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  #141  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:42 AM
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In Spain you can renounce an inheritance, but that relinquishment is not legal or effective until the testator dies ... that is why King Felipe has declared it before a notary, to give it a certain legal value.

Unfortunately, the anti-monarchy parties and press have intentionally misinformed people to campaign against the Monarchy at a time of national crisis... probably to cover up their lousy management of that crisis.

The money was never from the Spanish, the money is from Arab monarchies... it would be in any case a fiscal issue, but not one of appropriation of public funds.

Juan Carlos has not had that money for 8 years, that money was transferred to Corinna's accounts and it is she who controls and spends it ... as the Swiss prosecution has investigated. So it is impossible for him to donate that money, because it has not been his for years.

I believe that at the time of abdication, Juan Carlos was forced to organize his financial affairs ... for example, the foundation and the accounts of this case were closed 8 years ago. So I don't think that when he passes away there will be big problems. Other things from the past may come out, but not anything from recent years.
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  #142  
Old 03-25-2020, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The money was never from the Spanish, the money is from Arab monarchies... it would be in any case a fiscal issue, but not one of appropriation of public funds.
What Juan Carlos has done with that money is still money laundering though, regardless of where the money came from

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cecilia.../#8ee6285480aa
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  #143  
Old 03-28-2020, 08:41 PM
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I think we are forgetting something very important. And is that the money that King Juan Carlos received of King of Arabia Saudi through that foundation where his cousin Orleans was, really was an instrument, because the money from that foundation did not stay inside, King Juan Carlos sent it to Corinna, the recipient of the money was Corinna. And I think that this is what is being investigated in Switzerland, the use of that Foundation as an instrument ... It is obvious that the great real beneficiary of that money is Corinna. If King Juan Carlos wanted this money to Corinna, he should have created an account with his name or a figurehead, and directly entered it to Corinna's accounts. In my opinion they, Juan Carlos and Corinna, used the foundation to avoid raising suspicions about them.
I see it this way: The King Juan carlos named his son King Felipe (without saying anythingo King Felipe, King Felipe did not know nothing of it), as a beneficiary of a foundation, which acted as an instrument to transfer the money of King Juan Carlos to her lover, without raising suspicions about her, or about him.
In conclusion, King Felipe was not or will be beneficiary of ANYTHING, because his father was emptying the Foundation in favor of his lover.
Corinna is the real beneficiary of the money.
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  #144  
Old 03-29-2020, 09:33 AM
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Please note that this thread has been cleaned up with speculative posts and replies have been deleted.
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  #145  
Old 04-22-2020, 06:20 AM
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Interesting article from El Pais (05/04/20) about the Saudi minister who authorized the $100 mil payment and some of the technical details of the financial processes involved:

https://english.elpais.com/internati...an-carlos.html

If anything this says more about how rich the Saudi royals are if they can throw around the GDP of a small country in that fashion.
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  #146  
Old 05-03-2020, 03:44 AM
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Juan Carlos’s former financial manager Arturo Fanasa tells Swiss prosecutors that he was given 1.7 mil Euros by Juan Carlos In cash to place in one of the kings Swiss bank accounts, as part of a deal involving a gift from the emir of Bahrain:

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_n...obe-shows.html
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  #147  
Old 05-03-2020, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Juan Carlos’s former financial manager Arturo Fanasa tells Swiss prosecutors that he was given 1.7 mil Euros by Juan Carlos In cash to place in one of the kings Swiss bank accounts, as part of a deal involving a gift from the emir of Bahrain:

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_n...obe-shows.html
That suggests JC’s secret funds went far beyond the Saudi money that alleged was transferred to Corinna. Moreover, it is clear that Felipe was indeed the beneficiary of the Bahrain account held through the Panamanian foundation. Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
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  #148  
Old 05-03-2020, 12:18 PM
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My question is, why would Juan Carlos name his son and heir as a beneficiary to something highly controversial as this? And this even without telling him??
It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that money like this would be under immense scrutiny, the story coming out at some point and questions asked, something that would always pose a serious thread to a King and the monarchy.

In 2010 the Noos case was clearly coming along, Inaki had been sent to Washington trying to calm things down. So Juan Carlos must have known at this stage, that the press already had a change of attitude and would not stop digging.

In terms of recklessness, it's one thing to go with a mistress to Botswana and shoot an elephant, but another to take that kind of money and name the future King as beneficiary and not telling him about it?
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  #149  
Old 05-03-2020, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
That suggests JC’s secret funds went far beyond the Saudi money that alleged was transferred to Corinna. Moreover, it is clear that Felipe was indeed the beneficiary of the Bahrain account held through the Panamanian foundation. Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
He has to pretend he knew nothing to keep his throne.
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  #150  
Old 05-03-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
My question is, why would Juan Carlos name his son and heir as a beneficiary to something highly controversial as this? And this even without telling him??
I suspect that Felipe and everybody else knew these accounts existed but there was a sort of “don’t ask don’t tell” situation as to the question of where the money came from. It also does not mean that they were going to be the ones benefiting from the specific accounts or trust in question - i suspect that Felipe and his sisters were named to avoid suspicion but the money was in fact probably intended for other recipients or the accounts were intended as rainy day funds four JC’s own use.

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It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that money like this would be under immense scrutiny, the story coming out at some point and questions asked, something that would always pose a serious thread to a King and the monarchy.
The whole SRF have been coddled behind a wall of industrial grade deference from the mainstream media in Spain for some time. The rested on their laurels and really did not see it coming. Also, this Kind of wheeling and dealing was widespread during the Franco years And long afterwards - for Juan Carlos at least, it was just business as usual and he can’t tell the difference anymore, if he was able to in the first place.

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In 2010 the Noos case was clearly coming along, Inaki had been sent to Washington trying to calm things down. So Juan Carlos must have known at this stage, that the press already had a change of attitude and would not stop digging.
In 1992 a similar set of scandals happened involving the missing funds from the Kuwait investment office, JC’s relationship with Marta Gaya becoming public knowledge and a variety of other problems including allegations of blackmail - what happened then was that the politicians rallied around the king and JC rode the crisis out. That seems to have been a turning point for JC as he really seems to have come to believe that he was indispensable and therefore untouchable.

(All of this also, incidentally, was the final nail in the proverbial coffin for him and Sofia’s relationship - a major and i believe underrated factor in JC going off the rails as much as he did. The death of his father in 1993 probably did not help either.)

I guess he was hoping the same might happen again, but he’s been so isolated and cut off from reality for so long i suspect he did not grasp just how much the media landscape changed on account of greater commercial pressure and the internet; along with a generational shift from those who were alive when the transition happened and those born after it has also lead to greater skepticism around his reputation, and hence were less willing to defer.

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In terms of recklessness, it's one thing to go with a mistress to Botswana and shoot an elephant, but another to take that kind of money and name the future King as beneficiary and not telling him about it?
As a I pointed out above It seems possible that Naming Felipe As the accounts beneficiary was a ruse Avoid suspicion, although that could be incorrect -who knows?

It’s not impossible, though, that JC’s poor health, his estrangement from his family, that his circle of friends are either dying or avoiding him, the chips on his shoulders from his upbringing, his tenuous grip on reality, and the fact that the reaper isn’t too far away may have engendered a certain “Apres le moi, le deluge” Mentality? He seems to have abandoned it now That the investigators are coming for him, but up until recently, to me at least, it did look that way.
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  #151  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:09 AM
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Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
It’s Sofia’s knowledge of these accounts, payments and trusts that I would like to know more about, given both how far back the allegations against Juan Carlos go and how her own personal finances are Somewhat sketchy; it would certainly explain a great deal about certain events and decisions that have been made by both Of them over the past three decades.
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  #152  
Old 05-04-2020, 07:53 AM
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Considering the emeritus kings have been a couple in name only for several decades I am not quite sure how Sofia needs to be involved. As much of JC's money issues somehow have Corinna Larsen in the middle of it, I doubt the Queen Emerita would be involved. How are her own finances 'somewhat sketchy'? I do not recall having read anything about it but I may have missed it of course.
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  #153  
Old 05-04-2020, 08:25 AM
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Considering the emeritus kings have been a couple in name only for several decades I am not quite sure how Sofia needs to be involved. As much of JC's money issues somehow have Corinna Larsen in the middle of it, I doubt the Queen Emerita would be involved. How are her own finances 'somewhat sketchy'? I do not recall having read anything about it but I may have missed it of course.
No, her and JC have not lived together for some time, but that does not change the fact that they did for some time, under those cirumstances you’d know that other person very well for good or ill, which makes me think that Sofia would be totally ignorant of all this somewhat hard to swallow.

Sofia herself has, despite the PR fluff and her humanitarian work, also lead a pretty self indulgent life over the past few decades, one that her relatively meager inheritance, controversial dowry and personal wealth would probably not cover; and under the circumstances, have enough common sense not to use her portion of the SRF’s government funding for.

Has there not always been the implication that as quid pro quo for staying quiet about everything and allowing him a cigarette papers width of plausible deniability, JC would pick up the tab for S’s personal expenses and not threaten her status as Queen and mother of the future king? it has to be said it’s hard to look at it any other way.

I’m also talking about the broader context of improper finances over the past 3-4 decades by the SRF as a whole. She certainly has always seemed very blasé about this kind of financial behavior compared to other things - look at how she acted over the Noos business. She sued the Greek government over her inheritance back in the 1990s and is clearly not shy of demanding what she sees as owing to her.
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  #154  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:18 AM
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Adding to that: Nobody ever said a word about Princess Irene living with Queen Sofia in La Zarzuela what is no private property of the SRF.

Can somebody imagine Letizia's sister moving into their house as a freeloader and the press keeping quiet about it?
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  #155  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:18 AM
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Of course Doña Sofía knows/knew about it.

She married a Prince from a Royal House in exile for decades, eating into the private wealth to maintain. Now she herself comes from a Royal House in exile for decades, eating into the private wealth to maintain.

Both Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía know from own experience how drastically a situation can change: Doña Sofía's spouse gained a throne, Doña Sofía's brother lost a throne.

Yet the couple has always lived the good life. Doña Sofía's sister lives on the royal compound, is accomodated, secured, transported, given facilitary assistance, etc. all for the purse of the Spanish taxpayers.

That is all okay, but having experienced these seismic changes in their respective royal lives, it is no wonder that since 1975 the impoverished Spanish royal family wants one thing: security for the unsecure future. One never knows. It is all not very high morale but when one has been in surviving modus as a desposed Royal House, it is understandable that there is a bigger fixation on accumulating wealth it than Don Felipe maybe has (or pretends not to have).
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  #156  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:11 PM
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Princess Irene, Queen Letizia's mother, and any other person can live in the Zarzuela palace. This is legal and constitutional.

King Felipe receives an amount of money established in the General State Budget Law, this law is proposed by the government and approved by the Parliament every year.

The amounts destined for the King are from King Felipe, and he can freely dispose of that money.

He is the usufructuary of palace, it means, that the maintenance of the palace is done by the King with that money, he pays his servants, they are not state officials, he paid them , consider appropriate him .... That money belongs to the King, and the King distributes it freely. This is established in the Spanish Constitution:
Article 65
<<1. El Rey recibe de los Presupuestos del Estado una cantidad global para el sostenimiento de su Familia y Casa, y distribuye libremente la misma.

2. El Rey nombra y releva libremente a los miembros civiles y militares de su Casa.>>

This is not you money, this is King Felipe's money and he distributes it, if you don't like what he spends his money on, that's your problem.

The King does not pass his bills on to the Spanish people as you affirm, in Spain it does not work that way. He receives his allocation from the general state budget, and he freely disposes of it, he can live as he wants and with whatever he wants, as long as he pays it from his budgetary allocation.

All the presidents of the government of Spain, have lived in the Moncloa palace with their relatives, Sánchez is living with his in-laws, his wife and in-laws left the palace to avoid infecting the President of the government with the coronavirus, Rajoy lived with in the Moncloa palace with his wife, children, and his father, who was very ill and cared for in palace, Zapatero remembered that he lived with his wife, and his in-laws, and Aznar lived in Moncloa with his parents and his children, Felipe Gonzalez, brought his parents into the palace, and Adolfo Suarez. ..... And that is not only unique, the houses for ministers also allow them to live with their families. In Spain it is legal.

Princess Irene has an international solidarity foundation, which has its headquarters in Madrid, most of the businessmen who donate and collaborate in the projects of this foundation are foreigners(no spanish), this foundation has important international solidarity projects open, and at the having its headquarters in Spain, computes like spanish. The Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs thanked the foundation for its collaboration in managing projects to help Syrian refugee children.

You are seriously accusing King Felipe, his mother, and his sisters, of these events in order to defend King Juan Carlos or to attack the entire institution.

King Juan Carlos was a member of a Foundation in Switzerland, in this foundation money from Arab countries , entered without justification, this is not a crime in Switzerland, but, later that money was transferred as a donation, by the foundation to a bank account in the foreigner of Corinna, she was lover of King Juan Carlos. This is what the judge investigates this lady, because the money did not stay in Switzerland, it went to the bank accounts of this woman. She is involved in legal proceedings.

A year ago, Corinna's lawyers sent a letter to King Felipe, informing him that his father was the owner of that foundation, and that he had been named beneficiary in the documents.

King Felipe, became aware through this letter from this foundation, and went to a notary to certify the content of the letter, it was then that he renounced the inheritance in writing from his father. He brought it to the attention of the Spanish authorities. King Felipe did not know anything about this foundation, it was a year ago when in a letter from Corinna's lawyers they informed him of the existence of the foundation.

The letter is quite clear, Corinna knew that King Felipe was unaware of his father's activities, so she and her lawers send him. The letter whose content is clear.



King Juan Carlos bought residences, transferred money to his lovers, at no time did he transfer or buy anything, his son, his wife or his daughters.

When it would be published that he made transfers in favor of his son, his wife and his daughters , please you could publish it,it would be surprise...the money of this foundation was for his lover. In Spain , the lovers are not members of the Royal Family.

King Juan Carlos has enjoyed, as previously said, the approval of the press, he has had very well-paid lovers.

King Felipe is doing a great job, it is not fair, that those who consider loyal defenders of King Juan Carlos, they defend King Juan Carlos imputing to King Felipe all the illegal acts that Juan carlos has committed with his lovers.

King Juan Carlos and his lovers know what they have done or were doing.


Is a son guilty of what his father and his lover do? Is a son forced to know what his father does, and his lover?
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  #157  
Old 05-06-2020, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
Princess Irene, Queen Letizia's mother, and any other person can live in the Zarzuela palace. This is legal and constitutional.

King Felipe receives an amount of money established in the General State Budget Law, this law is proposed by the government and approved by the Parliament every year.

The amounts destined for the King are from King Felipe, and he can freely dispose of that money.

He is the usufructuary of palace, it means, that the maintenance of the palace is done by the King with that money, he pays his servants, they are not state officials, he paid them , consider appropriate him .... That money belongs to the King, and the King distributes it freely. This is established in the Spanish Constitution:
Article 65
<<1. El Rey recibe de los Presupuestos del Estado una cantidad global para el sostenimiento de su Familia y Casa, y distribuye libremente la misma.

2. El Rey nombra y releva libremente a los miembros civiles y militares de su Casa.>>

This is not you money, this is King Felipe's money and he distributes it, if you don't like what he spends his money on, that's your problem.

The King does not pass his bills on to the Spanish people as you affirm, in Spain it does not work that way. He receives his allocation from the general state budget, and he freely disposes of it, he can live as he wants and with whatever he wants, as long as he pays it from his budgetary allocation
Point taken. Still remember how surprised some folks were when it came out that Prince Charles had been letting Camilla’s aged father Maj. Shand be cared for with them in Clarence House.

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All the presidents of the government of Spain, have lived in the Moncloa palace with their relatives, Sánchez is living with his in-laws, his wife and in-laws left the palace to avoid infecting the President of the government with the coronavirus, Rajoy lived with in the Moncloa palace with his wife, children, and his father, who was very ill and cared for in palace, Zapatero remembered that he lived with his wife, and his in-laws, and Aznar lived in Moncloa with his parents and his children, Felipe Gonzalez, brought his parents into the palace, and Adolfo Suarez. ..... And that is not only unique, the houses for ministers also allow them to live with their families. In Spain it is legal.
Point also taken, but adult siblings and healthy parents who are able to take care of them selves are not the same as elderly parents, spouses, and children.

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Princess Irene has an international solidarity foundation, which has its headquarters in Madrid, most of the businessmen who donate and collaborate in the projects of this foundation are foreigners(no spanish), this foundation has important international solidarity projects open, and at the having its headquarters in Spain, computes like spanish. The Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs thanked the foundation for its collaboration in managing projects to help Syrian refugee children.
That’s admirable. Still doesn’t change the fact that she was living in Spanish state property on taxpayer money that she was not entitled to.

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You are seriously accusing King Felipe, his mother, and his sisters, of these events in order to defend King Juan Carlos or to attack the entire institution.
Given that Juan Carlos has a long history of using money to control those around him, and buy their affections, loyalty, and silence, its not an accusation - its a legitimate question of how much the immediate family all of whom depended on JC for their wealth And lifestyles knew about these activities.

I’m not Spanish and don’t have a dog in this fight, but i believe that the people of Spain deserve to know the truth. The RF are only making things worse for themselves by the lies and cover ups. They’re doing a good job of attacking themselves, they don’t need somebody like me to do that for them.

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King Juan Carlos was a member of a Foundation in Switzerland, in this foundation money from Arab countries , entered without justification, this is not a crime in Switzerland, but, later that money was transferred as a donation, by the foundation to a bank account in the foreigner of Corinna, she was lover of King Juan Carlos. This is what the judge investigates this lady, because the money did not stay in Switzerland, it went to the bank accounts of this woman. She is involved in legal proceedings.

A year ago, Corinna's lawyers sent a letter to King Felipe, informing him that his father was the owner of that foundation, and that he had been named beneficiary in the documents.

King Felipe, became aware through this letter from this foundation, and went to a notary to certify the content of the letter, it was then that he renounced the inheritance in writing from his father. He brought it to the attention of the Spanish authorities. King Felipe did not know anything about this foundation, it was a year ago when in a letter from Corinna's lawyers they informed him of the existence of the foundation.

The letter is quite clear, Corinna knew that King Felipe was unaware of his father's activities, so she and her lawers send him. The letter whose content is clear.
That’s what she says. From what I’ve heard these kind of undeclared accounts are still technically tax evasion in Spain. Also, don’t you think that Felipe would have put 2 and 2 together on his own about his possible inherence by now?

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King Juan Carlos bought residences, transferred money to his lovers, at no time did he transfer or buy anything, his son, his wife or his daughters.

When it would be published that he made transfers in favor of his son, his wife and his daughters , please you could publish it,it would be surprise...the money of this foundation was for his lover. In Spain , the lovers are not members of the Royal Family.

King Juan Carlos has enjoyed, as previously said, the approval of the press, he has had very well-paid lovers.
I recall that there are reports of JC buying or building a pretty large property for F during his Batchelor days. Didn’t he also chip into Christina’s property as well?

Hasn’t One of Sofia’s many marital gripes been that JC was trying to buy the affections of their children as to isolate her within the family?

It’s pretty much fact that he tried to keep Letizia on a short financial leash because he didn’t like her.

The point I’m trying to make is the fact that the whole family have been financially dependent on JC to one extent or another - the fact that he’s given money out to others doesn’t change the fact that members of the RF have probably been taking his dirty money as well.

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King Felipe is doing a great job, it is not fair, that those who consider loyal defenders of King Juan Carlos, they defend King Juan Carlos imputing to King Felipe all the illegal acts that Juan carlos has committed with his lovers.

King Juan Carlos and his lovers know what they have done or were doing.
I’m not going to go into Felipes performance as King - that’s for another thread - but i want to spell out that i am not Defending Juan Carlos. Trying to understand someone on their own terms is not the same thing as defending them, nor is asking how their relationships with those around them affect their behavior, or the actions of other people.

I’m interested in knowing where this all came from and how this fits into the dynamics of the family - that is not the same thing as ‘impugning’ somebody.

All the facts i have pointed out above are valid points to consider and the question of the involvement of F, his mother and sisters in this is a perfectly acceptable line of questioning. I could be wrong and JC simply could just be a bad apple but given how these things work I strongly suspect not.

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Is a son guilty of what his father and his lover do? Is a son forced to know what his father does, and his lover?
If what the father did was in the name of an institution that the son was set to inherit and the actions were ostensibly taken in the son’s name, than its acceptable to ask and examine the sons possible knowledge and role iN these actions. That’s not the same as guilt.
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  #158  
Old 06-08-2020, 08:55 AM
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN23F17K

Spain's supreme court investigates former king Juan Carlos on Saudi case

Daily Mail article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...di-Arabia.html
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  #159  
Old 06-08-2020, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-s...-idUSKBN23F17K

Spain's supreme court investigates former king Juan Carlos on Saudi case

Daily Mail article
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...di-Arabia.html
So what’s the chance of this actually amounting to something? Part of me suspects its mostly damage control on account of the international dimension; and that the investigation is mostly to come up with an excuse not to dig any deeper.
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  #160  
Old 06-12-2020, 01:42 AM
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First, make excuses for my poor English grammar. I hope that everything I want to say is understood, and if not, I apologize in advance.
Felipe has had his assignment as prince of Asturias, so he has not benefited in any way from the business that his father might have, and above all, if we consider that for many years, Juan Carlos went from lover to lover and that in them it does seem that the money from those businesses was being spent.
Felipe has NEVER had a life of luxury.When Felipe married, the marriage lived on the assignment of Felipe since nothing was granted to the princess. That money went to Juan Carlos's lover-s.
The princes, now king and queen, do not have summer mansions outside the country, they have not done expensive remodeling of their homes ... In fact when they got married, Princess Letizia said "everything is fine" ... because they never wanted live in luxury. Good, but without excesses. They travel in a particular way to destinations where anyone who travels can go. They do not hide in mansions of friends or rent mansions. Felipe and Letizia were the ones that used the yacht "Fortuna" the least, and the Somni boat.
Princess Letizia visited very little expensive brand during her princess years and only when she became queen, could she spend any more on her wardrobe.
In fact, Felipe and Letizia have saved from the scarce budget they have, two consecutive years: 2018 and 2019 and it was made public.
I know of no other royal couple who have "saved" from such a tight budget.
Felipe and Letizia distanced themselves from Cristina and Iñaki precisely because of the luxurious life
It has been said that Felipe and Letizia had no contact with Juan Carlos except as necessary and in fact we have not seen almost photos with their granddaughters, Leonor and Sofía.
Everything indicates that Felipe if he suspected something, certainly did not agree, and did not benefit at all.
I think there is a previous inheritance from Don Juan, Count of Barcelona, to which Felipe does have the right and should not resign. I imagine that what he renounces is the money that his lover, Corinna, managed and controlled.

In Spain we know that Felipe is honest; He has a fairly simple life compared to other royalty, and has been that way forever.
Trying to mix it up in their father's affairs is a lost mission, because nobody can force a father to be honest, is it? Are the children of Urdangarín to blame for what their father did?
I think it is better to wonder if Sofia knew about her husband's business or simply took the money without asking, because Sofia has traveled all the time, has bought jewelry, has lived in London and Greece ... as long as she has wanted. .. Sofia has not led an austere life.
But trying to mix Felipe in this matter is a bit of a laugh. It is my opinion.
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