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  #121  
Old 03-16-2020, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANNIE_S View Post
There is absolutely zero change for the monarchy to not fall after this, an unofficial confirmation of JC's (never ever putting the "king" title before his name, he lost his right to the title long ago).

Actually King Felipe VI decreed in 2014 that his father shall enjoy the title of King wth the style of Majesty as long as JC is alive and shall have precedence right next to King Felipe's descendants and honors equal to those of the heir to the Crown. Has the King revoked his 2014 decree ?




Quote:


Don Juan Carlos de Borbón, padre del Rey Don Felipe VI, continuará vitaliciamente en el uso con carácter honorífico del título de Rey, con tratamiento de Majestad y honores análogos a los establecidos para el Heredero de la Corona, Príncipe o Princesa de Asturias, en el Real Decreto 684/2010, de 20 de mayo, por el que se aprueba el Reglamento de Honores Militares.
Doña Sofía de Grecia, madre del Rey Don Felipe VI, continuará vitaliciamente en el uso con carácter honorífico del título de Reina, con tratamiento de Majestad y honores análogos a los establecidos para la Princesa o el Príncipe de Asturias consortes en dicho Real Decreto.
El orden de precedencia de los Reyes Don Juan Carlos y Doña Sofía en el Ordenamiento General de Precedencias del Estado, aprobado por el Real Decreto 2099/1983, de 4 de agosto, será el inmediatamente posterior a los descendientes del Rey Don Felipe VI.

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  #122  
Old 03-16-2020, 09:05 PM
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Haven't been able to read the whole story yet but it's a bit confusing so far (although it did make the Dutch news stating that the inheritance won't be accepted and that Felipe now completely separates himself from his father just like he did with his sister).
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  #123  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:23 AM
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Maybe the moderators can merge this thread with the corruption thread of Juan Carlos, I think this is about the same thing.

German Spiegel newspaper writes 'King Felipe fighting off the Corinna-Virus'
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...1-3d81cc9a5efb
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  #124  
Old 03-17-2020, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Haven't been able to read the whole story yet but it's a bit confusing so far (although it did make the Dutch news stating that the inheritance won't be accepted and that Felipe now completely separates himself from his father just like he did with his sister).



Is Queen Sofía still receiving an allowance? If so, she risks being seen as a proxy for JC.


Unlike Cristina, JC and Sofía are still legally members of the official Royal Family under the royal decree 2917/1981. Furthermore, they are entitled to the honorific title of King and Queen with the style of Majesty under the royal decree 470/2014.



So, unless King Felipe has amended the aforementioned RDs, I disagree that his parents have been completely separated from the Royal House.


PS: For a comprehensive list of Spanish legislation regarding titles and membership of the Royal Family, civil and military orders and other royal decorations, and concession of and succession to titles of nobility, I recommend the following site:


https://www.boe.es/legislacion/codig...1&nota=0&tab=2
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  #125  
Old 03-17-2020, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Didn’t. the Spanish parliament stop the investigation on the grounds that JC had immunity under Art 65 of the constitution?

Felipe is basically throwing his father under the bus, while pretending that he didn’t know he was the beneficiary of the offshore funds, which I find highly unlikely. It doesn’t look good to me.
Yes, I find it interesting that everyone is so willing to give Felipe the benefit of the doubt based on nothing more than his word, (and the word of his father).

. My understanding is Felipe alone would be the beneficiary of the fund.. this in response to one poster referring to the money being left to his children - nice way to attempt to spread the mess around, though! He was instructed to use it at his discretion to support his mother, sisters and their children - to provide maintenance and grant them “reasonable” requests, but the responsibility of how the fund would be administered would be all his.

It would be pretty, um, let’s be generous and say unusual, for someone to entrust their heir with that level of wealth and responsibility without saying a word to said heir. Especially since the SRF is supposed to be relatively poor and this would be a significant change in their financial fortunes. J.C. didn’t mention it when the fund was set up? He didn’t mention it to clarify what Felipe’s responsibilities would be towards his sister and her children once it became apparent Felipe and Cristina were estranged? He still thought the fact that the fund had existed wasn’t worth mentioning when Felipe became the Spanish Head of State?

To me all Felipe’s declaration means is that he and his father are 100 percent sure they are the only two people who knew Felipe was aware of this inheritance. Anything more than that requires that we suspend disbelief and take them at their word.
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  #126  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:17 PM
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Juan Carlos made his own life, I do not think he asked anyone for permission or explained what he did or did not do. If he had had to explain what he was doing, many would have stopped him.

What's more, Juan Carlos has a certain reputation for being miser (and especially with his son, it seems that he has helped his daughters more), and from what we discover, he was much more splendid with his friends than with his family. He is also quite old-fashioned, so he left the bargain to Felipe to help the women of the family, instead of giving each one a part.

Let's say he followed a "family tradition", his father and grandfather had an account with similar characteristics to help the family. In these foundations, the beneficiaries only have powers upon the death of the owner, and it is possible that not only did Felipe appear, but in case something happened to him, he would have appointed other substitutes.

In any case, the foundation closed in 2012 and all the money ended up in a Corinna account ... I don't think he asked her son for permission either.
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  #127  
Old 03-17-2020, 07:16 PM
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Personally , based on my own reading of HM King Felipe , he is much more his mother's son than his father's . I have no doubt that he has a lot of respect for his father's political achievement's , whilst deploring his private action's .
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  #128  
Old 03-19-2020, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Maybe the moderators can merge this thread with the corruption thread of Juan Carlos, I think this is about the same thing.

German Spiegel newspaper writes 'King Felipe fighting off the Corinna-Virus'
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/leut...1-3d81cc9a5efb
That's been done and the newest thread should not have been created when there were 2 other threads already in existences.
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  #129  
Old 03-19-2020, 06:58 PM
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Interesting news and a good move IMO by Felipe. He seems to be more organised in running Casa Real so far.
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  #130  
Old 03-19-2020, 09:31 PM
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This is normal that investment funds, life insurance, foundations ... require as a legal requirement, in Spain or Switzerland, that their owners establish the name of the person who would be beneficiary, in case the owner dies. The beneficiary does not have why know it. In Spain, there is a registry of wills and beneficiaries of all types of financiers packages, life insurance, pension plans, even bank accounts that require the owner to name a beneficiary in the contract.
This register of wills and beneficiaries have purpose notify to the beneficiaries after the death of the person who appointed them, as such, of the existence of those amounts in their favor
This foundation only establishes that King Felipe is a beneficiary, nothing else is specified in it.

King Felipe did not know about this data, last year the Corinna's lawyers (who were not looking for anything good) sent a letter to King Felipe saying that his father had named him beneficiary of this Foundation. King Felipe knew nothing, and would not have known until his father had passed away, if the lawyers of this lady who is being investigated by a prosecutor, they sent that letter to the king.

The King Felipe from the moment he had knowledge of that information, and fearing what this lady is trying to do to defend against the accusations that fall on her,Felipe went to a notary, and declared, that he had no knowledge of it, delivering the letter sent to him by these lawyers The document of a notary is in Spain a judicial proof, the King accompanied it of the letter from this lady's lawyers, which shows that King Felipe was informed by this letter of this information.

King Philip has acted correctly. His father's problems are his father's,, Corinna is trying to find excuses to get rid of the judicial investigations opened about her in London and Switzerland.
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  #131  
Old 03-19-2020, 09:47 PM
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Do you think this issue will harm the monarchy?

This is all very unfair to King Felipe VI, who has done a good job as King.
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  #132  
Old 03-19-2020, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Juan Carlos made his own life, I do not think he asked anyone for permission or explained what he did or did not do. If he had had to explain what he was doing, many would have stopped him.

What's more, Juan Carlos has a certain reputation for being miser (and especially with his son, it seems that he has helped his daughters more), and from what we discover, he was much more splendid with his friends than with his family. He is also quite old-fashioned, so he left the bargain to Felipe to help the women of the family, instead of giving each one a part.

Let's say he followed a "family tradition", his father and grandfather had an account with similar characteristics to help the family. In these foundations, the beneficiaries only have powers upon the death of the owner, and it is possible that not only did Felipe appear, but in case something happened to him, he would have appointed other substitutes.

In any case, the foundation closed in 2012 and all the money ended up in a Corinna account ... I don't think he asked her son for permission either.
Miserly with his son? It was through JC that Felipe inherited the Spanish throne, with free, luxurious housing, upkeep, household staff, transportation, security, etc. His very generous salary is essentially fun money.The only living expenses that Felipe has is the education of his daughters and luxuries like vacations. What reason would JC have to give Felipe financial help?

JC doesn’t need to explain how he spends his own money. And if his plan was to split the money in a straightforward manner between his wife and children he might conceivably choose to not talk to any of them about his plans. But, instead, JC made detailed financial arrangements with the management of the bulk of the funds being entrusted to one person. Again, it would be unusual for someone to go through the trouble of putting these structures in place and instructing the heir in writing to provide for the rest of the family without at least telling him the funds exist. Much more common would be several detailed conversations over time, unofficially and one on one, or on record with the family’s wealth management team.

At the very least, Felipe has known about this for some time. He took immediate steps to protect himself. The exemplary, (Felipe’s favourite word), thing to do would have been to inform the Spanish public very soon afterward. But instead, he waited to address the issue until the level of media coverage couldn’t be ignored.

Felipe revoked his sister’s title even though she insisted she did not know she was benefitting from her husband’s financial crimes, and even though he knew that, legally, her case was straightforward and she would not be found guilty of any crime.

For those who have pointed out that “everyone knows” Cristina’s word couldn’t be trusted and defended Felipe’s decision by saying the fact that Cristina didn’t do anything illegal wasn’t the issue, but rather the very high standard she had failed to uphold: what consequence should Felipe impose on himself if it turns out these foundations weren’t entirely legal?
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  #133  
Old 03-20-2020, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post

Do you think this issue will harm the monarchy?

This is all very unfair to King Felipe VI, who has done a good job as King.
King Felipe is doing an excellent service to the Spanish state, but the Spanish republican press is taking advantage of the moment country's economic situation with tax increases and cuts in wages ..... to publish the scandals of King Juan Carlos, They know that these scandals will seriously harm the monarchy.
To this we must add Corinna, who is involved in various judicial processes, her lawyers seek strategies to prevent her from being prosecuted, and it is obvious that they are ready for anything.
King Juan Carlos must also be noted that he has acted in this matter in a very irresponsible, incomprehensible, and damaging way for the monarchy, the Spanish press published that a year ago he went to London to see Corinna, she was the one who said it and she has given the date of the visit. He should have definitely broken with that lady for the good of the monarchy.
King Felipe has had to make a very hard decision for him, but, he has been forced by the situation, his father's problems must be his father's, it should not extend to the monarchy, and the only way of being able to obtain it is breaking with his father.
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  #134  
Old 03-20-2020, 07:35 AM
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The Spanish press has far better things to do then to publish crap!!Corona and the toll of victims and why exactly it is so high!!That is the main feature now.King Felipe acted perfectly,no one can critisize that in any which way!
His dad is the once hero of democracy but became the sort of type he is now,and dispised.
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  #135  
Old 03-20-2020, 10:10 PM
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Well said!!!
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Miserly with his son? It was through JC that Felipe inherited the Spanish throne, with free, luxurious housing, upkeep, household staff, transportation, security, etc. His very generous salary is essentially fun money.The only living expenses that Felipe has is the education of his daughters and luxuries like vacations. What reason would JC have to give Felipe financial help?

JC doesn’t need to explain how he spends his own money. And if his plan was to split the money in a straightforward manner between his wife and children he might conceivably choose to not talk to any of them about his plans. But, instead, JC made detailed financial arrangements with the management of the bulk of the funds being entrusted to one person. Again, it would be unusual for someone to go through the trouble of putting these structures in place and instructing the heir in writing to provide for the rest of the family without at least telling him the funds exist. Much more common would be several detailed conversations over time, unofficially and one on one, or on record with the family’s wealth management team.

At the very least, Felipe has known about this for some time. He took immediate steps to protect himself. The exemplary, (Felipe’s favourite word), thing to do would have been to inform the Spanish public very soon afterward. But instead, he waited to address the issue until the level of media coverage couldn’t be ignored.

Felipe revoked his sister’s title even though she insisted she did not know she was benefitting from her husband’s financial crimes, and even though he knew that, legally, her case was straightforward and she would not be found guilty of any crime.

For those who have pointed out that “everyone knows” Cristina’s word couldn’t be trusted and defended Felipe’s decision by saying the fact that Cristina didn’t do anything illegal wasn’t the issue, but rather the very high standard she had failed to uphold: what consequence should Felipe impose on himself if it turns out these foundations weren’t entirely legal?
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  #136  
Old 03-21-2020, 09:02 AM
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Our Friend Lucien stands correct .
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  #137  
Old 03-24-2020, 03:35 AM
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I remember posting this back in 2018 when this came out in the news...

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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
It won’t go away, it will always come up whenever royal finances or government corruption becomes an issue. The best thing to do to fix the mess, would be to allow for a proper investigation into these claims what’s legit and what’s not, press charges if there has been anything illegal, pay any outstanding taxes and fines, and put the rest of the money into a charitable trust that’s NOT for the family’s use. But I somehow don’t think that’s going to happen.
there are now calls for the payments and finances in question to be audited and anything that's less than pristine to be put toward fighting covid-19.

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/11834...d-100m-scandal

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/11865...-pots-and-pans

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascale.../#4fd5978a1c79

Felipe and Juan Carlos need to stop trying to have their cake and eat it and show some leadership (Felipe) and do the right thing for once in their life (Juan Carlos)
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  #138  
Old 03-24-2020, 03:50 AM
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Didn't realise that you could not renounce an inheritance in Spain.
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  #139  
Old 03-24-2020, 06:51 AM
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Didn't realise that you could not renounce an inheritance in Spain.
That's weird. But every country has its own laws. I know that in Portugal it is possible to renounce an inheritance and it is even possible to disinherit a child or grandson.
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  #140  
Old 03-24-2020, 10:03 AM
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In Germany you can renounce an inheritance, because you can as well inherit debt. You need to see a notary to do so and you can only renounce the complete inheritance, not part of it.

It is possible to disinherit a family member but only for very grave reasons, eg tried to kill you. For the rest, there is always a compulsary part, like 1/4 of the inheritance.


I think when the old man passes, there will be a lot to deal with regarding his finances.
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