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  #261  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Yes, I was referring to former (emeritus) monarchs.

King Juan Carlos went from King of Spain to "only" King on abdication, and I believe the same happened to other abdicated monarchs, but all continued to call themselves King or Queen, whether they were in disgrace or not. At times republican governments abolished all titles, but the emeritus monarch was not personally downgraded.




What does "Verde" mean in this context?

It's an acronym for Viva El Rey De España (Long live the King of Spain)
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  #262  
Old 08-04-2020, 05:26 AM
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Aha, Thank you.. for the explanation of VERDE
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  #263  
Old 08-04-2020, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Doesn't the former queen Beatrix of Netherlands go by Princess Beatrix?

A royal decree issued in 2014 allowed Don Juan Carlos and Doña Sofía to retain for life the titles of King and Queen with the style of Majesty.

Going back to the main topic, has there been any reaction in Spain to the fact that Juan Carlos and Sofía have now de facto separated?

I agree with other posters that it would make sense now for Felipe and his family to move to Zarzuela and for Queen Sofía and her sister to live in a smaller house.
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  #264  
Old 08-04-2020, 07:08 AM
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I don’t think Sofia is going to leave the big house . F and L will probably be waiting a long time as I suspect S is going to make it to 100.

Also JC seems to have driven his destination and there seems to be some confusion as to where he is at present - unless he makes some sign that’s he’s still alive in the next few days, I’ve got a feeling that this may be taking an even greater turn for the worse before we know it.
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  #265  
Old 08-04-2020, 07:50 AM
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Abdication does not strip you off your title as the line off succesion lies through your family blood u cannot be again a private citizen for you carry a line of inheritance as even ex american presidents get white house briefing.to abdicate can be due to appauling health it is to retire as you cannot carry on state duties but your right o fsovereignty is preserved though your blood line.
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  #266  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post

I agree with other posters that it would make sense now for Felipe and his family to move to Zarzuela and for Queen Sofía and her sister to live in a smaller house.
To be honest since Zarzuela is a private residence, I see little practical sense in doing that.

Felipe has lived in the smaller prince's house in the estate for quite a while now and the family is probably used to it by now. Similarly, Queen Sofia has lived in the main palace for decades.

The King will probably continue to use the palace as working place and nothing more.

If we were talking about the Royal Palace of Madrid, it would be a different story.
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  #267  
Old 08-04-2020, 08:34 AM
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I read that JC has gone to the Dominican Republic, do we know if this is the case?
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  #268  
Old 08-04-2020, 09:42 AM
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I totally believe this, JC did not sign this voluntarily and Felipe had a hard time convincing his father. The government will have pressured Felipe to no end to further distance himself from his father and even though this is a step to take the pressure off the cooker, the topic itself will not go away with JC exiling himself.
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  #269  
Old 08-04-2020, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
This was a very, very bad move. This "exile" is now receiving more international press attention that even the scandal. This is not going to make it easy for the SRF. I am not even sure it will survive this.
My impression is that the Spanish government and press have known about Juan Carlos and his financial dealings for decades. Various governments gave him a wink and a nod, likely because JC made a lot of money for Spain as well as for himself and because it was a way to keep the official costs related to the royal family low, (“look how little they cost us!”), and also because many of the politicians involved were likely doing similar things themselves.

The Spanish press censored itself and protected JC in the same way it’s now protecting Felipe. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground with the press in Spain - they turned Cristina into a monster and drove her out of the country, as well, despite knowing from the start that there was no evidence that she’d committed a crime. She was linked to a person who committed several crimes in the same way her brother is now linked, through the papers published in the UK, to a person who likely committed several crimes. JC will now be torn to pieces in such a way that his ongoing residence in Spain would be miserable for him and an embarrassing fiasco for the royal family and the government. Felipe, on the other hand, has been declared officially off limits and will continue with business as usual. For now.

As to Sofia’s changing residence - my understanding is that the private part of Zarzuela is currently divided into what are essentially apartments. One for Sofia, one for Irene and I assume one for JC. It would likely require renovations and repairs to make it suitable for a family of four, and these would be paid for with public money. Try selling that to the Spanish taxpayers in the current environment.

To me it would make more sense to have Felipe and Letizia stay where they are permanently and then, with minor renovations, the existing apartments can be used in the future by Leonor until she becomes Queen, assuming that happens, and Sofia until she marries.
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  #270  
Old 08-04-2020, 10:03 AM
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Kickbacks at the root of this case

There is something I do not understand in this whole Juan Carlos kickback/bribery/corruption money. Perhaps someone could explain.

It is established fact that KJC received $100 million from the late king of Saudi Arabia some years ago. (well documented press articles referred to the Ministry of finance in Saudi admitting to the transfer *gift*) It is widely rumoured that this has to do with Spanish consortium obtaining a big contract to do a train link in Saudi Arabia.
In cases like that it is the company who seeks the contract who pays the kickback. So logic would tell us that the Spanish consortium who is after the big contract would “give” a bribe/kick back/$favour -whatever you call it- to the decision maker in Saudi Arabia in exchange for them making the decision in favour of said company.. Not the other way around. I could also imagine the Spanish consortium contractor paying a gratification to KJC so that he could use his contacts, intercede in their favour with his friends the decision makers in Saudi Arabia. But why would the decision maker -Saudi Arabia-who awards the contract give a kickback in this case?
Everything in this case defies logic. Then turn around and transfer a huge chunk of the money to your mistress. Oh boy.... There is a lot we don’t know about this case.
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  #271  
Old 08-04-2020, 10:25 AM
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Is there an English translation of JC‘s letter?? Unfortunately I don‘t speak Spanish.
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  #272  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
My impression is that the Spanish government and press have known about Juan Carlos and his financial dealings for decades. Various governments gave him a wink and a nod, likely because JC made a lot of money for Spain as well as for himself and because it was a way to keep the official costs related to the royal family low, (“look how little they cost us!”), and also because many of the politicians involved were likely doing similar things themselves.

The Spanish press censored itself and protected JC in the same way it’s now protecting Felipe. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground with the press in Spain - they turned Cristina into a monster and drove her out of the country, as well, despite knowing from the start that there was no evidence that she’d committed a crime. She was linked to a person who committed several crimes in the same way her brother is now linked, through the papers published in the UK, to a person who likely committed several crimes. JC will now be torn to pieces in such a way that his ongoing residence in Spain would be miserable for him and an embarrassing fiasco for the royal family and the government. Felipe, on the other hand, has been declared officially off limits and will continue with business as usual. For now.

As to Sofia’s changing residence - my understanding is that the private part of Zarzuela is currently divided into what are essentially apartments. One for Sofia, one for Irene and I assume one for JC. It would likely require renovations and repairs to make it suitable for a family of four, and these would be paid for with public money. Try selling that to the Spanish taxpayers in the current environment.

To me it would make more sense to have Felipe and Letizia stay where they are permanently and then, with minor renovations, the existing apartments can be used in the future by Leonor until she becomes Queen, assuming that happens, and Sofia until she marries.

Agree with this 100%


It would have become untenable to have JC live in a state owned property in Spain, so it's better to move abroad. But as Blog Real already stated, there are lots of questions now surrounding JC that will both the RF and the government a headache.

JC once said in an interview that in Spain you have to show the public every day that you are worth of being King, otherwise they will kick you out. This proved true again and let's add the government to it.

When it suits them or the climate is right, they will drop Felipe or Leonor or even her heir like a hot potato. The events around JC show again that nothing is save and the protection of those who matter is fickle.
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  #273  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Agree with this 100%


It would have become untenable to have JC live in a state owned property in Spain, so it's better to move abroad. But as Blog Real already stated, there are lots of questions now surrounding JC that will both the RF and the government a headache.

JC once said in an interview that in Spain you have to show the public every day that you are worth of being King, otherwise they will kick you out. This proved true again and let's add the government to it.

When it suits them or the climate is right, they will drop Felipe or Leonor or even her heir like a hot potato. The events around JC show again that nothing is save and the protection of those who matter is fickle.
Is he trying to avoid prosecution or just trying not to embarrass Felipe?
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  #274  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Juan Carlos is trying to protect Felipe and the monarchy.
but he coudl do that by moving somewehre within Europe. Why go to the Dom Republic?
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  #275  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blog Real View Post
Juan Carlos is trying to protect Felipe and the monarchy.
Then why be unclear about his destination, a place that's so hard to be extradited from?

He's acting like a fugitive and only the major worldwide crises are going to keep him from embarrassing Felipe and the monarchy any further.
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  #276  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Then why be unclear about his destination, a place that's so hard to be extradited from?

He's acting like a fugitive and only the major worldwide crises are going to keep him from embarrassing Felipe and the monarchy any further.
True in the present climate, its a long way to go -and technically an unnecessary journey
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  #277  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Legally, I guess that works, but Portugal doesn't seem like quite far enough. It's a smaller world than when the Duke of Windsor went to France.

This whole thing is so ignominious.
Still seems to be holding true less than 24 hours later.
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  #278  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:31 AM
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I understand your opinion, and I partially agree.
I think this was all planned between the government and the royal house.
The prime minister says that he does not know the destination where King Juan Carlos went, but of course that is not true.
In my opinion, the reason why King Juan Carlos left Spain for an unknown destination is just to try to protect JC's privacy.
Juan Carlos, according to the Spanish press, is on the property of some millionaire friends in the Dominican Republic, a place where he will have all the security necessary to live in peace. I believe that JC will now live on the fortune he obviously accumulated during the time he was King of Spain.
I also believe that another reason for choosing the Dominican Republic is also to protect King Juan Carlos at the judicial level, to try to avoid possible detention.
It is said that he may return to Spain in September. It will be?
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  #279  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:39 AM
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If Andrew did this, people would be calling for blood.

Imagine the way JC remaining in Spain would look even worse, for Felipe and the government to have agreed to this...

Everyone must be hoping things will blow over to an extent, but not a very pretty picture.
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  #280  
Old 08-04-2020, 11:39 AM
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The story is all over the world,the damage this has and will do to the Spanish Monarchy and it will be left to king Felipe VI to once again clean sweep his battered royal house.





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