King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia's Marriage

[WreathOfLaurels]

Would like to add that Affiars aren't always sexual - emotional ones can do just as much harm as they are still a betrayal of trust. Also that the old bugbear of the midlife crisis on JCs partwas also a likely culprit, at least at the beginning - later it was just simply immature playboyism encouraged by his cronies, and enabled by a complacent press (he would have not survived 5 min in the UK).

[Duke of Marmalade]

If it was a love match, I always had the impression that if so, it was from Sofia's end. Franco wanted an A class royal bride for JC and Queen Frederica was keen to make her daughter a Queen of whatever country. So from that perspective, it was a perfect match. But IMO this is the perspective especially JC stuck to and he expected from Sofia to function and deal with the difficult situation in Spain.
They continued to have children until they got the required boy, Felipe, and IMO it went downhill from there. It always takes 2 to tango, I guess having Irene of Greece and Frederica around until her death, and not to mention the greek family, Constantin etc, probably wasn't easy for JC. Sofia is no victim for me, she is from a generation where a marriage like hers was normal and maybe only people on forums think that she is unhappy. Sofia has a life where she can do what she wants, that is the price that JC had to pay to keep her walking the line.

[AnaC]

Franco wasn't happy with Juan Carlos's choice. He hated that she wasn't catholic didn't care that she was a royal. The Count of Barcelona and Ena would have allowed nothing else than a royal, someone from a reigning family was the cherry on top. He couldn't have married a non-royal and he knew it. Franco didn't know he was even courting Sofia until the announcement and he was very unhappy at being sidelined and ignored.

[LadyRohan]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

Sofia is no victim for me, she is from a generation where a marriage like hers was normal and maybe only people on forums think that she is unhappy. Sofia has a life where she can do what she wants, that is the price that JC had to pay to keep her walking the line.

I think this is the very essence of it. A bystander could probably see it as one thing, but for the ones in the actual marriage, this is what they chose and they're from a time and background where this choice was the norm, and not something to complain about, as long as they treated each other well and had discreet understandings one way or another. I think instead of pitying someone who is probably settled and content in their own way, we can be glad that royal families today allow for proper love marriages, whether the person a royal marries is a commoner, noble or royal. It surely is better in the long run, for the health of the relationship, but also for the happiness of those on top of a societal construct, that love is allowed to be the major factor when choosing a life partner.

[WreathOfLaurels]

They did try to make the marriage work for a good ten to fifteen years (from 1962 when they wed to the late 1970s) which is the length of an average marriage these days. It was just changed circumstances (the temptations and pressures of being King and queen) and the fact that they both changed as people over that period of time. I'd be very doubtful of stories about arranged marriages and Grand Guignol despair as the breakdown of the marriage strikes me as being pretty mundane at its heart, but no less painful because of it.

Franco was livid when he found out and knew nothing so he can't be blamed for this. Such expectations of what was a suitable partner within Royal circles was common at the time and had no sinister overtones back then. If the stories about Sofia and Harald are correct (and I suspect that there is at least a grain of truth in them) and JCs earlier relationship with MG (and how it ended) are taken into account, than its fair to at least suggest that both rushed into marriage while on the rebound from other people? A case of Marry in haste, repent at leisure?

[WreathOfLaurels]

Originally Posted by AnaC

Franco wasn't happy with Juan Carlos's choice. He hated that she wasn't catholic didn't care that she was a royal. The Count of Barcelona and Ena would have allowed nothing else than a royal, someone from a reigning family was the cherry on top. He couldn't have married a non-royal and he knew it. Franco didn't know he was even courting Sofia until the announcement and he was very unhappy at being sidelined and ignored.

Agreed Franco would have preferred somone like queen fabiola of Belgium as a wife for JC.

On a more interesting note - would MG have wanted to marry JC if that had been an option? Probably not - she seemed to like her freedom and was/is cynical on the whole topic of royalty

[WreathOfLaurels]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

If it was a love match, I always had the impression that if so, it was from Sofia's end. Franco wanted an A class royal bride for JC and Queen Frederica was keen to make her daughter a Queen of whatever country. So from that perspective, it was a perfect match. But IMO this is the perspective especially JC stuck to and he expected from Sofia to function and deal with the difficult situation in Spain.
They continued to have children until they got the required boy, Felipe, and IMO it went downhill from there. It always takes 2 to tango, I guess having Irene of Greece and Frederica around until her death, and not to mention the greek family, Constantin etc, probably wasn't easy for JC. Sofia is no victim for me, she is from a generation where a marriage like hers was normal and maybe only people on forums think that she is unhappy. Sofia has a life where she can do what she wants, that is the price that JC had to pay to keep her walking the line.

Frederica only moved to Spain permanently after the marriage began to falter to support Sofia. Constantine and Anne Marie only came to Spain for a few weeks per year as they were busy and travelled a lot and probably spent more time in Denmark During the 1970 with Queen Ingrid. JC's parents has permanently returned to Spain at that time and his sisters had been living there as well so it was not like the man was outnumbered on the relative front. Irene was also busy with her own occupations as well.

[WreathOfLaurels]

Ο πολ�τιμος �όλος της βασίλισσας Σοφίας στο πλευ�ό του συζ�γου της ‹ The Royal Chronicles

A Greek perspective on JC and S's Marriage

[Kronprinz]

How is it going for these two? Have they seen each other in the past 6 months?

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Kronprinz

How is it going for these two? Have they seen each other in the past 6 months?

They attended an event last month together,see current events thread King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia.

[camelot23ca]

Sofia and Juan Carlos seem to have reached an understanding that works for both of them. To me it resembles a reasonably amicable divorce.

Neither of them do many public engagements anymore either separately or together. When they are together in public they seem both seem quite comfortable.

I imagine they also come together for completely private family events which we'll never know about.

[Kronprinz]

Well, Juan Carlos might as well start doing engagements with his mistress...it's not like nobody knows about it.

Have Felipe, Elena and Cristina met their stepmother?

[COUNTESS]

It was never a love match, though they tried. Sofia thought she was going to marry then Crown Prince Harald of Norway. He was never marrying anyone but his beloved Sonja. He held out 9 years for that to happen. He refused the offer of Sofia for his bride. She seemed to know her place was to marry someone who would be king. Frederica was adamant about that. I think they were happy for a time.

[WreathOfLaurels]

I’m interested about the impact the rumours and gossip have had on Juan Carlos’s public image as a man and as a king, both positive and negative. Although there doubtless has been exaggeration and distortion regarding what’s been happening, its hard to deny that these stories have had an impact on his image.

I’ve been meaning to set this thread for a while, actually. Since we really don’t know for certain what’s been happening this thread isn’t about listing JC’s sexual partners and encounters, JC and Sofia’s marriage is covered elsewhere on a different thread along with the paternity claims against him.

I would argue that in the beginning when JC was at the peak of his popularity and prestige in the late 80s early 90s it wasn’t a problem and in fact in the eyes of some (but not me) added a pleasing aura of virility to his image - compare and contrast to the pillory and ridicule that was being heaped on the Prince of Wales in the same time period.

However, I would argue that it has become a negative in the long run for four reasons:

1) changing attidies to women and relationships in Spanish culture - Spain seems to be having something of a “#MeToo” thing at the moment, and what on the surface looks like an attempt to revive droit du seigneur doesn’t mesh with that. JC often said he wanted to be “King of all Spaniards” - he seems to overlook the fact that women are Spaniards as well.

2) the fact that JC himself cultivated a “clean hands” image as part of being king and that Sofia was a major part of his public image as well - again the old hypocrisy thing rearing its head again.

3) it makes him look, rightly or wrongly, like his lecherous narcissistic grandfather Alfonso XIII. The rift between Alfonso and Ena, and the court factionalism that accompanied it, was another big factor in the collapse of the Spanish monarchy in the 1930s along with allegations of emblezzlement and political meddling. As I've said before, JC should have known better.

4) it has left him politically exposed - given all the secrecy and cover up attempts this has made him an easy target for blackmail and extortion attempts. What was to stop some hostile foreign government from using a honey trap against him for whatever reason? It’s also left him open to ridicule.

Someone else also metioned on another thread that despite how distasteful it looks its still private buisness and the norm for men of his background and time period - I’d argue no, since Spain’s media and govermement colluded in covering all this up for years (suppressing reports, paying out hush money, etc...) and that if you put a mistress on the official payroll as your EA, i.e. giving her public money, than its public buisness as thats a conflict of interest and calls your professional judgment and probity into question, to name but one example. All this has made him look, correctly or otherwise, selfish, irresponsible and reckless, and calls a lot of his track record as king and head of state into doubt.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels

[...]I’d argue no, since Spain’s media and govermement colluded in covering all this up for years (suppressing reports, paying out hush money, etc...) and that if you put a mistress on the official payroll as your EA, i.e. giving her public money, than its public buisness as thats a conflict of interest and calls your professional judgment and probity into question, to name but one example.[...]

As someone who knows little about the government's role in the reign of King Juan Carlos, could you or anyone please shed more light on the actions of the government and the media? I would like to read an article regarding this topic if such an article is available.

[Moran]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Yes Queen Sofia is a pretty remarkable lady and little wonder she's Spain's favourite royal.

I remember wondering at the time if her decision not to leave with her husband wasn't due to the fact that she seemed to be rather active and indeed, needed but since we have no way of knowing, I didn't give it this much thought. But she's pretty remarkable indeed.

[capri]

Originally Posted by Moran

I remember wondering at the time if her decision not to leave with her husband wasn't due to the fact that she seemed to be rather active and indeed, needed but since we have no way of knowing, I didn't give it this much thought. But she's pretty remarkable indeed.

She does it her way!

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Moran

I remember wondering at the time if her decision not to leave with her husband wasn't due to the fact that she seemed to be rather active and indeed, needed but since we have no way of knowing, I didn't give it this much thought. But she's pretty remarkable indeed.

Given that they have only been married on paper for several decades and lived practically separate lives although sharing a residence (if they both happened to be in Madrid at the same time). I don't think anyone would have expected her to join her husband in his exile.

[Moran]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Given that they have only been married on paper for several decades and lived practically separate lives although sharing a residence (if they both happened to be in Madrid at the same time). I don't think anyone would have expected her to join her husband in his exile.

Oh I didn't mean that anyone expected of her to leave to be with him. But at her age, I expected that she'd be glad to be away from active duties, even if that meant to leave with him... for a while. I expected they'd leave together and then separate discreetly. But then I remembered a book on Juan Carlos I read some 20 years ago, about his statement on what constituted the RF and thought, well, maybe not.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Moran

Oh I didn't mean that anyone expected of her to leave to be with him. But at her age, I expected that she'd be glad to be away from active duties, even if that meant to leave with him... for a while. I expected they'd leave together and then separate discreetly. But then I remembered a book on Juan Carlos I read some 20 years ago, about his statement on what constituted the RF and thought, well, maybe not.

Queen Sofia would never go with King Juan Carlos because she feels good in Spain, at the Zarzuela Palace.
Queen Sofia and King Juan Carlos have been living separate lives for more than 40 years, only crossing each other at family events and official acts. They lived in separate wings from the palace.
Queen Sofia shares a wing of the Zarzuela Palace with her sister, Princess Irene who has always been her great support and confidant.
Despite making separate lives, King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia will never divorce, I think that was never a chance for them.