King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022


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The question is how to regulate what he should receive. Juan Carlos' endowment was established as that of a still active member of the Royal House, not as that of a retired Head of State. He had an active role and was paid and had privileges based on it. They would have to pass new legislation, as there is a regulation for former Presidents of the Government, and I do not think that neither the Government nor the Royal House have an interest in creating that problem now.

The problem is to justify now that he is entitled to a retirement pay at the expense of the State ... especially when public opinion knows that he has had a lot of money abroad and has evaded taxes. Not only that, but since his abdication, Juan Carlos has repeatedly failed to comply with the norms that his son established for the Royal Family in economic matters.

Given all that, he should be content to keep his title, his special judicial protection, his safety and his assistants ... and live quietly without claiming more and causing more trouble. Paying for Juan Carlos' security and assistants in Abu Dabhi is already costing the state a lot of money.
 
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Where does it say that Juan Carlos' endowment was based on him remaining an active member of the royal house? That would be a very strange situation because if he could continue to be active, why did he abdicate?

While monarchs (and their spouses) that abdicated might continue to do some royal engagements as long as their health permits, it would be really strange to link their income to their number of activities. I don't know any monarchy/country that does that.

Whether he has a lot of money is irrelevant to whether he is to continue to receive some money from the state. It is part of the 'deal' when you have a royal family: you have to take care of them (at least the (future/past) Sovereign for life! If you are not willing to once abdicated they should know in advance and will most likely decide not to abdicate even if they are no longer able to fulfill their commitments.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Every civil servant, every member of Parliament, every Government minister has a pension fund. But there are no pension funds for Kings. They do not get an income with a slip: "This is bruto and then this off, that off, etc. This is your netto income". Kings usually get an annual dotation which they use for the proper workings of their House and of course as personal income.

But as they retire, it is the norm that States prolongue an annual dotation to the abdicated King, by form of pension scheme. I think that is very reasonable unless the King becomes a civil servant himself, has a work contract for 36 hours a week, gets a monthly salary from the Department of the Interior and becomes a participant in the Pension Fund for civil servants. But that is so diametrical to the nature of the Kingship. (In my country the King appoints and dismisses ministers, by law. Now he should be a civil servant under the minister he appointed and will dismiss?)

In short: it is logical that a person who has been a future King, a reigning King, a former King all his/her life receives an income for life. After all neither Felipe nor Leonor have any choice: this is where they were born for and most likely in any monarchy it is "undesireable" to see the (future) King in a dependent relation to thirds or to pursue an own commercial business.
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I guess the point is that, before 1931, the Royal Sites were part of the Crown Estate, i.e owned by the King in right of the Crown of Spain, and basically had the same legal status as the royal palaces in the UK for example. The Republic, however nationalized the Crown Estate and the Royal Sites were kept as State property in the Franco regime under the new designation of Patrimonio Nacional.

The Spanish constitution of 1978 formally separates the Crown from the State (unlike in the UK for example) and says that the King " receives an overall amount from the State budget for the maintenance of his Family and Household and disposes it freely". King Juan Carlos' "pension" was paid out of that Royal Household grant on King Felipe's personal discretion. The King, however, does not have a right of disposal over the Royal Sites that are owned by the State and he and his family can only use those sites that the government makes available to them. So, in theory, I agree with the assertion that King Juan Carlos has no "a priori" legal right to a residence paid for by the State, which is separate from the issue of whether he should receive a pension or not. It is a different situation from Belgium or even Sweden, where the Crown does not own the royal sites either as a corporation sole, but the monarch at least has a legal right of disposal.
 
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Mbruno said:
King Juan Carlos' "pension" was paid out of that Royal Household grant on King Felipe's personal discretion.
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In Spain, the Royal Family is a special case, they live on that public allowance and pay taxes on the money they receive personally, but they do not contribute to Social Security like any Spanish worker, and therefore they have no right to public health or pension.
 
With presidents it's not any better: In Germany we have a former head of state, Christian Wulff, who was 52 when he was forced out of office by scandal. Yet, he receives a salary until the end of his life of 240.000 Euros per year, plus office and staff, car, driver, security (housing is his own problem). There has been a lot of controversy about that and still is from time to time, since his ex wife uses the driver etc and he does other lucrative jobs on the side. But it's the law, you can do nothing about it.

I think dignity dictates that a former head of state is taken care of, especially a King, who is not short lived like a presidency. So if JC wishes to return to Spain, they have to find a solution to give him appropriate housing and security, he won't leave the place where he lives very often anymore anyway, so he will be out of sight most of the time. A poster suggested to put him in a care home, it's not that easy.

The horse has bolted a long time ago, so to say, you can't close the stable door anymore. JC will continue to be a nuisance in many aspects, as long as he is alive and even possibly in death.
 
The difference is that a former President of the Republic does not continue to be part of the Royal Family and therefore of an institution of the State. When he abdicated, he broke all the new regulations that his son had applied to the Family, and he was totally indiscreet and uncontrollable.

Returning to Spain with privileges would mean that Juan Carlos should pay taxes in Spain (and regularize all the money that he might still have outside of Spain), and should adhere to the codes of conduct of the Royal Household. I can't really imagine Juan Carlos giving up all the invitations and gifts he has received from his friends over the years. Probably the money of the state, it would not compensate him to give all that up.
 
But wasn't Juan Carlos already breaking those regulations the day he abdicated? The RF must have been clear about the fact that the pre-abdication ways of JC would be a threat to the new culture, even if he had been discreet and controllable from 2014 onwards. A lot of the stuff that came out happened while he was still King with full immunity, therefore it was a time bomb waiting to explode.

He did not meet the code of conduct back then and will not meet it now in case he returns.

JC voluntarily went to UAE therefore nobody can prevent him from returning. Financially, with all the baggage from his past he will be unable or unwilling to come clean, eg he may have to incriminate other people or even family members who knew about his dealings and did nothing in the past. Felipe and the Government are between a rock and a hard place and will have to take JC back with special treatment applied, and sell it to the public somehow.
 
But I feel that all circles back to why Felipe likely has to hold strong that JC moves out of Zarzuela.

There's a lot less to "sell" if JC is living more as a private citizen, and not as a royal.

If JC's remaining funds cannot be legally spent within Spain without risking prosecution or more scandal (my suspicion: this is the true problem)- that still isn't a reason to house him at Zarzuela. Just a consequence of criminal actions.

No matter what, I don't foresee Felipe reinstating JC's allowance, so if JC cannot live in Spain without it, he needs to live elsewhere. It appears that the allowance is entirely within the current monarch's discretion, and I think it's fair to say that Felipe's hands are tied. There should be a formal government allowance for former Spanish monarchs, but thanks to JC's own actions there is no way the government is going to enact it now.
 
BriarRose said:
No matter what, I don't foresee Felipe reinstating JC's allowance, so if JC cannot live in Spain without it, he needs to live elsewhere. It appears that the allowance is entirely within the current monarch's discretion, and I think it's fair to say that Felipe's hands are tied.
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That is correct. The national budget does not include a stipend for any individual member of the Royal Family. Instead, it includes a (constitutionally mandated) lump sum destined to the Royal Household and it is entirely within the King's discretion to decide who gets an allowance or not out of that grant. Technically speaking then, it was King Felipe VI who cut his father's allowance, not the government.

Having said that, the government pays separately for royal security and housing, which are not part of the Royal Household grant. So a decision on King Juan Carlos returning to Zarzuela would have to be agreed by the government. As I mentioned before, the Crown Estate was nationalized in the 1930s/40s, and the royal sites are now administered directly by a National Heritage agency that is subordinate to the Government of Spain and has an annual budget that is roughly 15 times bigger than that of the Royal Household itself.
 
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Mbruno said:
Having said that, the government pays separately for royal security and housing, which are not part of the Royal Household grant. So a decision on King Juan Carlos returning to Zarzuela would have to be agreed by the government. As I mentioned before, the Crown Estate was nationalized in the 1930s/40s, and the royal sites are now administered directly by a National Heritage agency that is subordinate to the Government of Spain and has an annual budget that is roughly 15 times bigger than that of the Royal Household itself.
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Doesn't Princess Irene live in Zarzuela too together with her sister Queen Sofia? Does the government care about that or does she pay rent? There must be some kind of agreement for a private person living on Crown Estate.
 
Perhaps Sofia pays rent for her, but since she is a private person, why should we know about it?

Irene is neither the ex-monarch nor the lynchpin of a scandal web, so what she does doesn't bear much relevance to JC.
 
I was only referring to the obviously touchy subject of property owned by patrimonio national and the 'transparent' use of it.
 
If your question is, if King Juan Carlos can live in Zarzuela, the answer is yes, he should only have the consent of his son. Regarding the Spanish national patrimony, King Felipe has assigned the use of Palace, he is free to determine the people and animals and others ...who can reside in the Palace. The Spanish state establishes a amounts for the preservation of the palace and the artworks of its property, the rest, it is paid by the King of Spain, the Spanish state does not pay his maintenance and his family, it is the King who faces to those expenses. The controversy in Spain is not the Palace of the Zarzuela, the controversy is in the Palaces such as Moncloa, seat of the President of the government and his family, The government of Spain is the one who determines the amounts allocated to the Palace de la Moncloa and obviously it is always controversial where that money is spent. In Moncloa they have lived, even the in-laws of the Presidents
 
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Given the reported state of relations between them now and Felipe's firm devotion to be above reproach for Spain, he may not consent.

Then where does JC go?
 
:previous:

Spain is a big, big, country with plenty of great estates fit for a royal.
I would advice Don Felipe to accommodate his father indeed and not let friends, supporters or juancarlistas house him in Marbella or Ibiza. Keep him close and give him a befitting accomodation for the last phase of his long and eventful life.

I believe Don Juan Carlos' parents Don Juan and Doña María de las Mercedes had a house in Puerta de Hierro (Madrid) aside their Villa Giralda in Estoril (Portugal)?
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
:previous:

Spain is a big, big, country with plenty of great estates fit for a royal.
I would advice Don Felipe to accommodate his father indeed and not let friends, supporters or juancarlistas house him in Marbella or Ibiza. Keep him close and give him a befitting accomodation for the last phase of his long and eventful life.

I believe Don Juan Carlos' parents Don Juan and Doña Maria de las Mercedes had a house in Puerta de Hierro (Madrid) aside their Villa Giralda in Estoril (Portugal)?
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The house that the parents of King Juan Carlos owned in Portugal has already been sold many years ago, as well as the one in Puerta de Hierro.
But I also think Felipe VI should be the one to accommodate his father, I don't think that would hurt him.
 
Blog Real said:
The house that the parents of King Juan Carlos owned in Portugal has already been sold many years ago, as well as the one in Puerta de Hierro.
But I also think Felipe VI should be the one to accommodate his father, I don't think that would hurt him.
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Don Juan Carlos is extremely wealthy and I think the less involvement y the royal house the better.

He has surrounded himself in scandals for the past decade and is hobbling back to Spain in disgrace.

Let him retire to a Monastery ;)
 
An Ard Ri said:
Don Juan Carlos is extremely wealthy and I think the less involvement y the royal house the better.

He has surrounded himself in scandals for the past decade and is hobbling back to Spain in disgrace.

Let him retire to a Monastery ;)
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He is not Charles Quint unfortunately !

Duke of Marmalade said:
Doesn't Princess Irene live in Zarzuela too together with her sister Queen Sofia? Does the government care about that or does she pay rent? There must be some kind of agreement for a private person living on Crown Estate.
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I believe Lipe has clarified this point, specifically the current arrangement between the Royal Household and the government about the use of the Zarzuela Palace.
 
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Mbruno said:
He is not Charles Quint unfortunately !
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No, but he actually did desire to become a monk rather than king after the tragedy of his brother's death.

It's not the worst idea in the world, would ensure he had plenty of company and less opportunity for anything nefarious, and might actually give him some peace (since he is a troubled, sad man) and do him some good.
 
Who is without sin, cast the first stone. For all his faults, Don Juan Carlos has also been a great King, firmly leading Spain into democracy, into NATO and EU, into a never-seen economic boom culminating in the best Olympic Games ever (Barcelona 1992), in the World Expo in Seville, in Spain gloriously changing into a country studded with amazing projects, from the Guggenheim in Bilbao to the iconic City of Arts & Sciences in Valencia. With liberties and freedoms once unimagineable in Catholic Francoïst Spain. Who could ever have forseen this when Franco died?

France spit out Général De Gaulle, but now the French are melancholic for the Trente Glorieuses, the three Glorious Decades after the war in which France boomed on all imagineable terrains, embodied by the great De Gaulle.

It is very well possible that after a while the reign of King Juan Carlos will be known as the Trinta Glorioses, the best three decades of Spain ever.

Despite all his faults, Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón has earned a respectful last phase of his unbelievably eventful life to his position and office. In 30 years the Spaniards will look back to the era 1975-2008 (from Franco until the worldwide Credit Crisis) with amazement and will long for these fantastic years in which trees seemed to grow unstoppably into the sky.
 
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I agree ,
but as King he has not to do business or accept money . He was Rich.
As King he had to choose mistresses who remain in the shadow and don't invite him to elefant safaries where he lost his health !
 
If I may, there seems a rather obvious solution, used by many families, including my own.

J.C. could live with either of his daughters, if they are willing to host him. As they are not working royals, I don’t believe it would reflect poorly on the Spanish monarchy. (He also could buy a private home- I’ve read the news articles, he has a vast amount of money somewhere).

He’s not going to get his allowance back. But, should he behave, I do not doubt that Felipe would ensure that his true needs are met directly. It’s very sad that J.C. Isn’t prioritizing the future of the monarchy.

(I don’t think it’s casting stones when I would *hope* that all of us are not tax evaders or criminals.)
 
I think Elena and Cristina are too closely involved, unfortunately, both with his scandals and with their own. Especially Cristina (Iñaki is still serving time, after all).

I'm sure if he were able to live with one of them something would have been announced already, to end the speculation.

And yes, not all of us have funneled hundreds of millions through our extramarital partners, so JC's "sins" are slightly bigger problems than the ordinary.
 
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Prinsara said:
I think Elena and Cristina are too closely involved, unfortunately, both with his scandals and with their own. Especially Cristina (Iñaki is still serving time, after all).
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Infanta Cristina doesn't live in Spain either, does she?

The nuclear royal family, now consisting of Felipe, Letizia and their daughters, is not under any immediate threat of being deposed, but cutting ties with controversial relatives is wise. I'm afraid the position of the monarchy is too fragile nowadays to afford having King Juan Carlos back in Spain.
 
Biri said:
What scandal does Elena have on her account?
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She was part of the credit card news several months ago and while not a scandal, I think there have been persistent low level rumblings about where the funding for her lifestyle comes from.

He could probably live with Elena (not Cristina), if it were acceptable to both of them, but like I said, if it were going to happen, I think there'd be an announcement.
 
Don Juan Carlos' return to Spain would not be a scandal. Going back to Zarzuela Palace shouldn't be a chance. But I believe he will return to Spain next year.
 
BriarRose said:
If I may, there seems a rather obvious solution, used by many families, including my own.

J.C. could live with either of his daughters, if they are willing to host him. As they are not working royals, I don’t believe it would reflect poorly on the Spanish monarchy. (He also could buy a private home- I’ve read the news articles, he has a vast amount of money somewhere).

He’s not going to get his allowance back. But, should he behave, I do not doubt that Felipe would ensure that his true needs are met directly. It’s very sad that J.C. Isn’t prioritizing the future of the monarchy.

(I don’t think it’s casting stones when I would *hope* that all of us are not tax evaders or criminals.)
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His abdication was a very clear sign that he was prioritizing the future of the monarchy over his personal interests. As a monarch he had immunity. By abdicating he made sure that his son could become king and in doing so he added a new chapter to the monarchy.
 
JC enjoys limited immunity still, as he is accountable only to the Spanish Supreme Court in Spain. A law was specially passed to give him this limited immunity.

He chose to leave the country when he was under investigation in Spain and Switzerland. He is only now demanding to live in Zarzuela and receive his allowance because the investigations closed (btw, there is no statute of limitations in Switzerland, and JC has no immunity there, so a new investigation could be opened at any time. I think this is why he is suddenly pleading that he is cash poor- perhaps he can't touch his alleged Swiss bank accounts or risk prosecution).

I strongly believe that if he is allowed to live in Zarzuela, it will hurt the current monarchy. And I think J.C. knows this but does not care. He wants what he wants. That's of course the attitude that likely led to his alleged crimes.

Again, I used to be a supporter of his. But I don't think any monarch should be permitted to commit multi-million dollar financial crimes. It's an insult to the rule of law. I'm not holding him to a standard I don't hold myself to. I don't feel it's a standard that is unfair to royals.
 
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