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  #481  
Old 08-14-2020, 07:43 AM
Gentry
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipe View Post
I think the Scott´s analysis is true, in Spain there has been a lot of corruption and with the entry of the euro, and the subsidies granted by the European Union, the corruption multiplied. In the business sphere, this has been almost a habit, however this corruption also exists in other countries such as the United States, for example, France.Ok, he was a great leader...

I think that in this whole King Juan Carlos business, we are forgetting one person, and that person is Corinna. She is an essential element of this plot, and yet she seems like the good guy in the movie.

Corinna was a businesswoman, with investment funds, an entrepreneur with businesses in tax havens, with corporate structures created all over the world.

These commissions that are attributed to the king, and that it has not yet been proven what it consist , it correspond to a business structure created by Corinna.

It is clear to me that the brain of this plot is Corinna. I know that these do not exclude King Juan Carlos, it is obvious, that he is the means, that she needs to carry out those businesses.

I would like you to understand this. This is not a case of corruption, where you sell a house, and you demand that the buyer give you a part in dark money, which is not detected by the public treasury.
This is a case with a much higher structure, much more complicated.
My conclusion: I believe that King Juan Carlos would not have done these businesses, if in his life, had not appeared Corinna.
Regarding the Juan carlos, he has had a character, "bonachon", which is said in Spain. Friendly, fun, close to the public... He hasn't been a serious, antipathic person with people, formal, he's always broken protocol. And that's really niced for people.
I fully agree - it would appear that he threw all caution to the wind when he met Corinna - sad that el Rey campechano should have played the legacy of his life on a throw of the dice with this woman.
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  #482  
Old 08-14-2020, 08:58 AM
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thank you!!
I repeat, if Corinna had not appeared in his life, today, I have the assurance that no one would critize his great legacy, he would continue to be the great King, he would be a loved King. But , with Corinna, he did not think about the future, he forgot his legacy and his good reputation.
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  #483  
Old 08-14-2020, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Selina scott writing for the telegraph about the doco she filmed about JC in the 1990s

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/po...led-caballero/

A link to the doco in Spanish with English subtitles so you can judge for yourself

https://youtu.be/TxkGfnaPqZY

Selina scott used to get it in the neck back in the day for the way she Interviewed her male subjects - think people were rather unfair to her in all honesty...

Op ed from the NYT about all this. David Jimenez on Juan Carlos’s effective career as a lobbyist for the Arab Monarchies and dictatorships.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.n...exile.amp.html
Sadly, the Guardian and NYT are behind paywalls, and I don't see any subtitles for the documentary.

I'm not saying Selina Scott did anything unprofessional; she just seemed strikingly chummy for a journalist with Constantine to me. I'm sure JC must have been thrilled to see her.
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  #484  
Old 08-14-2020, 02:40 PM
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I have seen the interviews of Prince Charles and the return of King Constantine to Greece with his family and I honestly liked her interviews. I like that interviews model.

As for the interview with King Juan Carlos, this is very good. I agree with her interview on the telegraph, she is honest.

https://www.revistavanityfair.es/rea...n-carlos/46240

She represented King Juan Carlos as, the king of the people.

She says very sincerely, (I translate this from the Vanitty fair in Spain, I cannot open the Telegrath.) about King Juan Carlos "This was not traditional royal behaviour, but then he was not a traditional king." I agree that the criticisms of this interview is based on the fact that King Juan Carlos was represented as a non-ordinary king, no traditional.
She says in the Vanity Fair translation, about King Juan Carlos that he was a "accomplished modern leader". ok.
She says: "What is not in dispute is that he had effectively become a super salesman for Spain, bringing business from all over the world into his country ,,," I agree with her, Bravo. It has brought a lot of money and investments to Spain.Totally agree.

SHe talks about the corruption that exists in Spain, as something habitual or normal, I would like to say that it is lying, but it is obvious that in Spain there has been a lot of corruption, and the entry of the euro, favored it. She justifies the King's corruption saying that "Economic investment in car plants followed when Spain joined the Common Market and as money poured into the country, it seems to me, Juan Carlos’s sense of integrity slowly eroded". It could have been as she says but I do not think like her.

We have read it in articles about Iñaki Urdangarin. he did what the others did, he thought that he would never be investigated because it was common practice among businessmen.


I like this she says about Queen Sofia:
"The innocent victim of all this drama."After marrying Juan Carlos in 1962 she plunged herself into Spanish culture, heading up many charities and is considered a forceful and intelligent woman. Throughout all Juan Carlos’s infidelities she has publicly remained a loyal, dignified and passionate defender of her husband and country."
I agree with Scott

Now, the opinion on King Juan Carlos,in the New York Timesof Mr Jiménez:

he says:
"It is time for the Spanish to recognize that we always knew that the king had no clothes, but we decided to look the other way."

In the first place, to say that Spaniards " to look the other way."
, is a lie. The same journalist acknowledges that his newspaper sent him to interview Bárbara Rey, due to a rumor that existed at that time,1996, it said that she was the lover of King Juan Carlos. Himself is acknowledging that we were not "looking the other way."

He says:
“A culture of loyalty expired, the opacity that surrounds the Spanish monarchy, and a Constitution that exempts our kings from any criminal responsibility sent the message to the monarch that he was above the law. His judicial immunity, intended to give stability to the institution of the crown, was used to amass a fortune mainly through millions of dollars in alleged bribes of Arab dictators "

In short, the Spanish journalist says that since the inviolability of the king, established in the Constitution, made King Juan Carlos believe that he was above the law, that is why he has been corrupt since 1978.

The inviolability is a prerogative introduced in many constitutional texts in Europe to protect the Head of State. Inviolability is not a prerogative, Made in spain.
And it does not seem fair to me that his arguments are based on something as weak as statements similar to these, one day a journalist told him that he had heard that the king had spoken with Hussein ...
When he makes such serious accusations, the evidence must exist, and say "it is possible", "I believe", "I have heard", "someone told me ..." This is not valid.

I have corrected the translation because I have gotten the interview the thelegph to open. Forgive me, for repeating the parts of the article, I wanted to share this long comment because I would like you to see the difference in treatment between the journalists or media, British and USA or spanish journalist of the New York Times. I'm sorry to say so, but the article by the British journalist seems more professional and realistic.
Although I do not agree with the British journalist, I share his opinion, and I respect it. This is honest and professional.
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  #485  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:37 AM
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I still think Scott is being far too generous. Jimenez feels closer to reality to me - Juan Carlos‘a well compensated lobbying for middle eastern tyrants has been the most consistent feature of his actions as king, it has had a negative impact on Spain’s foreign policy and international image and This has been a direct result of a culture of impunity that’s a direct holdover from Franco’s era - a culture that Juan Carlos had every interest in maintaining.
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  #486  
Old 08-15-2020, 08:59 AM
Gentry
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
I still think Scott is being far too generous. Jimenez feels closer to reality to me - Juan Carlos‘a well compensated lobbying for middle eastern tyrants has been the most consistent feature of his actions as king, it has had a negative impact on Spain’s foreign policy and international image and This has been a direct result of a culture of impunity that’s a direct holdover from Franco’s era - a culture that Juan Carlos had every interest in maintaining.
I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree here. I don't think there is a country in the west that has not lobbied for Middle Eastern regimes, in a similar way that they do today for the oppressive Chinese regime. And it is all down to money and investment. A lot of money poured into Spain from the Gulf in the 1980's and 90's and Spain holds the record for the largest ever arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Spain's prosperity up until 2008 was in large part thanks to these investments.
I'm not saying it is right, or that the King should have been taking commission in cash (gifts of jewels to other European Heads of State surely played a similar role of gratitude), but this was the reality.
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  #487  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree here. I don't think there is a country in the west that has not lobbied for Middle Eastern regimes, in a similar way that they do today for the oppressive Chinese regime. And it is all down to money and investment. A lot of money poured into Spain from the Gulf in the 1980's and 90's and Spain holds the record for the largest ever arms sale to Saudi Arabia. Spain's prosperity up until 2008 was in large part thanks to these investments.
I'm not saying it is right, or that the King should have been taking commission in cash (gifts of jewels to other European Heads of State surely played a similar role of gratitude), but this was the reality.
- the lobbyists in question are very rarely heads of state with as much prestige and influence over policy as JC did in his heyday

- Spain’s economy was always going to be attractive to foreign investment Post Franco and it was settled government policy to seek out FDI - JC’s influence peddling was about lining his pockets and not the Spanish economy

- the gifts you refer to were not official state gifts which have official rules for how they are disposed of, they were personal gifts (bribes TBH) in exchange for favors

- the point that i was trying to get at was not only was all this highly unethical and illegal on JCs part, but that he was allowed to get away with it as nobody was willing to hold him accountable - and still are not.
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  #488  
Old 08-16-2020, 08:45 PM
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So it seems that our favourite interior decorator isn’t with JC in Abu Dhabi - sure, whatever....

https://okdiario.com/look/casa-real/...tos-995479/amp (needs google translate)
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  #489  
Old 08-16-2020, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
So it seems that our favourite interior decorator isn’t with JC in Abu Dhabi - sure, whatever....

https://okdiario.com/look/casa-real/...tos-995479/amp (needs google translate)
I find it believable. Make a few very public sightings far away from where JC is. At a restaurant they are known to go to. On her boat that is recognizable. So people can see where she is and not with JC at the moment.

No doubt she will join him eventually. But right now trying to play down all the rumors about them during what is going on.
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  #490  
Old 08-17-2020, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I find it believable. Make a few very public sightings far away from where JC is. At a restaurant they are known to go to. On her boat that is recognizable. So people can see where she is and not with JC at the moment.

No doubt she will join him eventually. But right now trying to play down all the rumors about them during what is going on.
I just realised that the cash gift that he gave her may have been another money laundering attempt and that MG may get fingered in this too - so won’t that be convenient for both of them to keep each over company whilst hiding out.
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  #491  
Old 08-17-2020, 04:24 AM
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I think she is not convenient to be with him, because according to what was published, when King Juan Carlos emptied his account in Switzerland about 2012, Marta was one of the beneficiaries. I believe that King Juan Carlos is alone, although I recognize that the move he has made to a country in the Gulf is very rare.
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  #492  
Old 08-17-2020, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I find it believable. Make a few very public sightings far away from where JC is. At a restaurant they are known to go to. On her boat that is recognizable. So people can see where she is and not with JC at the moment.

No doubt she will join him eventually. But right now trying to play down all the rumors about them during what is going on.
Why are tehre all these rumours that seem to be contradicted all the time? I thought that he had this mistress wit him - now she's not? Like he was going to Portugal and then he's in the Dominican republic... It all seems very chaoitc....
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  #493  
Old 08-17-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRIS1983 View Post
I think she is not convenient to be with him, because according to what was published, when King Juan Carlos emptied his account in Switzerland about 2012, Marta was one of the beneficiaries. I believe that King Juan Carlos is alone, although I recognize that the move he has made to a country in the Gulf is very rare.
time to act wisely and distance from him.
unless he is going to die soon and who knows what will then happen,
the situation will not calm down and further investigation might be problematic
for some if his friends. in both fiscal and social context.
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  #494  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:03 AM
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Zarzuela have just confirmed that JC has relocated temporarily to the UAE.
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  #495  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:09 AM
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BREAKING:
Royal House confirms the fate of King Juan Carlos.

The Palace of Zarzuela has revealed in a statement that King Juan Carlos moved on August 3 (the day on which the decision to leave was communicated) to the United Arab Emirates, where he remains today.

https://www.hola.com/realeza/casa_es...los-casa-real/
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  #496  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
Zarzuela have just confirmed that JC has relocated temporarily to the UAE.
he was seen there before, Sofia has good connection there, too.
I doubt it was only him who knew and certainly they all took the profits,
unfortunately there are too many involved in fiscal problems or crime
in this family, it'll be hard and is questionable if the monarchy will survive and we'll ever see a queen leonor.
i always felt it was a bad idea how franco treated JC, what did this man have to go through since his youngest days? he had no good base and sofia has managed to create her own image far better than his' ,but is responsible aswell, there is always two in a broken marriage. it's late but the truth always wins and decisions made long ago now proof wrong.
i would not like to be Felipe, hope his daughters find more peace with or without
spain remaining monarchy.
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  #497  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:20 AM
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The Spanish Government have guaranteed that JC will return to Spain if he is called to any investigation. Interesting times ahead...
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  #498  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivat View Post
he was seen there before, Sofia has good connection there, too.
I doubt it was only him who knew and certainly they all took the profits,
unfortunately there are too many involved in fiscal problems or crime
in this family, it'll be hard and is questionable if the monarchy will survive and we'll ever see a queen leonor.
i always felt it was a bad idea how franco treated JC, what did this man have to go through since his youngest days? he had no good base and sofia has managed to create her own image far better than his' ,but is responsible aswell, there is always two in a broken marriage. it's late but the truth always wins and decisions made long ago now proof wrong.
i would not like to be Felipe, hope his daughters find more peace with or without
spain remaining monarchy.
Yes, an image was circulated purporting to show him disembark an aircraft in Abu Dhabi but this is the first confirmation of his whereabouts. I disagree that there are always two in the wrong for a failed marriage - JC was unable to control his urges whilst the Queen has been beyond reproach. JC going to Spain as a child was the only way to work towards a restoration. At the time it was the sacrifice that needed to be made for the dynasty, and in the long run was the best for the country. Despite all that has come to light in recent years JC was the pilot of the transition and stood up to the coup d' etat on 23-F - no small deal for a Head of State in a post-Civil War nation coming out of dictatorship.
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  #499  
Old 08-17-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vivat View Post
he was seen there before, Sofia has good connection there, too.
I doubt it was only him who knew and certainly they all took the profits,
unfortunately there are too many involved in fiscal problems or crime
in this family, it'll be hard and is questionable if the monarchy will survive and we'll ever see a queen leonor.
i always felt it was a bad idea how franco treated JC, what did this man have to go through since his youngest days? he had no good base and sofia has managed to create her own image far better than his' ,but is responsible aswell, there is always two in a broken marriage. it's late but the truth always wins and decisions made long ago now proof wrong.
i would not like to be Felipe, hope his daughters find more peace with or without spain remaining monarchy.
King Felipe VI has nothing to do with the business of his brother-in-law (who was convicted) nor with the accounts of his father, King Juan Carlos, from abroad.
I believe that the monarchy will continue.
A few days ago the Spanish newspaper ABC published a very positive survey for the monarchy.
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  #500  
Old 08-17-2020, 10:35 AM
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Begs the question, how is he paying for his stay in the UAE if it now seems to be more "permanent" than just a brief stop over visit?
So far its been said his stay is likely being paid for by the rich UAE rulers but is that really better for Spain in the long run? Especially given the claims of bribes and payoffs from Saudi Arabia.
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