King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022

[Princess_Eleanor]

How many years have he and Queen Sofia (supposedly been) estranged?

According to Pilar Eyre, who wrote the biography "La soledad de la Reina" (The loneliness of the Queen) on Sofia, she privately separated from him in 1976 after catching him with another woman. She's often quoted with that date, I suppose because it's the only concrete date anyone has suggested. Who knows but I think it's been a long time...

 

[Mbruno]

According to Pilar Eyre, who wrote the biography "La soledad de la Reina" (The loneliness of the Queen) on Sofia, she privately separated from him in 1976 after catching him with another woman. She's often quoted with that date, I suppose because it's the only concrete date anyone has suggested. Who knows but I think it's been a long time...

If that is true, it must have been terrible to be separated from your spouse for 44 years and not be able to marry or be with someone else. Whereas that was not uncommon for many queens consort in the past, they generally had their own lovers too. As far as I know, Queen Sofia on the other hand has lived a chaste life all that time.

 

[cathy50]

But i think this generation of Sofia many women lived like that. how many perfect couples do you know? it is not so special, divorce was then unsual nit only because of faith or dynasty. anyway if Sofia wanted she could have done it, but she chosen to remain queen, it was her decision. chastity which was mentioned does not mean you do not be close to your husband, chastity is much more. i do not know but don't believe Sofia was chaste in the real sense, but this is left to privacy.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

If that is true, it must have been terrible to be separated from your spouse for 44 years and not be able to marry or be with someone else. Whereas that was not uncommon for many queens consort in the past, they generally had their own lovers too. As far as I know, Queen Sofia on the other hand has lived a chaste life all that time.

I agree, it sounds terrible and it's just very sad if you're in a 58-year-marriage, the last majority of which has been spent separated & alone but without a real chance of finding new love.

 

[tommy100]

I'm not Spanish but I'd think most would rather have someone graceful and serene like Sofia as Queen rather than Corinna or who ever else JC decided to marry. To be honest I bet he liked being married to Sofia as it gave him an excuse not to be able to commit (or be tied down) to his many mistresses. The ultimate get out clause.

If JC felt able to transfer such a large amount to Corinna do we think he and the RF have kept other amounts for themselves?

 

[Mbruno]

I'm not Spanish but I'd think most would rather have someone graceful and serene like Sofia as Queen rather than Corinna or who ever else JC decided to marry. To be honest I bet he liked being married to Sofia as it gave him an excuse not to be able to commit (or be tied down) to his many mistresses. The ultimate get out clause.

If JC felt able to transfer such a large amount to Corinna do we think he and the RF have kept other amounts for themselves?

That is actually the crucial question IMHO. If it turns out that all the money went to Corinna, then the monarchy can emerge from this scandal without any significant long-term damage. However, if part of the money was intended for JC's children, especially for Felipe as his heir, then things get complicated.

Felipe has shielded himself and his family by renouncing any inheritance from JC, but there is still a lingering question regarding how much he knew (or did not know) about his father's secret accounts. He denies any knowledge whatsoever, but it is not impossible that he knew about it and only denied it when JC was caught. If the latter is true and Felipe lied about it, then his reign would be in danger, but it is a big if.

So far, I think the establishment's reaction has been to protect Felipe and throw JC under the bus if needed. Maybe now that he chose self-exile, he will be just left alone until natural life runs its course, which is perhaps the most convenient solution for everyone involved.

 

[Marengo]

Speculative posts and replies have been deleted. This thread has now been re-opened.

 

[Princess_Eleanor]

I'm not Spanish but I'd think most would rather have someone graceful and serene like Sofia as Queen rather than Corinna or who ever else JC decided to marry. To be honest I bet he liked being married to Sofia as it gave him an excuse not to be able to commit (or be tied down) to his many mistresses. The ultimate get out clause.

If JC felt able to transfer such a large amount to Corinna do we think he and the RF have kept other amounts for themselves?

I think there is no way that Corinna would have ever been accepted as Queen by the Spanish people. I just can't picture it. And Sofia is very popular, divorcing her and replacing her with anyone would have always been a disaster.

Much as the European monarchies may have been modernized, I think there is still an understanding that once someone is Queen Consort, that is it. You do not divorce the Queen and replace her with somebody else, it's just not done.

 

[Prinsara]

I think there is no way that Corinna would have ever been accepted as Queen by the Spanish people. I just can't picture it. And Sofia is very popular, divorcing her and replacing her with anyone would have always been a disaster.

Much as the European monarchies may have been modernized, I think there is still an understanding that once someone is Queen Consort, that is it. You do not divorce the Queen and replace her with somebody else, it's just not done.

Since there is no divorce in the Catholic Church Sofia would have been seen as the permanent wife anyway. Anything else would have been "merely" legal and rather shady. Seeing as how he would certainly not be able to give a Sofia-replacement the title of "Catholic Majesty", I doubt even JC would have had the cojones to try for "Queen". (Or to try for an annulment, for that matter.)

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Taki’s two drachmas worth on all this

https://www.takimag.com/article/current-affairs/

 

[Prinsara]

Taki’s two drachmas worth on all this

https://www.takimag.com/article/current-affairs/

I think the only interesting thing in that was saying he kept his throne from Constantine's mistaken example.

 

[Somebody]

Hmm, and the final line on Albert is insinuating there is more going on with Corinna...

That she is mostly after money seems clear; she is also still trying to get money from her former husband (who is hiding for court). As if she would need any of that after ensuring she got 65 million from Juan Carlos.

 

[Prinsara]

So nobody knows where the money is, right? Because it disappeared into Corinna's possession? Could she be called to account for what she did with it, or is she clear because of JC's gift statement?

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

So nobody knows where the money is, right? Because it disappeared into Corinna's possession? Could she be called to account for what she did with it, or is she clear because of JC's gift statement?

The most common strategies for hiding money like this are:

1) divide it up into smaller amounts and keep it in nondescript accounts

2) transform it into concrete assets (property, art, jewelry etc...) or liquid assets (Stocks, shares, bonds, portfolios etc...)

3) hand it on to others again - trust funds are popular for this

4) offshore accounts - since Switzerland is ruled out, the Caribbean and some parts of the pacific are popular for this

I’m guessing Corinna has probably hidden and laundered the money using any combination of these strategies.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

I think the only interesting thing in that was saying he kept his throne from Constantine's mistaken example.

I actually think that that line about Constantine is a cliche and a misunderstanding about what actually happened. The situation in Greece in 1967 was quite different from Spain in 1981, mostly the threat of local communist parties and the degree of US involvement.

Also, as JC himself has said in the past - the 23-F golpistas never cut the lines of communication to Zarzuela or attempted to isolate JC by arresting him or placing his residence under armed guard. The colonels did cut the phone lines and did place Constantine under house arrest for all practical purposes - an important fact that often gets over looked.

Constantine's options in April 1967 were far more limited than Juan Carlos’s were in February 1981.

 

[stef]

I agree with you, the comparison of the two coups is totally wrong. In Spain, a high position in the Civil Guard, Tejero, took the Spanish Parliament, he did not even control the media and he did not control the army.The Spanish coup, consisted of kidnapping the Spanish parliament. King Juan carlos could to speak by tv and he had the control of army.

However the colonels' coup began with control of the media, the army took over television, disable the phone lines. It was in the night. The Colonels mobilized the entire army by taking the cities, the public buildings, at night, even the Tatoi palace, and they did it through a NATO operation, which was designed for the case.
At night, the fractions of the Greek army, faced with the chaos that the situation caused, began to threaten each other, it was on the verge of the civil war.

Taki can be greek but I recognize that every time he talks about the history of Greece, he makes serious historical mistakes, on other occasions he defends the colonels saying that if the king had supported them, other times he speaks wonders of Franco.

And I don't think that Queen Sofia cared about the colonels' conviction, it was a military trial, and the death penalty was only symbolic,I think Taki must have been crying that day.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Some updates in the case

Corinna attempts to get the recording withdrawn(?) as evidence in the investigation: https://www.elconfidencial.com/amp/...lia-villarejo-interrogatorio-londres_2741083/

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

A good piece from Der Spiegel “The Last Macho: Rise and Fall of Spain’s Former King Juan Carlos” (In English - no paywall)

https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#ref=rss

 

[Prinsara]

I can't get it to open on mobile, but here's a slightly wonky English translation.
https://unfoldtimes.com/the-last-ma...r-king-juan-carlos-der-spiegel-international/

I didn't know Sofia studied music and archeology. Or went to Salem.

So in JC's own words, people under 40 in Spain will only remember him as "the man with Corinna, the elephants, and the suitcases". Eeesh.

 

[Lipe]

This article was published a week ago, and I found it quite interesting. The Consortium of companies that has made the Mecca train, affirms at the end of the article that the consortium was created in 2011 and did not participate in previous construction award processes. This means that the money in question, of 2008, that Corinna said that it was a commission for this construction, this is not possible, because the consortium was created in 2011, it was then that the work was awarded.
https://www.elmundo.es/loc/casa-real/2020/09/05/5f5220e7fdddffda698b45d2.html

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

So in JC's own words, people under 40 in Spain will only remember him as "the man with Corinna, the elephants, and the suitcases". Eeesh.

At least he’s not totally devoid of self awareness; just mostly.

 

[Prinsara]

At least he’s not totally devoid of self awareness; just mostly.

Wouldn't being aware of the botch you've made of things be enough to flee? Otherwise he'd still be trying to brazen it out in España.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Wouldn't being aware of the botch you've made of things be enough to flee? Otherwise he'd still be trying to brazen it out in España.

He’s self aware to have (eventually) realized how bad all this looks, but wasn’t self aware enough to stay out of trouble in the first place.

 

[Prinsara]

He’s self aware to have (eventually) realized how bad all this looks, but wasn’t self aware enough to stay out of trouble in the first place.

That would require being aware you could get into trouble (that you can't get out of).

I think that's something the article touched on. Despite both coming from exiled backgrounds (JC arguably even more so), Sofia seems to have always been more aware of carefully maintaining public goodwill, while he took it more for granted.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Corinna continues to give interviews:
Corinna Larsen has stated in an interview published by Paris Match that the king emeritus revealed his fears, before abdicating, that he was being subjected to what the German businesswoman describes as an "internal coup", urged by both the royal family, with Queen Sofía at the helm, and the former Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy. The publication, which has quickly become viral, shows several intimate images, one of them in particular causes a notable stir: Juan Carlos is seen dressed informally with Corinna's son, Alexander, at a barbeque. As the caption of the photo highlights, the image has been taken at La Angorrilla farm, owned by the National Heritage and located very close to Zarzuela palace.

According to Corinna, the ex-monarch was "very explicit" when he told her about his concern of two fronts working against him, the first being that of his wife and "her lieutenants", since Sofia would be in a hurry to put Felipe on the throne because she had much more influence on him than on her husband. On the second front, Larsen points out in the interview, collected by Europa Press, that Juan Carlos pointed directly at the former president of the Government, Mariano Rajoy, who wanted to "castrate him and weaken the monarchy."
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...haciendo-barbacoa/00031600425874210419585.htm

 

[Prinsara]

Corinna continues to give interviews:
Corinna Larsen has stated in an interview published by Paris Match that the king emeritus revealed his fears, before abdicating, that he was being subjected to what the German businesswoman describes as an "internal coup", urged by both the royal family, with Queen Sofía at the helm, and the former Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy. The publication, which has quickly become viral, shows several intimate images, one of them in particular causes a notable stir: Juan Carlos is seen dressed informally with Corinna's son, Alexander, at a barbeque. As the caption of the photo highlights, the image has been taken at La Angorrilla farm, owned by the National Heritage and located very close to Zarzuela palace.

According to Corinna, the ex-monarch was "very explicit" when he told her about his concern of two fronts working against him, the first being that of his wife and "her lieutenants", since Sofia would be in a hurry to put Felipe on the throne because she had much more influence on him than on her husband. On the second front, Larsen points out in the interview, collected by Europa Press, that Juan Carlos pointed directly at the former president of the Government, Mariano Rajoy, who wanted to "castrate him and weaken the monarchy."
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notic...haciendo-barbacoa/00031600425874210419585.htm

And now I do question whether she really did (and certainly whether she does) still care for JC. Who benefits by an interview like this? It's not him and it's not her.

Does she need the money that badly?

 

[An Ard Ri]

I'm surprised at the accusations against Mariano Rajoy whom I always assumed was an ardent monarchist.

No surprises at the opinions on Queen Sofía who couldn't wait to be the doting queen mother.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

I'm surprised at the accusations against Mariano Rajoy whom I always assumed was an ardent monarchist.

Stanley Baldwin was also an “ardent monarchist” but he was also the man who masterminded the abdication of Edward VIII when it became clear that David wasn’t up to snuff as king. The person and and the institution are separate things - support for one isn’t support for the other, especially when the current incumbent is not living up to what the institution requires of them.

 

[Blog Real]

Mariano Rajoy is a great supporter of the Monarchy.
What I understand from the interview is that King Juan Carlos probably thinks it was Mariano Rajoy who forced his abdication. But I'm sure Rajoy never wanted to overthrow The Monarquía, because he still defends the institution today.

 

[WreathOfLaurels]

Mariano Rajoy is a great supporter of the Monarchy.
What I understand from the interview is that King Juan Carlos probably thinks it was Mariano Rajoy who forced his abdication. But I'm sure Rajoy never wanted to overthrow The Monarquía, because he still defends the institution today.

From what I can tell Rajoy’s relationship with JC was pretty frosty from the start as the catholic and conservative Rajoy disapproved of JCs playboy lifestyle; never mind the fact that Rajoy became PM in the middle of a major economic crisis - JCs behavior and antics in this context were at best a distraction, and at worst a dereliction of his duty as king when Spain needed stable leadership. JCs poor health was also another strike against him in Rajoys eyes too, I suspect.


Rajoy, thus being more sympathetic to S and Felipe would not come as a suprise in this context. However, there was no conspiracy per se. Just damage control and JC’s selfish inability to accept responsibility for his own downfall.

This article goes into more detail about the Paris match interview

https://www.vanitatis.elconfidencia...ch-entrevista-claridge-s-reina-sofia_2752547/