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  #281  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:42 AM
Nice Nofret's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
,,, But as Blog Real already stated, there are lots of questions now surrounding JC that will both the RF and the government a headache.

JC once said in an interview that in Spain you have to show the public every day that you are worth of being King, otherwise they will kick you out. This proved true again and let's add the government to it.

When it suits them or the climate is right, they will drop Felipe or Leonor or even her heir like a hot potato. The events around JC show again that nothing is save and the protection of those who matter is fickle.



We live in a time and age, where a monarchy is there to unite a country; to serve it's country. When that is no longer percived as beeing the case - the monarchy becomes irrelevant and will perish - sooner than later. That is very much true for Spain. Hopefully in Britain the Monarchy stays relevant enough. Hopefully in Spain too - the country is also divided a lot.
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  #282  
Old 08-04-2020, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kit View Post
Is there an English translation of JC‘s letter?? Unfortunately I don‘t speak Spanish.
There is one in this article:

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_n...n-scandal.html



Quote:
Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
There is something I do not understand in this whole Juan Carlos kickback/bribery/corruption money. Perhaps someone could explain.

It is established fact that KJC received $100 million from the late king of Saudi Arabia some years ago. (well documented press articles referred to the Ministry of finance in Saudi admitting to the transfer *gift*) It is widely rumoured that this has to do with Spanish consortium obtaining a big contract to do a train link in Saudi Arabia.
In cases like that it is the company who seeks the contract who pays the kickback. So logic would tell us that the Spanish consortium who is after the big contract would “give” a bribe/kick back/$favour -whatever you call it- to the decision maker in Saudi Arabia in exchange for them making the decision in favour of said company.. Not the other way around. I could also imagine the Spanish consortium contractor paying a gratification to KJC so that he could use his contacts, intercede in their favour with his friends the decision makers in Saudi Arabia. But why would the decision maker -Saudi Arabia-who awards the contract give a kickback in this case?
Everything in this case defies logic. Then turn around and transfer a huge chunk of the money to your mistress. Oh boy.... There is a lot we don’t know about this case.
Apparently that same question has been broached in Spain. Are there any plausible theories as for why the Saudi Arabian government would be the institution that paid the alleged kickback?
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  #283  
Old 08-04-2020, 12:29 PM
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He cannot become a fugitive in case there will be prosecution. I doubt there will be but if there is, he will have to come to Spain to face whatever he has to face or Felipe and his granddaughter will suffer. But JC might soon to be too old to face anything anyway.
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  #284  
Old 08-04-2020, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
I'm so sorry for Spain; JC did a lot to help build a Spanish democracy after Franco. It is such a shame, that money business. I can understand, how it happend, as the spanish royals were poor, and so he wanted to build a fortune for his family. As a reigning King, you do not have many ways to do business and earning money nowadays. He couldn't abolish cloisters and take the land for himselve or behead people for their money. In modern times royals cannot even open shops or businesses to earn money. So he was in a difficult situation.
I think this is hardly an excuse to act like this. I hope the monarchy will survive another major blow...!
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  #285  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
He cannot become a fugitive in case there will be prosecution. I doubt there will be but if there is, he will have to come to Spain to face whatever he has to face or Felipe and his granddaughter will suffer. But JC might soon to be too old to face anything anyway.
I don’t think the Spanish political and economic elite want this to end in Juan Carlos being prosecuted, either through the court in Spain or due to the investigation in Switzerland. If JC has to testify under oath about any part of this who knows what will come out? The politicians right now are saying there’s no evidence Felipe had any knowledge of what his father was doing. What they suspect in private may be a different story. Some of them are likely wondering how much they want to know. Do they really want this to lead to the spectacle of the current King being questioned by prosecutors? Being investigated? Charged?

Also, and maybe more importantly to the powers that be in Spain, who can guess the number of skeletons JC could drag out of the closet if he so chose? He’s in his 80s, he’s got enough money free and clear so that his children and grandchildren will be financially secure.. what’s to stop him from putting on record everything he knows? Every politician who ever accepted a bribe from one of JC’s friends in business. Every wealthy businessman who also got “gifts” from the Saudis in return for some project moving forward. Every prominent person who ever came to Juan Carlos to ask for help greasing the wheels for something that at the time seemed harmless, if not entirely by the books. If Juan Carlos being “banished” is really an attempt to punish corruption, instead of just being political theatre, that’s exactly what all the upstanding politicians, CEOs, newspaper editors, judges and aristocrats of Spain should want him to do, right? Lay everything on the table and see who’s still standing in the end.
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  #286  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:17 PM
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the optics of this are just not looking good. why pick dominican republic other than to make extradition harder?

in addition, it all comes at a bad time. just when spain managed to overcome the coronavirus crisis, and as the country is deep into an even worse recession than it started the coronavirus crisis with. spain had also just started to forget the situation with inaki's corruption case and the dust settled on that front, only to hear that his father in law was not much better.

next to the SRF's drama, other RF's drama (royals quitting or children out of wedlock surfacing) pales in comparison (potentially with the exception of andrew's case).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I totally believe this, JC did not sign this voluntarily and Felipe had a hard time convincing his father. The government will have pressured Felipe to no end to further distance himself from his father and even though this is a step to take the pressure off the cooker, the topic itself will not go away with JC exiling himself.
it has been left, right and centre across all spanish media today, and the international press i read (BBC, Sky news, FT) so if this was to apease the public and the media, it definitely had the opposite effect. everyone is talking about this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
There is something I do not understand in this whole Juan Carlos kickback/bribery/corruption money. Perhaps someone could explain.

It is established fact that KJC received $100 million from the late king of Saudi Arabia some years ago. (well documented press articles referred to the Ministry of finance in Saudi admitting to the transfer *gift*) It is widely rumoured that this has to do with Spanish consortium obtaining a big contract to do a train link in Saudi Arabia.
In cases like that it is the company who seeks the contract who pays the kickback. So logic would tell us that the Spanish consortium who is after the big contract would “give” a bribe/kick back/$favour -whatever you call it- to the decision maker in Saudi Arabia in exchange for them making the decision in favour of said company.. Not the other way around. I could also imagine the Spanish consortium contractor paying a gratification to KJC so that he could use his contacts, intercede in their favour with his friends the decision makers in Saudi Arabia. But why would the decision maker -Saudi Arabia-who awards the contract give a kickback in this case?
Everything in this case defies logic. Then turn around and transfer a huge chunk of the money to your mistress. Oh boy.... There is a lot we don’t know about this case.
i agree that it is not clear how this worked exactly, but clearly JC feels some sort of guilt over this to have exiled himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Is he trying to avoid prosecution or just trying not to embarrass Felipe?
both? i mean, otherwise why would he pick dominican republic?
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  #287  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:23 PM
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... I did't excuse him .. I just wrote, that I pressume to understand how it came about...


that IS a diffrence ...even if it is modern to see only black and white nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
I think this is hardly an excuse to act like this. I hope the monarchy will survive another major blow...!
I was replaying to that
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  #288  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:34 PM
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I noticed in an unsubstantiated post on social media that Queen Sofia now spends most of her time in London, 'close to her Greek family.'
Does anyone know if there is any truth in this? It seems unlikely, since I think her brother King Constantine spends most of his time in Greece.
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  #289  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
I noticed in an unsubstantiated post on social media that Queen Sofia now spends most of her time in London, 'close to her Greek family.'
Does anyone know if there is any truth in this? It seems unlikely, since I think her brother King Constantine spends most of his time in Greece.
The King lives in Greece now and has sold his London home years ago,insaying that queen Sofia is close to her Greek Family.
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  #290  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Felipe and Sofia have always been quite close. Wouldn't it be relatively simple for him and Letizia and the girls to move into Zarzuela, supporting her?

Seems like it could fix a few things.

There's also the issue of his aunt Irene, if his mother goes anywhere.
Although you mean well it's a terrible idea because the two women, Sofia and Letizia, would clash over how to run the palace.
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  #291  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:43 PM
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In terms of why the Dominican Republic, there was an article in Vanity Fair a couple of years ago that spoke about Juan Carlos being close friends with the Fanjul brothers, who are based in the DR. To be fair, it sounded like they were legitimate long time close friends of the family and that even then Juan Carlos was spending significant chunks of time in the DR as their guest.
This is very premature speculation but I don’t think JC would need to be forced back to Spain. If he tried to avoid extradition that would be the end of the Spanish monarchy. Why would he fall on the sword for the monarchy and his son multiple times and then burn it down at the end?
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  #292  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
He cannot become a fugitive in case there will be prosecution. I doubt there will be but if there is, he will have to come to Spain to face whatever he has to face or Felipe and his granddaughter will suffer. But JC might soon to be too old to face anything anyway.

It is a no win situation really. Suppose that the Constitutional Court rules that, after abdicating, JC didn't lose immunity from prosecution over actions committed while he was King (I am not saying the Court will make such ruling, but it is possible). Then the republicans will attack the monarchy for being above the law. On the other hand, if it is decided that JC doesn't have immunity and he is indicted, it is also bad for the Crown as Cristina's and Iñaki's trials were.



But JC is aging and his health is not so good. So it might not come to a trial after all.
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  #293  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
I understand your opinion, and I partially agree.
I think this was all planned between the government and the royal house.
The prime minister says that he does not know the destination where King Juan Carlos went, but of course that is not true.
In my opinion, the reason why King Juan Carlos left Spain for an unknown destination is just to try to protect JC's privacy.
Juan Carlos, according to the Spanish press, is on the property of some millionaire friends in the Dominican Republic, a place where he will have all the security necessary to live in peace. I believe that JC will now live on the fortune he obviously accumulated during the time he was King of Spain.
I also believe that another reason for choosing the Dominican Republic is also to protect King Juan Carlos at the judicial level, to try to avoid possible detention.
It is said that he may return to Spain in September. It will be?
It's hurricane season. This is a really odd time to be in the West Indies.
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  #294  
Old 08-04-2020, 01:55 PM
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Two strong willed queens at the Zarzuela Palace sounds like a terrible idea.

There were rumours a few years back that Queen Sofia could relocate to the Marivent Palace in Mallorca.
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  #295  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:06 PM
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There have been many occasions in the past that clearly show that Felipe will never take anything away from his mother. Mother is always there, despite being Emerita often taking center stage as Queen smiling with her boy, with the Queen Consort the third wheel. Easter 2018 Letizia lost her usual nerves of steel and had to pay for it.
Anyway, the public loves Sofia so no reason to change anything about her situation.
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  #296  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Two strong willed queens at the Zarzuela Palace sounds like a terrible idea.

There were rumours a few years back that Queen Sofia could relocate to the Marivent Palace in Mallorca.
I think the solution would be for King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia and their daughters to move to zarzuela palace.
Queen Sofia and Princess Irene could move into the house of the pavilion where their son now resides.

By the time he became king, Philip did not want this change so as not to upset his parents who had been accustomed to living there for many years.
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  #297  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

Apparently that same question has been broached in Spain. Are there any plausible theories as for why the Saudi Arabian government would be the institution that paid the alleged kickback?
Perhaps as a "favor" for some other Spanish deal we don't know about, or that was meant to be arranged. JC didn't have the cash or the inclination to go bribing anyone, so there's only one way for the funds to have flowed.
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  #298  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:25 PM
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It seems most of the Spanish public support and like Queen Sofia so any action that could be seen as "kicking her out" may not go down well and just cause more Letizia vs Sofia stories. I genuinely think the King&Queen are happy in their own residence rather than "living above the shop" in the main building. TBH it does sound as if Sofia is not often at home there anyway.

Interesting to see if they will every say where JC is or part of the plan is for him to in effect "disappear" - out of sight out of mind maybe?
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  #299  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:50 PM
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The Spanish PM spoke about the scandal at a live address where he publicly backed the Royal House.

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  #300  
Old 08-04-2020, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Two strong willed queens at the Zarzuela Palace sounds like a terrible idea.

There were rumours a few years back that Queen Sofia could relocate to the Marivent Palace in Mallorca.
The Marivent Palace is the summer home.
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