King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022


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For all the "things sound awful from hindsight" moments in Rey de España, JC (or younger-JC, anyway) really does/did come across as genuinely likeable and charming and quite sympathetic. It's both sad and probably why he got into so many varieties of trouble.
 
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But doesn't that just exacerbate the problem? Accepting free hospitality from one foreign ruler after leaving having been accused of accepting a bribe from another? Seems odd to me.

my thoughts, if he has made friends there, maybe they work smething out for him. you know the UAE buying some bug stuff from Spain again, some contract being revealed in the next days...
 
Why are tehre all these rumours that seem to be contradicted all the time? I thought that he had this mistress wit him - now she's not? Like he was going to Portugal and then he's in the Dominican republic... It all seems very chaoitc....

I think it's chaotic because it would seem apparent that JC has gone AWOL. He is not within the control of the Zarzuela press office and seems to be writing the script as he goes along.
 
I think it's chaotic because it would seem apparent that JC has gone AWOL. He is not within the control of the Zarzuela press office and seems to be writing the script as he goes along.

But there are so many different stories.. Did he put them out that he was going to X or Y? To confuse people? I think that the Spanish RF has now made this statement that he is in - UAE? And that's meant to stop the rumor's?
 
For all the "things sound awful from hindsight" moments in Rey de España, JC (or younger-JC, anyway) really does/did come across as genuinely likeable and charming and quite sympathetic. It's both sad and probably why he got into so many varieties of trouble.


Exactly and yes, hindsight is a wonderful thing. So when this is put into the context of time and the mindset of a society at that time, it's not so bad at all. Sofia almost appears progressive and not as the (back then) usual silent woman in the background.
I think especially in the early years he did a lot of things for the good of Spain that would be labelled illegal or criminal today, because this is what you do or is expected of you if you have to rebuild a nation, during those times. The other powers were complicit or looked the other way, as long as the charismatic King brought a profit for Spain nobody cared about the profit for himself and his family.

It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years.
 
:previous: Well put Duke of Marmalade :flowers:
"It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years."

I'm not giving excuses nor could I truly understand fully the dynamics of Spain's history but I have thought in regard to the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, what if Spain were still in a dictatorship mode of government? If King Juan Carlos had failed in his early leadership or as I understand it and perhaps wrongly what if Juan Carlos had not steered Spain into a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. I so appreciated the filmed interview showing the SRF and specifically Juan Carlos from the 1990's to give context and depth into the current situation today. I must say Juan Carlos was very charming and Queen Sophia with a strong voice and independent thinking.
 
:previous: Well put Duke of Marmalade :flowers:
"It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years."

I'm not giving excuses nor could I truly understand fully the dynamics of Spain's history but I have thought in regard to the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, what if Spain were still in a dictatorship mode of government? If King Juan Carlos had failed in his early leadership or as I understand it and perhaps wrongly what if Juan Carlos had not steered Spain into a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. I so appreciated the filmed interview showing the SRF and specifically Juan Carlos from the 1990's to give context and depth into the current situation today. I must say Juan Carlos was very charming and Queen Sophia with a strong voice and independent thinking.

I 100% agree with you. Were it not for JC and the other brave leaders of the transition there was nothing to stop Spain being what we see in some unfortunate South American countries today. Their role was massive in crafting a successful compromise in the Constitution and providing stability for the last 40 years. Did it paper over cracks and were there people on the make? Yes, but in all democracy in Spain today was built upon their work.
 
I 100% agree with you. Were it not for JC and the other brave leaders of the transition there was nothing to stop Spain being what we see in some unfortunate South American countries today. Their role was massive in crafting a successful compromise in the Constitution and providing stability for the last 40 years. Did it paper over cracks and were there people on the make? Yes, but in all democracy in Spain today was built upon their work.

Yes he did a good job in promoting democracy in Spain but he's undone all that, he has thrown a shadow over the rest of his family.. and had to leave his country under a cloud.
 
Yes he did a good job in promoting democracy in Spain but he's undone all that, he has thrown a shadow over the rest of his family.. and had to leave his country under a cloud.




It was not just promoting democracy, but turning Spain into a modern European country when the alternatives, as Darius said, would have been going back to a traditionalist righ-wing authoritarian state like the Franco regime or a Carlist monarchy, or a Bolivarian people's republic a la Venezuela, none of which would have been sustainable in the long run and would probably have ended badly.



Of course, it was not JC alone who did it, but he kickstarted the process when he was the only person capable of doing it, because he correctly realized it was the only viable future for Spain, and, then, he voluntarily stepped back as he should to let the politicians run the country. And, as much as we now think of the 2008 crisis and the current public health emergency and picture Spain as crisis country, the reality is that, in the past 40 years, not only did Spain enjoy political stability, but also it was a great economic success.



Yes, I think it is unfortunate that JC has damaged his reputation and legacy so late in his life after all he had been through before (including poverty and his mother having to "sell some jewels to pay the rent" as he mentioned in the 1992 interview). But when you also hear grandees of the 1980s and 1990s like Felipe Gonzalez or Javier Solana, who are important European (not only Spanish) personalities, praising his work as king, one has to admit that, at least at his prime, he was a very good monarch.
 
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I do not understand the strategy of King Juan Carlos or his lawyers or the Spanish Royal House...., I do not agree that he leaves the country, in Spain there are very discreet places. However, I do not think that it is beneficial for the image of King Juan Carlos to stay the Arab Emirates, stay in a luxury hotel, as a special guest of the authorities ...
What in my opinion this does not make any sense is that it transcends a photo of King Juan Carlos arriving to the Arab Emirates, it is obvious that this photo is prepared. He could have traveled to the United Arab Emirates, and no say nothing, he would have gone completely unnoticed.

It appears to me that King Juan Carlos doesn't really care now what people actually think. He is doing what he wants with whom he wants and by whatever means he wants. I am sure in his own mind he is doing nothing wrong as he is not costing his country any money so he will enjoy life now in much comfort and pampering. I am sure he feels he deserves. JMO
 
:previous: Well put Duke of Marmalade :flowers:
"It's sad to see that at some point he lost his way, very regrettable. Hopefully he does not destroy the little bit of respect that the Spanish owe him for his early years."

I'm not giving excuses nor could I truly understand fully the dynamics of Spain's history but I have thought in regard to the dictatorship of Francisco Franco, what if Spain were still in a dictatorship mode of government? If King Juan Carlos had failed in his early leadership or as I understand it and perhaps wrongly what if Juan Carlos had not steered Spain into a parliamentary constitutional monarchy. I so appreciated the filmed interview showing the SRF and specifically Juan Carlos from the 1990's to give context and depth into the current situation today. I must say Juan Carlos was very charming and Queen Sophia with a strong voice and independent thinking.

I don't want to get into making excuses, though. I don't think JC's "middle path" to democracy had to include quite so much corruption. Certainly by whenever the Saudis gave him that money, it wasn't for the stability of Spain, just for his own pocket.

I like the younger him and I feel a bit of sympathy now that I only had for his "likely fratricide" status before, but I still feel way sorrier for Felipe and the load JC dumped on him and his family.
 
It was not just promoting democracy, but turning Spain into a modern European country when the alternatives, as Darius said, would have been going back to a traditionalist righ-wing authoritarian state like the Franco regime or a Carlist monarchy, or a Bolivarian people's republic a la Venezuela, none of which would have been sustainable in the long run and would probably have ended badly.



Of course, it was not JC alone who did it, but he kickstarted the process when he was the only person capable of doing it, because he correctly realized it was the only viable future for Spain, and, then, he voluntarily stepped back as he should to let the politicians run the country. And, as much as we now think of the 2008 crisis and the current public health emergency and picture Spain as crisis country, the reality is that, in the past 40 years, not only did Spain enjoy political stability, but also it was a great economic success.



Yes, I think it is unfortunate that JC has damaged his reputation and legacy so late in his life after all he had been through before (including poverty and his mother having to "sell some jewels to pay the rent" as he mentioned in the 1992 interview). But when you also hear grandees of the 1980s and 1990s like Felipe Gonzalez or Javier Solana, who are important European (not only Spanish) personalities, praising his work as king, one has to admit that, at least at his prime, he was a very good monarch.

I have to agree, J-C had a key role in the development of Spain into a modern, progressive western European democracy. The result could well have been very different.

He has devoted his life to the country. From childhood, when he was packed off to live without his parents, in the care of the very individual who has exiled his grand father and father. To then, as an adult, skillfully navigating his way through to ensuring his announcement as heir and then eventually King, and all that followed. After all that, it is a pity that his own limitations and actions have led to his own legacy being blotted. A real shame, IMO!
 
If you think about it, being raised by a dictator kind of ensures that you will develop a facade of being agreeable and compliant while doing whatever you think you need to where no one can see. :/
 
I remember the esteem King Juan Carlos was once held in ,back in 1986 after his State Visit to the Irish Republic had concluded the then President of Ireland,Dr Patrick Hillery invited the Spanish king and queen to visit him at his holiday home aptly named Spanish Point and spend the weekend as his guests!

Now that does not happen too often,I think only Prince Rainier and Princess Grace were accorded that honour.

Back in 2014 the king was one year off celebrating his Ruby Jubilee which could have been a celebration of all his achievements but instead came his abdication.
 
I don't want to get into making excuses, though. I don't think JC's "middle path" to democracy had to include quite so much corruption. Certainly by whenever the Saudis gave him that money, it wasn't for the stability of Spain, just for his own pocket.

I like the younger him and I feel a bit of sympathy now that I only had for his "likely fratricide" status before, but I still feel way sorrier for Felipe and the load JC dumped on him and his family.

Yes, JC has derailed. I definitely have compassion for Felipe and his family. I am glad to have recently spent some time studying Spain's history.
 
I remember the esteem King Juan Carlos was once held in ,back in 1986 after his State Visit to the Irish Republic had concluded the then President of Ireland,Dr Patrick Hillery invited the Spanish king and queen to visit him at his holiday home aptly named Spanish Point and spend the weekend as his guests!

Now that does not happen too often,I think only Prince Rainier and Princess Grace were accorded that honour.

Back in 2014 the king was one year off celebrating his Ruby Jubilee which could have been a celebration of all his achievements but instead came his abdication.

Did he abidcate becuase of the looming scandals?
 
Yes, JC has derailed. I definitely have compassion for Felipe and his family. I am glad to have recently spent some time studying Spain's history.




If support for the monarchy is still at 56 % (vs 33 % for the republic) with this JC situation going on, I would tend to think that Felipe and Leonor are still pretty safe. And, as it has been mentioned here many times, the Spanish constitution of 1978 makes it very difficult to abolish the monarchy legally.



I would say that Catalan separatism is still a bigger threat than JC. It won't bring down the monarchy either, but can degrade its kingdom.


PS: A bigger threat of course only as long as Felipe is not directly involved in his father's scandals. Otherwise, things would get more complicated.
 
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Did he abidcate becuase of the looming scandals?

He was plagued by bad health, the backlash over his idiotic hunting expedition to Botswana and the imploding Noos scandal at that time.

Talk about poor advice and judgement for such a wise king.
 
The polls show that the older generation, those who have experienced the Franco regime or post Franco or the hard times afterwards actually cut him some slack but it's only natural that this does not apply to the younger generation. At this point you see a greedy old man who exiles himself into a luxury life sponsored by his arab friends.
 
More than 70 former ministers and senior officials of the PP and PSOE sign a manifesto in support of the reign of King Juan Carlos I.

The letter defends his presumption of innocence and recalls his legacy for the benefit of democracy.

75 former ministers and senior officials of the PP and PSOE, in addition to about fifteen ambassadors, have signed a manifesto in support of King Juan Carlos, defending his presumption of innocence and remembering his legacy in these more than 40 years of democracy.

https://elpais.com/espana/2020-08-1...9aoNhKvY1dzh1Bv3WvavgApXPBULQF3CoBp8XSjWLkGho
 
More than 70 former ministers and senior officials of the PP and PSOE sign a manifesto in support of the reign of King Juan Carlos I.

The letter defends his presumption of innocence and recalls his legacy for the benefit of democracy.

75 former ministers and senior officials of the PP and PSOE, in addition to about fifteen ambassadors, have signed a manifesto in support of King Juan Carlos, defending his presumption of innocence and remembering his legacy in these more than 40 years of democracy.

https://elpais.com/espana/2020-08-1...9aoNhKvY1dzh1Bv3WvavgApXPBULQF3CoBp8XSjWLkGho

Bravo!
I think the majority of the spanish people and especially the younger ones miss a overview and deeper understanding of the challenges this country would face if the monarchy was on edge.
no excuse for fiscal crime o.c. but there you can see a king is then only human and for the UAE it was peanuts, the spanish companies were happy to get the deal, there workers too, but now it's a mess.
by the way we do not know what's going on behind doors but his wife's behaviour not supporting him, tells a lot. Felipe needed to distance because of him being king but Sofia ? very disappointing.
 
So I guess the state of the Kings' marriage was 'normal' for his children, meeting the girlfriend, she organized the honeymoon of Felipe and Letizia, not a problem obviously.
 
Just when you thought it was safe to head off to exile... it’s the return of the ex! And this time she’s getting interviewed by the beeb!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-53749630?__twitter_impression=true




So Corinna doesn't deny receiving the money, but says she didn't know anything about any possible illegality thereof and claims she thought JC gave it to her out of love. But, at the same time, she claims JC had another mistress for 3 years while they were still together. And she tries to pose as a victim who was and is being harrassed by the Spanish intelligence services.


A plus for JC in the interview is that Corinna said she doesn't think JC gave her the gift as a way to launder money or as a tax evasion mechanism. She mantains it was his way of "taking care of her" and showing how important she and "her son" (?) were to him. And that JC had "a tantrum" when she refused to get back to him after 2014 and started demanding the money back.


It is also noteworthy that, according to her, after the elephant incident and the NOOS case, there were forces within the Spanish royal household actively pushing JC to abdicate.


Quite interesting really.


PS: I actually tend to believe the version that JC would feel the need to "take care" of his mistress(es). It is the way of Spanish men of his generation, no stereotypes intended.
 
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Corinna is desperate to defend herself. This interview is very sad and everything she said is very sad. She might as well have kept her mouth shut.
 
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Bravo!
I think the majority of the spanish people and especially the younger ones miss a overview and deeper understanding of the challenges this country would face if the monarchy was on edge.
no excuse for fiscal crime o.c. but there you can see a king is then only human and for the UAE it was peanuts, the spanish companies were happy to get the deal, there workers too, but now it's a mess.
by the way we do not know what's going on behind doors but his wife's behaviour not supporting him, tells a lot. Felipe needed to distance because of him being king but Sofia ? very disappointing.


Why would Sofia once again play doormat for a man that has never given her the respect and support she deserves? :ermm: And in an issue that involves one of his gazillion mistresses of all things :eek:
 
Corinna's testimony is contradictory, and it is prepared by her lawyers. She hints that her relationship had been broken since 2009, but she came to his aid when he was ill.
This does not correspond to reality, because curiously the account of the bank of King Juan Carlos empties between 2011 and 2012, and the hunt in Botswana is 2012. But also, she lived in a house near the Palacio de la Zarzuela, until 2013.
And the Spanish press in 2013 rumored that King Juan Carlos wanted to marry Corinna Larsen, she wanted to be Queen of Spain.

It is obvious that seems quite prepared by her lawyers.


Regarding the donation, if it were a gift, King Juan Carlos would never have claimed it.

She speaks of a family structure, 40 years ago, no, that is not possible, only a businesswoman like Corinna, could create that infrastructure. She was dedicated to investment funds in tax havens. She is who created the infrastructure. It was not 40 years ago, it was from 2004 when It began to create that infrastructure.
It is prepared, she lies, the dates do not correspond with the facts
 
I’m just starting following this... is Queen Sofia in the UAE with Juan Carlos, or is she still in Spain (or somewhere else?)
 
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