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  #661  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:29 AM
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Of course, twitter is exploding with some funny stuff about the 'Burger King':
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiLqeTJXkAITEsl?format=jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiJbxmvW...jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiLPz3QX...jpg&name=small
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EiJKIEqW...png&name=small

on another note, I can easily believe that Sofia was keen to see Felipe on the throne asap.
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  #662  
Old 09-19-2020, 04:55 PM
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And who can blame her?!
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  #663  
Old 09-19-2020, 05:57 PM
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And now I do question whether she really did (and certainly whether she does) still care for JC. Who benefits by an interview like this? It's not him and it's not her.

Does she need the money that badly?
Okay, having read it, now I understand. She benefits by making threats.

Also, probably unsurprisingly, JC is a mess. And quite the Stepford smiler — he was so social and pleasant, but he seems to have been simultaneously and constantly haunted by a lot, and probably trying to outrun it all.

The idea that he apparently could not expect support from Sofia when he had lung cancer is... awful, having brought it on himself or not.

In addition — Sofia and Rajoy may have had factions against him... or they may not have had to do anything, and it could have been paranoia?
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  #664  
Old 09-19-2020, 06:20 PM
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Okay, having read it, now I understand. She benefits by making threats.

Also, probably unsurprisingly, JC is a mess. And quite the Stepford smiler — he was so social and pleasant, but he seems to have been simultaneously and constantly haunted by a lot, and probably trying to outrun it all.

The idea that he apparently could not expect support from Sofia when he had lung cancer is... awful, having brought it on himself or not.

In addition — Sofia and Rajoy may have had factions against him... or they may not have had to do anything, and it could have been paranoia?
I think this whole story is also paranoia.
JC has the image completely tarnished and will hardly be able to clean it. He are lucky that some Spaniards still admire and respect you, even with its popularity in the lowest indicies ever.
Corina should be quiet, because she is also guilty of many things, she is still doing worse by giving these interviews.
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  #665  
Old 09-19-2020, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Also, probably unsurprisingly, JC is a mess. And quite the Stepford smiler — he was so social and pleasant, but he seems to have been simultaneously and constantly haunted by a lot, and probably trying to outrun it all.
Hard to see it any other way. Although the sense of entitlement that came with being seen as untouchable was a factor too. The term “first world problems” comes to mind along with maybe JC needing to keep his enormous levels of privilege in check?

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The idea that he apparently could not expect support from Sofia when he had lung cancer is... awful, having brought it on himself or not.
I was under the impression that S did want to help him and JC wouldn’t let her. Who knows? I do find it fascinating, and disheartening, that the kinds of things that would bring other people in their situation together only serves to drive them apart. Maybe the common denominator is that both are too selfish to compromise and understand each other?

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In addition — Sofia and Rajoy may have had factions against him... or they may not have had to do anything, and it could have been paranoia?
I still believe that Rajoy was the main instigator here and that this was about damage control to keep the institution going as it had been clear for some time that JC was no longer capable of the obligations of office. It’s not Sofia or Rajoy’s fault that JC refused to see what had been clear to everyone else for some time.
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  #666  
Old 09-19-2020, 07:48 PM
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If you think about it, being raised by a dictator kind of ensures that you will develop a facade of being agreeable and compliant while doing whatever you think you need to where no one can see. :/
I'm sticking to this. He grew up learning to get along out front and get by on the side.

Being raised by a dictator, usurping your father and accidentally killing your brother are not first world problems, though. They are the problems the first world ones and enormous levels of privilege try to cover over.

And given we knew all this about JC for decades, why is it taking Corinna to realize how damaged he must be and have been? Because he ostensibly seemed to cope for so long? Because it's hard to see through the privilege pile he used to cope badly with the genuinely sad stuff?
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  #667  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:04 PM
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He was hardly raised by a dictator. He was sent to boarding school in Spain when he was ten (by request of his father). It wasn't like he was in the household of Franco. He didn't swear allegiance to France until 1969 at this point he was well past 'raising'.

Nor did he usurp his father. Franco was ruler and he chose to make JC his successor and not his father. If JC had refused to become prince of Spain, some other young Spanish royal would have been chosen. Franco wanted someone he thought young enough he would have some influence on. JC's father was never going to see the throne, no matter his son's actions.

I wont even touch on the whole shooting accident.

There is a lot of things to lay on JC without stretching his past.
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  #668  
Old 09-19-2020, 08:10 PM
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He was hardly raised by a dictator. He was sent to boarding school in Spain when he was ten (by request of his father). It wasn't like he was in the household of Franco. He didn't swear allegiance to France until 1969 at this point he was well past 'raising'.

Nor did he usurp his father. Franco was ruler and he chose to make JC his successor and not his father. If JC had refused to become prince of Spain, some other young Spanish royal would have been chosen. Franco wanted someone he thought young enough he would have some influence on. JC's father was never going to see the throne, no matter his son's actions.

I wont even touch on the whole shooting accident.

There is a lot of things to lay on JC without stretching his past.
And yet it's strange that JC feels he was taken from his parents and that he betrayed his father. I'm not stretching anything.
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  #669  
Old 09-20-2020, 02:11 AM
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He may not have been raised by a dictator, but he had to survive living with a dictator. He has been between a rock and a hard place all his life, he had to adapt and quoting Prinsara: He grew up learning to get along out front and get by on the side. That is not easy. There will have been moments in his life when he could not bear and grin it and longer, and he lost his way with Corinna, the young blonde woman, the big money. Who cared about his lovers while they were discreet and not involved in financial scandals.
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  #670  
Old 09-20-2020, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
He may not have been raised by a dictator, but he had to survive living with a dictator. He has been between a rock and a hard place all his life, he had to adapt and quoting Prinsara: He grew up learning to get along out front and get by on the side. That is not easy.
I’m not going to disagree on that, but the whole Freudian excuse is just that, an excuse. There are others who have had it much worse Than him and don’t Behave the way he has done. It’s not a reason and you can choose. JC has chosen to act this way, nobody made him

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There will have been moments in his life when he could not bear and grin it and longer, and he lost his way with Corinna, the young blonde woman, the big money. Who cared about his lovers while they were discreet and not involved in financial scandals.
Marta Gaya seems to have been possibly involved in money laundering if the “gift” is anything to go by. Barbara Rey and Olghina Di Robilant have both blackmailed JC. All of this was public knowledge for decades. Nobody did anything.

Well, i think Sofia cared, as did their children, the extended family and their wider circle of friends, the Spanish government, the media, the husbands of these other women, ordinary Spaniards.... Why else would there have been all the lies and coverups if JC and his entourage did not believe that there would be negative consequences from all of this? If not than why not just let it all hang out a la Berlusconi and save a lot of time and resources?

He did not loose his way, he deliberately sought all this out from a pretty early time after becoming king. JC has always been a crass Lustful greedy man. He was allowed to do this as those around him were willing to enable him and look the other way. This isn’t the tragic downfall of a good man, this is the reveal of a Shallow dishonest selfish man whose public career was rooted in industrial grade hypocrisy and the ambitions of others. JC refuses to take responsibility or ownership for his actions or see what he has done wrong.
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  #671  
Old 09-20-2020, 04:41 AM
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I’m not going to disagree on that, but the whole Freudian excuse is just that, an excuse. There are others who have had it much worse Than him and don’t Behave the way he has done. It’s not a reason and you can choose. JC has chosen to act this way, nobody made him



Marta Gaya seems to have been possibly involved in money laundering if the “gift” is anything to go by. Barbara Rey and Olghina Di Robilant have both blackmailed JC. All of this was public knowledge for decades. Nobody did anything.

Well, i think Sofia cared, as did their children, the extended family and their wider circle of friends, the Spanish government, the media, the husbands of these other women, ordinary Spaniards.... Why else would there have been all the lies and coverups if JC and his entourage did not believe that there would be negative consequences from all of this? If not than why not just let it all hang out a la Berlusconi and save a lot of time and resources?

He did not loose his way, he deliberately sought all this out from a pretty early time after becoming king. JC has always been a crass Lustful greedy man. He was allowed to do this as those around him were willing to enable him and look the other way. This isn’t the tragic downfall of a good man, this is the reveal of a Shallow dishonest selfish man whose public career was rooted in industrial grade hypocrisy and the ambitions of others. JC refuses to take responsibility or ownership for his actions or see what he has done wrong.

I don't disagree with you either, but this was the way it was back then ... take any other country with any other king or political leader, and you have the same thing, sometimes much worse that in Spain. If you dig you will find ... but nobody had the interest to dig, for different reasons. The climate has changed, and I am sure that if there had been no financial hardship in Spain or JC was caught with his mistress shooting an elephant, things could be very different today ... JC could be the Elder Statesman pulling the strings in the background, but he was exposed by the circumstances, there was no way not to dig after 2012.
There are countless examples of other public figureheads who suffered the same fate, exposed by the circumstances because they would not adapt their behavior and looking the other way wasn't an option any longer.

Sofia caring about it, maybe, but we don't know what would be found on her if people only started digging, but there is no interest to dig on her. Same with Felipe and his siblings, who certainly knew about Corinna ... they chose to look the other way too when looking at the options on the table.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and sometimes life is just bigger than you and you are overtaken by reality before you notice what is going on.
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  #672  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:10 AM
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Arturo Fasana gave a million in cash to Marta Gaya from the Lucum foundation - new documentation

https://okdiario.com/investigacion/f...ya-6167725/amp (in Spanish - use google translate)
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  #673  
Old 09-21-2020, 08:47 AM
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The things that were revealed by Corinna in Paris Match seem to be the ramblings of an old man who does not understand that he is not on top of things anymore, that he is making too many mistakes, that he has passed his expiration date and that it is time for him to go.

A small personal tragedy for the King perhaps but considering all that happened I do not see how anybody could doubt that the alleged opinions of Queen Sofia and PM Rajoy were correct and that it was high time for the King to make way for his son.

It is hard to see how the monarchy could have been saved if the recent Corinna / Swiss money scandals would have became public knowledge while JC was still on the throne.
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  #674  
Old 09-21-2020, 12:43 PM
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I see it that way.
She wanted to marry King Juan Carlos. He promised her. When Rajoy managed to win the general elections by an absolute majority, the Spanish right is described as monarchical, the king Juan carlos and Corinna saw the doors open, they believed that Rajoy, who had an absolute majority and was a monarchist, would approve in the Spanish parliament, the divorce (this has to go through the parliament), and Rajoy and the Spanish parliament would not oppose his new marriage, they, Corina-Juan Carlos, thought it . But Rajoy was a monarchist but he was not stupid, and he said no. His political formation would oppose to this marriage, considering that Corinna was not the right woman, in addition, the parliament would not remove the Queen's title of Queen to Sofia, they would process a law so that Sofia would have the perpetual title of Queen.

Juan Carlos would have to abdicate to the throne, by demands of the parliament. The only way to corinna would be Queen, was: That Sofia would renounce to her title of Queen and for the Spanish Parliament to process the law of the voluntary resignation of Queen Sofia.
If this is true, King Juan Carlos is a cowardly and miserable, and she is a scoundrel. The Spanish would never have accepted her as Queen.
Bravo Rajoy, bravo Queen Sophia .
the Queen Sophia has done an admirable service for Spain and the Spanish, the Spanish would never have accepted Corinna as queen, much less remove the title away of Queen to Sofia, never.
Spanish parliament would have opposed that marriage, this is not a coup d'état.

Corinna is not above the law and the parliament. Corinna would have had to kidnap the Spanish parliament, like Tejero in 1981, and force the parliament not to oppose her marriage, and to process the law that will remove the title of Queen to Sofia, to be queen of Spain.
Queen Sofia and Rajoy are not the culprits that the old Juan Carlos, let himself be fooled by the young and beautiful Corinna, and he thought that Corinna loved him for how handsome and beautiful he was, and not because of his money and his position. This is his problem.
He is not the first old man victim of a young woman fortune hunter
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  #675  
Old 09-21-2020, 01:05 PM
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He is not the first old man victim of a young woman fortune hunter
Its all sounds so Henry VIII-Katherine of Aragon-Anne Boleyn
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  #676  
Old 09-21-2020, 06:32 PM
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Or a modern comparison with Albert in Belgium: with stressful childhoods; both affable, well-liked ex-monarchs until their indiscretions finally come crashing down very noisily on their heads. Perhaps there's something to be said for being a lot more principled and a bit less (formerly) popular?
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  #677  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:06 PM
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I see it that way.
She wanted to marry King Juan Carlos. He promised her. When Rajoy managed to win the general elections by an absolute majority, the Spanish right is described as monarchical, the king Juan carlos and Corinna saw the doors open, they believed that Rajoy, who had an absolute majority and was a monarchist, would approve in the Spanish parliament, the divorce (this has to go through the parliament), and Rajoy and the Spanish parliament would not oppose his new marriage, they, Corina-Juan Carlos, thought it . But Rajoy was a monarchist but he was not stupid, and he said no. His political formation would oppose to this marriage, considering that Corinna was not the right woman, in addition, the parliament would not remove the Queen's title of Queen to Sofia, they would process a law so that Sofia would have the perpetual title of Queen.

Juan Carlos would have to abdicate to the throne, by demands of the parliament. The only way to corinna would be Queen, was: That Sofia would renounce to her title of Queen and for the Spanish Parliament to process the law of the voluntary resignation of Queen Sofia.
If this is true, King Juan Carlos is a cowardly and miserable, and she is a scoundrel. The Spanish would never have accepted her as Queen.
Bravo Rajoy, bravo Queen Sophia .
the Queen Sophia has done an admirable service for Spain and the Spanish, the Spanish would never have accepted Corinna as queen, much less remove the title away of Queen to Sofia, never.
Spanish parliament would have opposed that marriage, this is not a coup d'état.

Corinna is not above the law and the parliament. Corinna would have had to kidnap the Spanish parliament, like Tejero in 1981, and force the parliament not to oppose her marriage, and to process the law that will remove the title of Queen to Sofia, to be queen of Spain.
Queen Sofia and Rajoy are not the culprits that the old Juan Carlos, let himself be fooled by the young and beautiful Corinna, and he thought that Corinna loved him for how handsome and beautiful he was, and not because of his money and his position. This is his problem.
He is not the first old man victim of a young woman fortune hunter

I agree. People who blame Sofia for wanting JC to abdicate in favor of Felipe, forget that before Sofia seems to have wanted JC to abdicate, JC seems to have wanted to divorce her and get rid of her as Queen. After years of admirable service and dedication to Spain.

He was a fool to have thought (and given the information, I find it likely that he did) that he could get rid of a popular and hard-working Queen; in many ways textbook example of a Queen, in favor of his mistress. And in a Catholic country at that

Now I think, beside a wish to defend herself against the criminal case brought against her and perhaps other motivations, Corinna is probably mad that she did not get to be Queen. As you said, he promised her marriage and he promised her that against all odds, she would be Queen.
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  #678  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:14 PM
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Even Corinna who disclosed the marriage discussion is not so brazen as to say she was promised or would have been Queen — and there's every advantage for her to tattle about it and no reason to shut up, is there?

Even if Spain isn't a Catholic country, the monarchy's a Catholic institution. JC wouldn't have been able to marry her in church. I'm not sure how she would have positioned herself as Queen, let alone as Sofia's working replacement.
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  #679  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:39 PM
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Even Corinna who disclosed the marriage discussion is not so brazen as to say she was promised or would have been Queen — and there's every advantage for her to tattle about it and no reason to shut up, is there?

Even if Spain isn't a Catholic country, the monarchy's a Catholic institution. JC wouldn't have been able to marry her in church. I'm not sure how she would have positioned herself as Queen, let alone as Sofia's working replacement.

True. Maybe she thought she could become Princess Consort or something? I do think that since he promised her marriage, she thought she could take up an important position by his side, maybe not with the title of Queen but at least some of the privileges.

Hasn't Corinna lived in the UK for a long time? Maybe she thought that if Charles could ultimately marry Camilla despite the odds and people's prior opposition, something similar could happen for her and JC.

From her latest interview it seems that Corinna is mad at Sofia. But why? Because she wanted to take her place? I'm open to other suggestions.

She says she was turned into the "Wallis Simpson" of this story by Sofia and Rajoy. But what did she expect? It wasn't Sofia and Rajoy who turned her into a Wallis Simpson character, she was always going to be seen like that by nature of being the mistress. Obviously she expected something more.
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  #680  
Old 09-21-2020, 07:52 PM
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From her latest interview it seems that Corinna is mad at Sofia. But why? Because she wanted to take her place? I'm open to other suggestions.

She says she was turned into the "Wallis Simpson" of this story by Sofia and Rajoy. But what did she expect? It wasn't Sofia and Rajoy who turned her into a Wallis Simpson character, she was always going to be seen like that by nature of being the mistress. Obviously she expected something more.
I think the "Wallis" part probably comes from JC surely realizing that if he divorced Sofia and married her, he'd have to abdicate. Sofia is vastly more popular than him, perhaps why Corinna doesn't like her very well.

I'm not sure that she's chummy with JC at the moment. (She's not so stupid as to believe she's helping him by talking to the media.) I get the feeling he would treat her to a reprise of ¿¡Por qué no te callas!?, if he could.
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