King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022


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Darius1 said:
I can't see divorce ever having been an option. A divorce in the 70's would have killed off JC's standing with that most Catholic of dictators, Franco; in the 80's threatened the stability of the transition; in the 90's it might have opened the flood gates of scrutiny and criticism we are seeing today, and later in the reign with an arrangement that seemed to work, I suppose the thinking was why bother...
In any case as monarchs of the Catholic faith it would have been difficult and an annulment would have been undesirable raising the issue of a putative marriage and the consequences it might have for a future King of Spain to have been born of such a union. Much too messy.
They were stuck with this situation and for years it seemed to work.
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As a Protestant, I'm unfamiliar with the 'Declaration of nullity' which is a judgement on marriage declared by the Roman Catholic church.
How could the marriage of King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia be considered by the Pope for an annulment?
 
WreathOfLaurels said:
At the risk of contradicting myself or being a hypocrite I would add something. All the points that have been raised are valid but there is something else. On an purely emotional level, for whatever reason, JC and S have not made one another happy for some time and are too set in their ways to change. For anyone else a divorce would be the best solution. Indeed their daughter and a number of their relatives have done so with little consequence. The idea that somehow this would have been impossible or taboo has always struck me as far fetched. I aways thought letting all this fester was more dangerous, and the events of the last decade I believe prove my theory correct. The main opposition has always come the most strongly from S herself and the government opposition to me smacks of execissive caution and a lack of imagination. Although in fairness they got spooked by what happens in the UK at the same time.

And I can’t help having some sympathy for JC in all this, scathing as I have been in other posts. Being in effect held prisoner by someone who has made their indifference and contempt for you clear, and refuses to let you go despite being able to do so, is a particular kind of living hell that should not be underestimated. This dynamic more than anything explains a lot of his behaviour over the last twenty years and his behaviour to S I believe needs to be Seen in this context. At least that’s how I see it.
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I can understand your view I have to say, and if they were your ordinary 'kids have moved out so lets get divorced' couple I would agree actually, but the added complication here is that divorcing would mean Sofia loosing her position as well as her marriage. I would also say, given JC cheated on Corinna with another woman I don't think its as if he wanted to really marry Corinna and settle into a blissful life. I wonder if actually he was quite happy to stay married - not just for the public show of a King & Queen for Spain but also as a reason not to be able to commit further to one woman...or even two. I wonder how many times he 'had to run back to Sofia' or so he told Corinna or another woman and was actually running off another woman altogether. Everyone he was in a relationship would have known he was married to Sofia so it was in many ways perhaps the perfect cover.
 
irish_royalist said:
As a Protestant, I'm unfamiliar with the 'Declaration of nullity' which is a judgement on marriage declared by the Roman Catholic church.
How could the marriage of King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia be considered by the Pope for an annulment?
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I am not a Catholic either but I certainly remember the huge outrage in Hoboken NJ when Frank Sinatra got an annulment from his first wife Nancy after having three children by her so that he could marry Barbara Marx in a Catholic Ceremony. Barbara was a widow with a son. The Pope had no problem allowing the Declaration of Nullity. Nancy and her family extremely hurt and their children furious at the time. Plus Frank had two marriages in-between with Ava Gardner and Mia Farrow to boot. Always a way, I guess.
 
irish_royalist said:
As a Protestant, I'm unfamiliar with the 'Declaration of nullity' which is a judgement on marriage declared by the Roman Catholic church.
How could the marriage of King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia be considered by the Pope for an annulment?
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There are a number of grounds on which an annulment can be granted:

-marriage ceremony was invalid: like performed outside of the church
-contract: mainly if there was deception from the start which can be proven. That can include things like not intending to be faithful. Or not intending to have children.
-free will: mental incapacity, fraud, fear, force and so on that means one of the two didn't act of their own free will in entering the marriage
-capacity: too closely related, already married, taken a vow of chastity


Those are the general categories and many reasoning for each one. I guess they could argue that JC never planned to be faithful to his wife from the start so he entered it never intending to honor the contract.
 
Countessmeout said:
There are a number of grounds on which an annulment can be granted:

-marriage ceremony was invalid: like performed outside of the church
-contract: mainly if there was deception from the start which can be proven. That can include things like not intending to be faithful. Or not intending to have children.
-free will: mental incapacity, fraud, fear, force and so on that means one of the two didn't act of their own free will in entering the marriage
-capacity: too closely related, already married, taken a vow of chastity


Those are the general categories and many reasoning for each one. I guess they could argue that JC never planned to be faithful to his wife from the start so he entered it never intending to honor the contract.
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JC and S needed papal dispensation when they got married on the grounds of consanguinity (too closely related in the eyes of the church) and that S was not a catholic at the time of the wedding, so both would be valid reasons, and popes have been happy to nullify dispensations of previous popes when called to do so.

Arguing that JC was planning to be unfaithful from the start sounds like a stretch - even if it was true, it would be impossible to prove to any real satisfaction and he’d almost certainly deny it.
 
I think it would have been an unfortunate position to put Felipe - born of a putative marriage and would have sullied the monarchy's image in the early bonanza days of the reign.
 
Blog Real said:
King Juan Carlos may return to Spain in October.

Carlos Herrera, a Spanish journalist, says King Juan Carlos can return to Spain on October 12 on a regular flight.

https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencia...greso-espana-abu-dabi-carlos-herrera_2762423/
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That's on national day, why not return on a day when you get maximal attention. Maybe he can even gatecrash the parade. I only believe that JC returns to Spain when I see it. Where should he stay without being chased by the paparazzi? That's something only the Arabs could do for him, total privacy in luxury.
 
These are the ten reasons why a catholic person can ask for the annulment of the marriage, I am not good at translating, but I will try.

https://www.abc.es/sociedad/20140220/abci-nulidad-matrimonial-liguria-201402191716.html

King Juan Carlos cannot request the annulment of the marriage.


1. Impediment of impotence in both men and women (canon 1084).

2. Impediment of link (canon 1085). If you were married previously and that bond has not been broken

3. Inhibition of consanguinity (canon 1091). Between two brothers (of the same father and the same mother), a marriage cannot be contracted because there is an impediment of natural law. In the case of first cousins, the bishop may dispense this impediment. .


4. Vice of consent due to lack of use of reason (canon 1095, 1º).
5. Vice of consent due to serious lack of internal discretion (canon 1095, 2º). It can occur in the case of a wedding couple who, after two years of relations, realizes that she is pregnant. When their parents hear the news, they pressure young people to marry even though they are not determined. If during the process it is possible to prove that one or both have not been internally free to express consent, that marriage can be declared void.

6. Nullity due to inability to assume the essential obligations of marriage due to causes of a psychic nature (canon 1095, 3º).

7. Error about the person (canon 1097). It occurred in the Middle Ages when the kings agreed to a marriage and the future spouses saw each other for the first time on the wedding day. There they realized that the person who had introduced himself was not the future husband or wife. Today it is difficult to produce.

8. Fraud to obtain consent (canon 1098). Being sterile is not a cause of marriage annulment if the other party is aware of this circumstance. On the other hand, if the person knows that she or he is sterile and hides it because if not the marriage is not celebrated, then it is a cause of nullity.

9. Simulation of marriage by exclusion of one of its essential properties --unity or fidelity, indissolubility and openness to life-- (canon 1101). This is the case of a person who simulates consent at the time of marriage. In her inner forum she is excluding some of the characteristics of marriage such as fidelity, indissolubility or procreation. For example, you are getting married but not with the intention of having children and your spouse does not know it. The problem in these cases is the evidence, but usually there are witnesses who have heard one of the parties express their true intentions.

10. Defect of form (canon 1108).This is when, for example, they were married before a priest who was not titled to celebrate the marriage..
 
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WreathOfLaurels said:
JC and S needed papal dispensation when they got married on the grounds of consanguinity (too closely related in the eyes of the church) and that S was not a catholic at the time of the wedding, so both would be valid reasons, and popes have been happy to nullify dispensations of previous popes when called to do so.

Arguing that JC was planning to be unfaithful from the start sounds like a stretch - even if it was true, it would be impossible to prove to any real satisfaction and he’d almost certainly deny it.
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Why would he deny it? JC would have been the one seeking an annulment. He isn't going to deny one of the reasons to get him out of the marriage. We're not talking Sofia trying to get the marriage ended and JC fighting her on it.

Her not being catholic at the time is hardly a valid reason. Even commoners catholic priests had an issue marrying a couple who were mixed. All they had to do was agree that the kids would be raised Catholic. As their three children were raised catholic, and Sofia converted, they would be hard pressed to convince a pope that was grounds to nullify a dispensation.

Catholics forbid marriage within four degrees of consanguinity. Sofia and JC are not within four degrees so no dispensation was required for that. They are both the great-great grandchildren of Queen Victoria. As third cousins they are in the 8th degree of relationship. Even back when they went all the way to 7 degrees of relation or you needed a dispensation, JC and Sofia are still beyond that need.

https://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/78th2015/Exhibits/Assembly/JUD/AJUD599G.pdf
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
That's on national day, why not return on a day when you get maximal attention. Maybe he can even gatecrash the parade. I only believe that JC returns to Spain when I see it. Where should he stay without being chased by the paparazzi? That's something only the Arabs could do for him, total privacy in luxury.
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The article was in vanitatis which is not the most reliable source.
I say lets wait and see if the old king does return.
 
Honestly, all the Scandal that has been formed by his departure from Spain, and now he says that he is going to return, it does not make sense.I would say that the image of King Juan Carlos is now worse than before he left. I don't think he's going to come back right away.
 
An Ard Ri said:
The article was in vanitatis which is not the most reliable source.
I say lets wait and see if the old king does return.
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Perhaps journalist/friend Carlos Herrera is putting out the possibility of a return just to be provocative, to see if there is any support whatsoever for JC's return to Spain.

There is still the business of the Catalonian Omnium Cultural apparent beef with JC, raising a big stink with the Swiss Government asking them to freeze his ill gotten gains still sitting in their banks. According to WreathofLaurels article several members of the Swiss Federal Assembly have requested further investigations, refusing to take "no" for an answer. https://www.omnium.cat/en/omnium-cu...-in-switzerland-reaches-the-swiss-parliament/

JC is in so much hot water! There are so many layers to his ongoing messes. Sophia, Corinna, divorce/no divorce!
He is 82 years old, he needs to give it all a rest and stay put in Abu Dhabi.
 
As I said in a previous post I can only foresee a return by JC in extremis ie. with a terminal illness and being allowed home to die in Spain. I think it is established that he has entered a kind of exile, no public duties on behalf of the country, no official assignation, he has to all intents and purposes "disappeared". A return to Spain would only provoke calls for some kind of investigation, trial etc. which will lose impetus the longer he stays away. Out of sight, out of mind.
 
IRIS1983 said:
Honestly, all the Scandal that has been formed by his departure from Spain, and now he says that he is going to return, it does not make sense.I would say that the image of King Juan Carlos is now worse than before he left. I don't think he's going to come back right away.
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I agree, I doubt Juan Carlos will return to Spain and the article stating he would did surprise me (though not when I read it was from Vanitatis, which as I understand is more along the lines of the Daily Mail).
 
Marengo said:
Corinna wouldn't be the first disgruntled mistress who dislikes the wife of her lover. Neither would JC be the first lover who tells his mistress that he wants a divorce but that due to practicalities he can't. These kind of stories are as old as the road to Rome.

In how far there were actually plans for a divorce is open to question. I can't see the King -while in full possession of his mental capabilities- being naïve enough to think in the 2010s that he could get away with making Corinna Spain's queen. Although JC may have told Corinna that he wanted a divorce I think it does not necessarily mean that he was planning a divorce himself.
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I think the only thing that made Corinna special was that she happened to be the woman JC was with when he finally got caught in a way that couldn’t be ignored.

I don’t know what JC may have told Corinna but if he told her how special she was and of course he’d marry her if only his wife wasn’t so difficult and so many people weren’t working against him, and she believed him then, IMO, she should feel pretty humiliated that she fell for the line men have been using to string their mistresses along since time out of mind. That’s something I would have kept to myself.

Who knows how many women heard the same story from JC over the decades? What should be clear after the Botswana debacle was that he was never going to divorce his wife and not because said wife was trapping him in the marriage. JC supposedly spent years with Corinna; she’s made a point of saying how much he loved her and adored her son, (whether that was true or not is anyone’s guess),
But when the choice came down to continuing to see Corinna vs continuing to be King of Spain he dropped her and never looked back.

JC and Sofia have been united by their common goal in life - the continuation of the Spanish monarchy. They may have wished many times over the years that there was a way to make that happen without the two of them having to stay together, but I doubt either of them ever seriously contemplated walking away.
 
Dear Corrina feels she was wronged, what a pity. This must be the pitfall if one hang's on the shirttail of a married man. Wow she felt uncomfortable, that works for me,did she ever ask herself how Q Sofia and their children felt??
 
Does that mean that He had to abdicate ?
After the Abdication of our King Albert II , we have now a new Princess!
 
maria-olivia said:
Does that mean that He had to abdicate ?
After the Abdication of our King Albert II , we have now a new Princess!
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I think he had to abdicate. His financial dealings were catching up iwth him....
 
Corinna lies, because she was the one who said that the Juan Carlos money, 2008, was from the AVE commission, however, a month ago, the consortium of companies that made the AVe said that this was not possible, because that work was awarded in 2011, and Shahpari Azam Zanganeh confirms this. In addition Shahpari Azam Zanganeh says that she was the intermediary for the management of the award of the work, and that she was hired by the Spanish consortium (she is an intermediary, she works on it) Corinna was not the intermediary as she said and as she has led to believe to the Swiss justice, it even seems that it was going to be her version before the Spanish judge. This is curious, Corinna has granted this interview, after the Consortium declared it, now in the new interview given to OK Diario, she says that it is not a commission of the AVE.
 
It seems Darling Corrina is giving the former king and her lover a kick in the rear,so he gets rolled over by a Bus. Well isn't she s sweetheart , she has the need to look good. Me calling her a Darling and sweetheart is not an endearment, but something different.
 
Oh my goodness, is there are monarch left, Sweden, GB, Spain and Monaco is through, more mistresses to come out with stories?
I wonder how the younger generation will deal or be dealt with possibly committed adultery concerning social media and the more and more transparency in our modern societies-if they remain being monarchs, though it is as old as the road to Rome.

I wonder a lot why miss Larsen talks so much, I mean does she still need money?
her son will feel humilated, I cannot understand how a mother can risk this.
she used to run a business, too and her rather exclusive partners will not appreciate her delicate news in the press every now and then.
is she just getting too old and bored in normal life and seeks attention?
or is there more and she has to fear getting into and being left the victim in the fiscal investigations?
Dios mio!
 
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