concerns and do not live in Zarzuela. Former Spanish Prime Ministers, I believe, are given government protection without state housing. Legally I don't think he can be forced to reimburse security costs (unless of course he faces criminal charges). But he wasn't legally thrown out of Spain- this is a private negotiation between a son and father.

He made poor choices. And those poor choices should not impede the reputation of better people who did not make the same choices. It's sad. I was a fan of his for many years- he was actually the reason I became interested in modern royals. When the rumors first circulated I fervently hoped that they were not true.

There's also a possible argument that the current King and his children should be the sole residents of Zarzuela. I understand that there isn't a modern precedent of what to do with living former monarchs in Spain. However, in the reverse, there is no precedent that former living monarchs have a right to live in Zarzuela either. I don't believe that naysayers of the monarchy will be placated by the fact that there are many residences on the Zarzuela property.

Juan Carlos has the right to live in Zarzuela, whether he should go back to live there is another story, but when he returns to Spain it may be a possibility. I think he no longer has vast wealth, it is said that he even had to ask friends for help to pay what he owed the Spanish tax authorities. Now I have no idea how much money he has available.
As a former head of state he is entitled to security paid by the state, and he cannot be refused.

 

[BriarRose]

Is it actually the law that former monarchs have an explicit right to live in Zarzuela? I’m not arguing - genuinely curious. Again, I am arguing that Felipe should tell him to find another residence, not arguing legal eviction.

(If he blew his illgotten gains, I have zero pity for him. I also wouldn’t believe it. More likely he couldn’t use certain funds without admitting the illegality of those funds.)

 

[Somebody]

La Angorilla seems the best option imho. While on the large El Pardo estate (of which Zarzuela is a part), it is quite a bit behind El Pardo palace and not in the close proximity of Zarzuela nor the king's home. It has some history bit still seems the most sensible option to me - if he is allowed (by his son) to live in Spain again. Yhe added advantage for Felipe is that he can somewhat monitor what his father is up to do which is easier in this set-up than when he is off on his own.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Ugh, can’t they just do what the rest of us with inconvenient elderly relatives do and just put him in a home somewhere? Where is the place in Spain where all the old people live?

 

[lula]

Juan Carlos has no legal right to live in Zarzuela, he and Sofía were allowed to continue living in Zarzuela, but the Count and the Countess of Barcelona, as well as the infantas Elena and Cristina and their families lived in private properties and not State properties, although they were part of the Royal Family then.

"La Angorrilla" is not an appropriate place because it is linked to the scandal and that would only serve to light the bonfire more. Just as El Pardo has always been avoided because it was closely linked to Franco.

The big problem with Juan Carlos is that he got used to living off the State and his friends, and that he wasted instead of investing.

At some point he could have invested in properties in Spain, which while he was king he could have privately owned, or which he could have made available to his family. Instead he invested in properties in Switzerland and London to spend time with his mistress. Now Corinna has mansions, thanks to him, and he does not seem to have, at least in Spain, a house of his property.

Security is not so much an issue. With the years of ETA terrorism, many authorities and former authorities have had security by decision of the Ministry of the Interior, so the use of this type of protection is quite extensive. That the former Head of State has the right to security is within the norm.

I think that when they planned the abdication, they thought that Juan Carlos would continue to be part of the Royal Family and that he would continue to have a certain public function and that would justify his residence, his salary and public privileges ... but the situation has now changed.

Perhaps the most appropriate thing then would have been to establish a series of minimum services for the former Head of State, which were not necessarily linked to the Royal Household. In Spain, there is a statute for former Presidents of the Government, which establishes their treatment in the protocol, the right to diplomatic support outside of Spain, two officials, security, official car and a pay (now about 75,000 euros per year).

But in the current situation to establish something like this is complicated, after the scandals to justify it would be difficult for both the Royal House and the Government (Sánchez has the opposition to the Crown within the government itself with Podemos, so he will not be much help) .

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Juan Carlos has no legal right to live in Zarzuela, he and Sofía were allowed to continue living in Zarzuela, but the Count and the Countess of Barcelona, as well as the infantas Elena and Cristina and their families lived in private properties and not State properties, although they were part of the Royal Family then.

"La Angorrilla" is not an appropriate place because it is linked to the scandal and that would only serve to light the bonfire more. Just as El Pardo has always been avoided because it was closely linked to Franco.

The big problem with Juan Carlos is that he got used to living off the State and his friends, and that he wasted instead of investing.

At some point he could have invested in properties in Spain, which while he was king he could have privately owned, or which he could have made available to his family. Instead he invested in properties in Switzerland and London to spend time with his mistress. Now Corinna has mansions, thanks to him, and he does not seem to have, at least in Spain, a house of his property.

Security is not so much an issue. With the years of ETA terrorism, many authorities and former authorities have had security by decision of the Ministry of the Interior, so the use of this type of protection is quite extensive. That the former Head of State has the right to security is within the norm.

I think that when they planned the abdication, they thought that Juan Carlos would continue to be part of the Royal Family and that he would continue to have a certain public function and that would justify his residence, his salary and public privileges ... but the situation has now changed.

Perhaps the most appropriate thing then would have been to establish a series of minimum services for the former Head of State, which were not necessarily linked to the Royal Household. In Spain, there is a statute for former Presidents of the Government, which establishes their treatment in the protocol, the right to diplomatic support outside of Spain, two officials, security, official car and a pay (now about 75,000 euros per year).

But in the current situation to establish something like this is complicated, after the scandals to justify it would be difficult for both the Royal House and the Government (Sánchez has the opposition to the Crown within the government itself with Podemos, so he will not be much help) .

Every civil servant, every member of Parliament, every Government minister has a pension fund. But there are no pension funds for Kings. They do not get an income with a slip: "This is bruto and then this off, that off, etc. This is your netto income". Kings usually get an annual dotation which they use for the proper workings of their House and of course as personal income.

But as they retire, it is the norm that States prolongue an annual dotation to the abdicated King, by form of pension scheme. I think that is very reasonable unless the King becomes a civil servant himself, has a work contract for 36 hours a week, gets a monthly salary from the Department of the Interior and becomes a participant in the Pension Fund for civil servants. But that is so diametrical to the nature of the Kingship. (In my country the King appoints and dismisses ministers, by law. Now he should be a civil servant under the minister he appointed and will dismiss?)

In short: it is logical that a person who has been a future King, a reigning King, a former King all his/her life receives an income for life. After all neither Felipe nor Leonor have any choice: this is where they were born for and most likely in any monarchy it is "undesireable" to see the (future) King in a dependent relation to thirds or to pursue an own commercial business.