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  #381  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
The UAE would be uncomfortably hot at this time of year.
Not as hot as the atmosphere inside the Zarzuela were he still in residence there!
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  #382  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Susan D View Post
The UAE would be uncomfortably hot at this time of year.
I Hardly think that's a reason not to go there. by all accounts Juan has been travellng a lot since he abdicated.. Im sure he's used to hot climates
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  #383  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:55 AM
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I’m sure the luxury hotel he is staying in has a good air con system
In the height of luxury,he can well afford it and won't want for anything.
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  #384  
Old 08-08-2020, 06:04 AM
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A photo has just appeared on Twitter of JC getting off a plane in Abu Dhabi. Looks like he did come to the Gulf after all.
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  #385  
Old 08-08-2020, 06:41 AM
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The image of the king emeritus upon his arrival in Abu Dhabi.

https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/c...990670271.html
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  #386  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
Another interesting tidbit came up- if I may quote the newspaper:
"Another option under consideration was to settle his tax dues, even beyond the five years set by the law as the statute of limitations on tax crimes. Sources consulted by this newspaper said that the problem was that this would force Juan Carlos I to pay over €60 million, if a multi-million donation by the late Saudi king Abdullah was included in his taxable income. And that was beyond the former king’s current ability to pay. o]

Can't he make a deal to settle the debt in installments over time rather than making a single lump payment?



Another negative side of this unfortunate story is that Felipe and Leonor after him have been deprived of any family inheritance and are now in an even more precarious financial situation than before and totally dependent on the apanage they get from the Spanish state. I hope that at least the family jewels have been transferred to Felipe after the abdication so that they can remain available to future generations of the RF.
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  #387  
Old 08-08-2020, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Can't he make a deal to settle the debt in installments over time rather than making a single lump payment?

Another negative side of this unfortunate story is that Felipe and Leonor after him have been deprived of any family inheritance and are now in an even more precarious financial situation than before and totally dependent on the apanage they get from the Spanish state. I hope that at least the family jewels have been transferred to Felipe after the abdication so that they can remain available to future generations of the RF.
https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/t...2990145133.htm
So even though the Supreme Court ruled that Juan Carlos cannot be called in for questioning because there is no official investigation, the prosecutor's office of the court could still be looking at calling for an investigation. It seems the "Omnium Cultural" in Barcelona was requesting a hearing. It does seem like a lot still has to happen before Juan Carlos is held accountable for pay back and then who would he pay back, the Saudis or the government in taxes? I'm also concerned about the royal family's jewels. Hopefully they are protected. I was wondering who is covering Queen Sophia's expenses, I suppose the government? Your questions concerning Felipe and then Leonor, the government? What a big royal mess!
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  #388  
Old 08-08-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Daly View Post
https://www.niusdiario.es/nacional/t...2990145133.htm
So even though the Supreme Court ruled that Juan Carlos cannot be called in for questioning because there is no official investigation the prosecutor's office of the court could still be looking at calling for an investigation. It seems the "Omnium Cultural" in Barcelona was requesting a hearing. It does seems like a lot still has to happen before Juan Carlos is held accountable for pay back and then who would he pay back, the Saudis or the government in taxes? I'm also concerned about the royal family's jewels. Hopefully they are protected. I was wondering who is covering Queen Sophia's expenses, I suppose the government? Your questions concerning Felipe and then Leonor, the government? What a big royal mess!
The money trail is so long and circuitous that it would take years to audit and decide on accountability. I imagine Sofia has long had a separate account and has enough in inheritance from Greece to maintain her standard of living. The Greeks were very smart in how they handled their finances despite several exiles. I imagine there was some sort of inheritance for Felipe from Frederika. I'm unclear what was inherited by the grandchildren from the estate of Don Juan de Borbon y Battenberg.
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  #389  
Old 08-08-2020, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Darius1 View Post
The money trail is so long and circuitous that it would take years to audit and decide on accountability.
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
The fear is that any audit of the royal finances might confirm the allegation that JC has been keeping property outside of Spain under third party accounts, as well as the true extent of the family’s wealth.
Yet it may be the family's best chance to move on from this: come clean with their assets, put all cards on the table, acknowledge mistakes were made, pay penalties and move forward. It would be painful for a little while (but not necessarily worse than what is going on now with all the speculations) and I think this would help Felipe /Leonor and perhaps enhance the image of the royal family. Let us not forget that even these issues go on the back burner after a while, upon Juan Carlos' eventual passing these questions will be revived - so better to pre-empt and settle them now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Can't he make a deal to settle the debt in installments over time rather than making a single lump payment?
I agree; surely they can make some sort of settlement.

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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Another negative side of this unfortunate story is that Felipe and Leonor after him have been deprived of any family inheritance [...] .
More reasons to come clean now; they cant wait too much longer.

I cant help thinking this family has been getting bad advice for too long, either that or they don't listen to advice.
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  #390  
Old 08-08-2020, 09:54 AM
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Queen Sofia abdicated her share of her parents' inheritance to her sister, Princess Irene.
As Princess Irene has no children and is very close to the children of Queen Sofia, I imagine that she will leave at least part of her assets to Felipe, Cristina and Elena.
I'm not sure what King Juan Carlos inherited from his parents, I just know that he inherited money and that that money was deposited in Switzerland, I don't know if part of that money still exists.
I believe Felipe has savings and investments and that everything should be cool.
I believe that the Spanish Royal Family is not as wealthy as the other royal families.
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  #391  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Daly View Post
I'm also concerned about the royal family's jewels. Hopefully they are protected. I was wondering who is covering Queen Sophia's expenses, I suppose the government?

If you take the tiaras as a reference (never mind the various earrings, brooches, necklaces and other smaller pieces), the big Fleur de Lys, the Cartier Pearl and Diamond, and the Cartier Loop tiaras were all assumed to be privately owned by King Juan Carlos prior to the abdication; the Floral, the Mellerio Shell, the Prussian , and the Ruby necklace tiaras are supposed to be owned by Queen Sofia. The only tiara that was probably owned directly by Felipe and/or Letizia was the Ansorena Asturias tiara, which Letizia wore only once at Queen Margrethe II's 75th birthday gala dinner and was apparently a wedding gift. There are rumors that Letizia also owns a second, unseen wedding gift tiara, but that has never been confirmed.

Since Letizia has worn the Fleur de Lys, the Cartier Pearl and Diamond, the Cartier Loop, and the Floral tiaras since she became Queen, it is possible that ownership of the latter has been already transferred to Felipe, but we cannot say that for sure.
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  #392  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:16 AM
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At least some of the jewels are the "joyas de pasar" and have been in a kind of family foundation since Queen Ena, if I'm not mistaken. They'd probably all be cultural/heritage property at this point.
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  #393  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If you take the tiaras as a reference (never mind the earrings, brooches, necklaces and other pieces), the big Fleur de Lys, the Cartier Pearl and Diamond, the Cartier Loop, and the Floral tiaras were all assumed to be privately owned by King Juan Carlos prior to the abdication; the Mellerio Shell tiara, the Prussian tiara and the Ruby necklace tiara are supposed to be owned by Queen Sofia. The only tiara that was probably owned directly by Felipe and/or Letizia was the Ansorena Asturias tiara, which Letizia wore only once at Queen Margrethe II's 75th birthday gala dinner and was apparently a wedding gift. There are rumors that Letizia also owns a second, unseen wedding gift tiara, but that has never been confirmed.



Since Letizia has worn the Fleur de Lys, the Cartier Pearl and Diamond, the Cartier Loop, and the Floral tiaras since she became Queen, it is possible that ownership of the latter has been already transferred to Felipe, but we cannot say that for sure.



Asde from the tiaras there are a lots of necklaces and Demi parures worn by Queen Sofia and Infanta's Elena and Cristina during the 1980's and 90'Äs from which it is assumed that they are party gift from foreings rulers like the Saudi's and other gulf state rulers. Queen Letizia has worn the earrings of one of the Sets at the State Visit to Japan.

The question is who owns them. Diod they they became personal property or State property.
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  #394  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:23 AM
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In Spain there are the so-called "Jewels of Passing" that pass from queen to queen.
All jewels belong to the Spanish Royal Family, even the crown and scepter that sometimes appear in some ceremonies as in the proclamation of the king.
The Tiara fleuer de Lis, the Tiara Cartier, the Tiara de la Chata and the Tiara of Queen Maria Cristina and other jewels now belong to Queen Letizia, as they belong to the so-called "Jewels of Passing".
Mellerio's Floral Tiara and Prussian Tiara are owned by Queen Sofia.
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  #395  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Asde from the tiaras there are a lots of necklaces and Demi parures worn by Queen Sofia and Infanta's Elena and Cristina during the 1980's and 90'Äs from which it is assumed that they are party gift from foreings rulers like the Saudi's and other gulf state rulers. Queen Letizia has worn the earrings of one of the Sets at the State Visit to Japan.

The question is who owns them. Diod they they became personal property or State property.



The State owns all the royal palaces the art collections and the regalia, but I don't think it owns any of the family's jewels, even if they were gifts from foreign rulers.

Whatever the legal situation is, however, to go back to the main topic of the thread, my concern is that the bulk of the family's collection, apart from whatever Sofia may want to leave to her daughters, should go to Felipe/Letizia and, then, Leonor and be protected from any settlement of JC's tax debt or from Felipe's renunciation to his father's inheritance. The Spanish RF still undertakes quite a lot of representation events and it would be sad to see a Belgian-like situation of a jewelless Queen or jewelless princesses also repeating itself in Spain. The family already lost too many pieces during their first exile in the 1930s.
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  #396  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:47 AM
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Where is Corinna Sayn-Wittgenstein residing at the moment?
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  #397  
Old 08-08-2020, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
The State owns all the royal palaces the art collections and the regalia, but I don't think it owns any of the family's jewels, even if they were gifts from foreign rulers.

Whatever the legal situation is, however, to go back to the main topic of the thread, my concern is that the bulk of the family's collection, apart from whatever Sofia may want to leave to her daughters, should go to Felipe/Letizia and, then, Leonor and be protected from any settlement of JC's tax debt or from Felipe's renunciation to his father's inheritance. The Spanish RF still undertakes quite a lot of representation events and it would be sad to see a Belgian-like situation of a jewelless Queen or jewelless princesses also repeating itself in Spain. The family already lost too many pieces during their first exile in the 1930s.
As I said in my post above, the jewels belong to the Spanish Royal Family.
The palaces and other properties belong to the Spanish state.
King Felipe VI can inherit from his mother and other family members, such as Princess Irene, the question of taxes is another conversation.
The Royal Family from now on has to do everything in a more transparent way.
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  #398  
Old 08-08-2020, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Where is Corinna Sayn-Wittgenstein residing at the moment?
I think she is between Monaco and London. I fear she may have further revelations about JC as this progresses

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As I said in my post above, the jewels belong to the Spanish Royal Family.
The palaces and other properties belong to the Spanish state.
King Felipe VI can inherit from his mother and other family members, such as Princess Irene, the question of taxes is another conversation.
The Royal Family from now on has to do everything in a more transparent way.
The fiscal status of the Joyas de Pasar is interesting. They were named as "relics of the Crown" in Victoria Eugenie's will and have passed from her to the Countess of Barcelona, Queen Sofia and then to Letizia. I haven't seen anything regarding any taxes as in the case of the inheritance by Sofia and Letizia this was done whilst the original "owner" was still alive. I can't imagine them becoming state property.
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  #399  
Old 08-08-2020, 11:43 AM
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I think she is between Monaco and London. I fear she may have further revelations about JC as this progresses
And goodness knows who or what else she may reveal.
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  #400  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:02 PM
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I'm really not surprised the corruption case ended up with Juan Carlos's exile - it was expected.
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