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  #501  
Old 08-17-2020, 10:59 AM
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Location: madrid, bruxelles, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
King Felipe VI has nothing to do with the business of his brother-in-law (who was convicted) nor with the accounts of his father, King Juan Carlos, from abroad.
I believe that the monarchy will continue.
A few days ago the Spanish newspaper ABC published a very positive survey for the monarchy.
well, you do not know if Felipe is involved, as most of us do not know what's going on ;-)
I've read the survey but you know statistics . maybe you would like to post a link, it can be interesting for others aswell.
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  #502  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by vivat View Post
well, you do not know if Felipe is involved, as most of us do not know what's going on ;-)
I've read the survey but you know statistics . maybe you would like to post a link, it can be interesting for others aswell.

Here is a link:
https://www.abc.es/espana/casa-real/...8_noticia.html
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  #503  
Old 08-17-2020, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Begs the question, how is he paying for his stay in the UAE if it now seems to be more "permanent" than just a brief stop over visit?
So far its been said his stay is likely being paid for by the rich UAE rulers but is that really better for Spain in the long run? Especially given the claims of bribes and payoffs from Saudi Arabia.
If Spain want to pay for him, I am sure they could. But as things stand, he is a guest of the local ruler, and that is where the matter ends.
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  #504  
Old 08-17-2020, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
If Spain want to pay for him, I am sure they could. But as things stand, he is a guest of the local ruler, and that is where the matter ends.
I'm sure he is not being charged! The hotel is the property of the Abu Dhabi government and JC will be hosted as an honoured guest. I wouldn't be surprised if his flight and security etc were also covered by his hosts.

I don't think this will cause any issues in Spain. The issue would be caused if he were to charge it back to the Spanish government. JC is effectively cut loose from all state funding.
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  #505  
Old 08-17-2020, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Begs the question, how is he paying for his stay in the UAE if it now seems to be more "permanent" than just a brief stop over visit?
So far its been said his stay is likely being paid for by the rich UAE rulers but is that really better for Spain in the long run? Especially given the claims of bribes and payoffs from Saudi Arabia.
The Al-Nahyan family has always had more money than brains so Spain does not have to worry about JC’s expense in the UAE
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  #506  
Old 08-17-2020, 12:20 PM
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But doesn't that just exacerbate the problem? Accepting free hospitality from one foreign ruler after leaving having been accused of accepting a bribe from another? Seems odd to me.
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  #507  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:19 PM
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I do not understand the strategy of King Juan Carlos or his lawyers or the Spanish Royal House...., I do not agree that he leaves the country, in Spain there are very discreet places. However, I do not think that it is beneficial for the image of King Juan Carlos to stay the Arab Emirates, stay in a luxury hotel, as a special guest of the authorities ...
What in my opinion this does not make any sense is that it transcends a photo of King Juan Carlos arriving to the Arab Emirates, it is obvious that this photo is prepared. He could have traveled to the United Arab Emirates, and no say nothing, he would have gone completely unnoticed.
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  #508  
Old 08-17-2020, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
If Spain want to pay for him, I am sure they could. But as things stand, he is a guest of the local ruler, and that is where the matter ends.

The Spanish State funds only the reigning King and the King then decides freely how to spend the money he gets, including sharing it with other members of his family if that is the case (Art. 65 of the Spanish constitution).



Felipe decided that his father would no longer receive any money from the Royal Household grant, so I understand JC now doesn't get any money "from Spain".



So either he is paying for his stay with his own (secret or declared) fortune, or his friends are paying for him. In this case, as you said, he is probably a guest of the local rulers.
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  #509  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:36 PM
Nobility
 
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13:35. Oh dear.
21:00. Oh dear. Again. And it gets worse...
33:39 Annnd hat trick! Oh, dear.
42:46 Bonus unintentional and sad one from Felipe.
https://youtu.be/TxkGfnaPqZY
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  #510  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
13:35. Oh dear.
21:00. Oh dear. Again. And it gets worse...

https://youtu.be/TxkGfnaPqZY

I must say, the younger Juan Carlos and Sofia look far more regal than Felipe and Letizia on that footage.
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  #511  
Old 08-17-2020, 10:00 PM
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For all the "things sound awful from hindsight" moments in Rey de España, JC (or younger-JC, anyway) really does/did come across as genuinely likeable and charming and quite sympathetic. It's both sad and probably why he got into so many varieties of trouble.
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  #512  
Old 08-18-2020, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
But doesn't that just exacerbate the problem? Accepting free hospitality from one foreign ruler after leaving having been accused of accepting a bribe from another? Seems odd to me.
my thoughts, if he has made friends there, maybe they work smething out for him. you know the UAE buying some bug stuff from Spain again, some contract being revealed in the next days...
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  #513  
Old 08-18-2020, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Why are tehre all these rumours that seem to be contradicted all the time? I thought that he had this mistress wit him - now she's not? Like he was going to Portugal and then he's in the Dominican republic... It all seems very chaoitc....
I think it's chaotic because it would seem apparent that JC has gone AWOL. He is not within the control of the Zarzuela press office and seems to be writing the script as he goes along.
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  #514  
Old 08-18-2020, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I think it's chaotic because it would seem apparent that JC has gone AWOL. He is not within the control of the Zarzuela press office and seems to be writing the script as he goes along.
But there are so many different stories.. Did he put them out that he was going to X or Y? To confuse people? I think that the Spanish RF has now made this statement that he is in - UAE? And that's meant to stop the rumor's?
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  #515  
Old 08-18-2020, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
For all the "things sound awful from hindsight" moments in Rey de España, JC (or younger-JC, anyway) really does/did come across as genuinely likeable and charming and quite sympathetic. It's both sad and probably why he got into so many varieties of trouble.

Exactly and yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. So when this is put into the context of time and the mindset of a society at that time, it's not so bad at all. Sofia almost appears progressive and not as the (back then) usual silent woman in the background.
I think especially in the early years he did a lot of things for the good of Spain that would be labelled illegal or criminal today, because this is what you do or is expected of you if you have to rebuild a nation, during those times. The other powers were complicit or looked the other way, as long as the charismatic King brought a profit for Spain nobody cared about the profit for himself and his family.

It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years.
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  #516  
Old 08-18-2020, 07:26 AM
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Well put Duke of Marmalade
"It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years."

I'm not giving excuses nor could I truly understand fully the dynamics of Spain's history but I have thought in regard to the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, what if Spain were still in a dictatorship mode of government? If King Juan Carlos had failed in his early leadership or as I understand it and perhaps wrongly what if Juan Carlos had not steered Spain into a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. I so appreciated the filmed interview showing the SRF and specifically Juan Carlos from the 1990's to give context and depth into the current situation today. I must say Juan Carlos was very charming and Queen Sophia with a strong voice and independent thinking.
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  #517  
Old 08-18-2020, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Daly View Post
Well put Duke of Marmalade
"It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years."

I'm not giving excuses nor could I truly understand fully the dynamics of Spain's history but I have thought in regard to the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, what if Spain were still in a dictatorship mode of government? If King Juan Carlos had failed in his early leadership or as I understand it and perhaps wrongly what if Juan Carlos had not steered Spain into a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. I so appreciated the filmed interview showing the SRF and specifically Juan Carlos from the 1990's to give context and depth into the current situation today. I must say Juan Carlos was very charming and Queen Sophia with a strong voice and independent thinking.
I 100% agree with you. Were it not for JC and the other brave leaders of the transition there was nothing to stop Spain being what we see in some unfortunate South American countries today. Their role was massive in crafting a successful compromise in the Constitution and providing stability for the last 40 years. Did it paper over cracks and were there people on the make? Yes, but in all democracy in Spain today was built upon their work.
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  #518  
Old 08-18-2020, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I 100% agree with you. Were it not for JC and the other brave leaders of the transition there was nothing to stop Spain being what we see in some unfortunate South American countries today. Their role was massive in crafting a successful compromise in the Constitution and providing stability for the last 40 years. Did it paper over cracks and were there people on the make? Yes, but in all democracy in Spain today was built upon their work.
Yes he did a good job in promoting democracy in Spain but he's undone all that, he has thrown a shadow over the rest of his family.. and had to leave his country under a cloud.
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  #519  
Old 08-18-2020, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Yes he did a good job in promoting democracy in Spain but he's undone all that, he has thrown a shadow over the rest of his family.. and had to leave his country under a cloud.



It was not just promoting democracy, but turning Spain into a modern European country when the alternatives, as Darius said, would have been going back to a traditionalist righ-wing authoritarian state like the Franco regime or a Carlist monarchy, or a Bolivarian people's republic a la Venezuela, none of which would have been sustainable in the long run and would probably have ended badly.



Of course, it was not JC alone who did it, but he kickstarted the process when he was the only person capable of doing it, because he correctly realized it was the only viable future for Spain, and, then, he voluntarily stepped back as he should to let the politicians run the country. And, as much as we now think of the 2008 crisis and the current public health emergency and picture Spain as crisis country, the reality is that, in the past 40 years, not only did Spain enjoy political stability, but also it was a great economic success.



Yes, I think it is unfortunate that JC has damaged his reputation and legacy so late in his life after all he had been through before (including poverty and his mother having to "sell some jewels to pay the rent" as he mentioned in the 1992 interview). But when you also hear grandees of the 1980s and 1990s like Felipe Gonzalez or Javier Solana, who are important European (not only Spanish) personalities, praising his work as king, one has to admit that, at least at his prime, he was a very good monarch.
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  #520  
Old 08-18-2020, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
I do not understand the strategy of King Juan Carlos or his lawyers or the Spanish Royal House...., I do not agree that he leaves the country, in Spain there are very discreet places. However, I do not think that it is beneficial for the image of King Juan Carlos to stay the Arab Emirates, stay in a luxury hotel, as a special guest of the authorities ...
What in my opinion this does not make any sense is that it transcends a photo of King Juan Carlos arriving to the Arab Emirates, it is obvious that this photo is prepared. He could have traveled to the United Arab Emirates, and no say nothing, he would have gone completely unnoticed.
It appears to me that King Juan Carlos doesn't really care now what people actually think. He is doing what he wants with whom he wants and by whatever means he wants. I am sure in his own mind he is doing nothing wrong as he is not costing his country any money so he will enjoy life now in much comfort and pampering. I am sure he feels he deserves. JMO
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