King Juan Carlos & Queen Sofia Visit Ceuta and Melilla: November 5-6, 2007

[lula]

ABC.es: nacional - nacional - Los Reyes inician el lunes un histórico viaje a Ceuta y Melilla, el primero de su Reinado

The Kings initiate on Monday historically trip to Ceuta and Melilla, the first one of their Reign

Their Majesties the Kings will visit next week, for the first time in more than thirty years of Reign, the Autonomous Cities of Ceuta and Melilla, as reported official sources. These are both only Spanish cities that Don Juan Carlos and Dona Sofía have not visited as Kings because there have been born in mind the possible repercussions that might have these trips in the bilateral relations with Morocco.

Nevertheless, the King always has demonstrated his desire to travel to Ceuta and Melilla and has showed a great interest for these territories. Also the presidents of these Autonomous Cities, Juan Jesus Vivas and Juan Jose Imbroda, respectively, have asked for the last one Don Juan Carlos in several occasions - last October 12 - that visit the cities.
...

[lula]

La prensa de Ceuta y Melilla destaca el carácter histórico de la visita real

The press of Ceuta and Melilla emphasizes the historical character of the royal visit

The newspapers of Ceuta and of Melilla emphasize today with wide information in front pages the news of the trip that the Kings of Spain will realize next week to both autonomous cities, which almost all the diaries qualify of 'historical' visit.
...

El Gobierno de Ceuta cree que 'el Rey ha cumplido con su palabra'

The Government of Ceuta believes that ' the King has expired with his word '

The speaker of the Government of Ceuta, Yolanda Bel (PP), thinks that ' the King has expired with his word ', after there know the advertisement of the trip of the monarches the next week to Ceuta and Melilla.

According to Yolanda Bel, ' the visit will serve in order that the Government of the City and, for extension, the whole citizenship, present his respects to the monarch '.
...

Imbroda: Visita de los Reyes era una vieja aspiración que ahora se cumple

Imbroda: Visit of the Kings was an old aspiration that now is fulfilled

The president of Melilla, Juan Jose Imbroda, he has demonstrated today that the visit that the Kings will realize next week to Ceuta and Melilla was a ' old aspiration ' of the citizens and of the own monarch who now meets fulfilled.

In declarations, the chief of the autonomous Executive has assured EFE that the confirmation of the trip has produced to him a ' great satisfaction ',
provided that so much he as Don Juan Carlos they have spoken in more than one occasion of the desire of the citizens and of the Government melillense that was producing this trip.
...

El PSOE de Melilla dice que la visita de los Reyes 'es un hito histórico' para la sociedad melillense

The PSOE of Melilla says that the visit of the Kings ' is a historical milestone ' for the society melillense

The secretary general of the Socialist party of Melilla (PSME), Dionisio Muñoz, showed today the ' absolute satisfaction ' of the Socialists melillenses for the visit of the Kings of Spain to Melilla foreseen for the next Tuesday. ' It is a question of a historical milestone for the city and all the melillenses ', was indicated by he.

Muñoz emphasized the importance of the figure of the monarch who ' is wanted by all the citizens of Melilla without distinction ' and that, in words of the socialist leader, ' represents all the Spanish '.
...

UDCE destaca 'apuesta decidida de Gobierno y Casa Real' por Ceuta y Melilla

UDCE emphasizes ' bet decided about Government and Royal House ' on Ceuta and Melilla

The president of the Democratic Union Ceutí-IU, Mohamed Alí, has valued the visit that the Kings will realize on Monday to Ceuta and has emphasized ' the bet decided about the central Government and the Royal Household ' on this autonomous city and on Melilla.
...

Gobierno marroquí rechaza la visita de los Reyes a Ceuta y Melilla

Moroccan government rejects the visit of the Kings to Ceuta and Melilla

The Government of Morocco ' it laments and rejects ' the official visit that the Kings of Spain will do next week to Ceuta and Melilla, which Rabat considers ' cities pillaged ', as said today the speaker of the Moroccan Executive, at that there presides the nationalist Abás The Fassi.
...

[lula]

Ceuta y Melilla obsequiarán a los Reyes con las Llaves de Oro de ambas ciudades- Lavanguardia.es - Noticias, actualidad, última hora en Cataluña y España

Ceuta and Melilla will give the Kings with the Golden Keys of both cities

Ceuta and Melilla will give to Their Majesties the King and Queen Juan Carlos I and Queen Sofía with golden keys of both cities on the occasion of the visit scheduled for next Monday and Tuesday, IN which will come accompanied by the Minister of Public Administration, Elena Salgado, according to official sources reported.
...

Una visita pertinente · ELPAÍS.com

A pertinent visit

Nothing would have of extraordinarily a trip of the Kings to Ceuta and Melilla if it was not for the fact that don Juan Carlos has visited both 32 years in the headquarters of the State ever. It is this bulky chronological anomaly the one that turns in exceptionally a visit wished by the King and the one that, for the rest, should be so routine as the one that the monarches turn to any other Spanish city.

It is necessary to greet therefore a decision of the Executive that it comes to install, though it is with so monumental delay, an observation of normality in the a bit embarrassing way with which the power of the State come relating to both autonomous cities claimed by Morocco.
...

http://www.eltelegrama.com/noticia.asp?ref=47174

The incalculable value of the Royal visit

Beyond the incalculable political and historical value the visit that they will realize to Melilla and Ceuta the Kings represents the remuneration to the longing expressed for years by the inhabitants of both Spanish cities. The Kings, this way, will give fulfillment to this desire of a visit that had never taken place, and that in case of Melilla and Ceuta supposed a countersignature to its unquestionable españolidad.
...

Spanish royal enclave trip irks Morocco
Spanish royal enclave trip irks Morocco - Yahoo! News

Spain confirms controversial royal visit to Ceuta, Melilla
Spain confirms controversial royal visit to Ceuta, Melilla - Yahoo! News

[monica]

This visit will undoubtedly be an interesting and important visit.

[Regina]

This is going to be a polemic trip. Let's see how the people of Ceuta and Melilla will react to the visit of the Kings.

[lula]

Originally Posted by Regina

This is going to be a polemic trip. Let's see how the people of Ceuta and Melilla will react to the visit of the Kings.

The citizens of Ceuta and Melilla are very happy, their leaders go claiming this visit for many years. When a few months ago the President Zapatero travelled was very well received. In addition, the visit has managed something that seemed almost impossibly, to put in agreement to all the political Spanish groups. The polemic only exists for Morocco.

[marenostrum]

I think it is wonderful to undertake this trip, long-awaited and desired by ceutíes and melillenses.For end!

[shrifia]

Originally Posted by lula;688174.

The polemic only exists for Morocco.

well as it's about two occupited moroccan cities I can understan why there is polemic in morocco

[lula]

Originally Posted by shrifia

well as it's about two occupited moroccan cities I can understan why there is polemic in morocco

I believe that this not a place to speak about politics, but I must clarify something.

Ceuta and Melilla are not two Moroccan occupied cities. They are two cities of the north of Africa that form a part of the Spanish State for centuries, and they have never belonged to the current Moroccan State. This way the international community and the United Nations understand it, because Ceuta and Melilla are territories of the Spanish State and are not considered to be colonies.
The United Nations and Decolonization
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decoloni...n_brochure.pdf

[shrifia]

Originally Posted by lula

I believe that this not a place to speak about politics, but I must clarify something.

Ceuta and Melilla are not two Moroccan occupied cities. They are two cities of the territories of the Spanish State that form a part of the Spanish State for centuries, and they have never belonged to the current Moroccan State. This way the international community and the United Nations understand it, because Ceuta and Melilla are territories of the Spanish State and are not considered to be colonies.
The United Nations and Decolonization
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpi/decoloni...n_brochure.pdf

me too i believe that it's not place to speak about it but let me clarify something too and end this becouse it's off topic.
if Ceuta and Melilla are not moroccans why most of ppl there speak arabic and Specificaly the moroccan arabic!!!!!!why they Behaves like moroccans(food,religion,Clothes,Customs and traditions ....)!!!!!
and how they are territories of the Spanish State as they are in north of Africa ???they take ride from spain to morocco
please don't do like the journalist from el mondu who needs some lessons in history becouse we know very well that this two cities are moroccan and because of their Strategic Site they were occupied sometime by the Spaniards and by Portugal too like other moroccan cities(al araych,aljadida,safi....).
I am not Against this visit but I am Against Falsification Of history United Nations has came after this occupation many years after so it's normal she Avows this situation.

[lula]

Without commentaries, it is not worth it.There are countries that occupy several continents, and any territory that is frontier with other one shares with this one many cultural aspects. To Spain many Moroccan immigrants come in search of a better life, logician that they come also to Ceuta and Melilla that is the most nearby Spanish territory... Like many Moroccans enter Ceuta and Melilla to obtain the products that cannot obtain in their country (and to do smuggling).

Ceuta se paralizará para dar un recibimiento masivo a los Reyes

Ceuta will be paralyzed to give a massive reception to the Kings

Next Monday will not be only a historical day in Ceuta, also it will be almost festive. The colleges will close and the great majority of trades and small enterprises have foreseen to close its doors to give the welcome to Their Majesties Don Juan Carlos and Dona Sofía in their first visit to the autonomous city in 32 years of reign. Everything is ready for a massive reception that, predictably, will turn into the major human concentration through that Ceuta has lived.
...

La Comisión Islámica y la Comunidad Judía de Melilla dan la 'bienvenida' a los Reyes ante su visita el martes

The Islamic Commission and the Jewish Community of Melilla give the 'welcome' to the Kings before visit on Tuesday

The Islamic Commission of Melilla gave today the 'welcome' to Their Majesties the Kings of Spain in their announced visit on Tuesday because, ' as Spanish, we congratulate ourselves of this historical visit ' said speaker, Abderramán Benyahya. In declarations to Europa Press, Benyahya emphasized that ' beside being a historical visit, also it is a link of union of all the ideologies and cultures, for which we wait redound to the living together to which we inhale all melillenses '.
...

La visita desata la fiebre patriótica en Ceuta y Melilla · ELPAÍS.com

The visit unties the patriotic fever in Ceuta and Melilla

Already nothing stays. Neither flags of Spain, nor fabric to do them. Neither vests, nor bracelets, nor some object on which the national colors had been impressed at some time. The visit of the Kings to Ceuta and Melilla has untied the patriotic euphoria in both autonomous cities.
...

Photos
http://actualidad.terra.es/addon/img...4c9698ba6g.jpg
http://actualidad.terra.es/addon/img...4c96262b3g.jpg
http://actualidad.terra.es/addon/img...4c97b7c0bg.jpg
http://actualidad.terra.es/addon/img...4c9307ba2g.jpg
http://actualidad.terra.es/addon/img...4c94f2975g.jpg

[shrifia]

shares with this one many cultural aspects.
with all respect that I have for every membersof this forum I will not comment.but I will said it again I am not against this visit and I hope the king found a big and warm welcome there.becouse it doesn't mean at all they are not occupied .

[Regina]

Originally Posted by shrifia

please don't do like the journalist from el mondu who needs some lessons in history becouse we know very well that this two cities are moroccan and because of their Strategic Site they were occupied sometime by the Spaniards and by Portugal too like other moroccan cities(al araych,aljadida,safi....).

Ceuta is still related with Portugal. The flag and coat of arms of Ceuta remained unchanged and to this day still feature the colonial configuration of the Portuguese shield. The flag's background is also the same as that of the flag of Lisbon, the Portuguese capital.

This is their first visit to both cities in 30 years as Kings. 30 years is a long time! Why did they take such long time to visit these Cities? Is there any known reason? Thanks.

[lula]

Originally Posted by Regina

This is their first visit to both cities in 30 years as Kings. 30 years is a long time! Why did they take such long time to visit these Cities? Is there any known reason? Thanks.

The trips of the Kings are done by the approval of the Government, from Adolfo Suárez (the first President) up to Zapatero no President visited Ceuta and Melilla. Precisely because accustomed to the reactions of Morocco they did not want to have any more problems, something a bit absurd because problems there are always and if non, they look for them.

Immigration, drugs, terrorism (many of the terrorists of 11M were Moroccan), the Sahara, the agreements of fishing ... they are constant problems. Every Spanish government faces them of a way but the final result is the same. The relations of the Government of Aznar with Morocco were bad and finished for being terrible. Those of the Government of Zapatero were good and we will see like they finish. Zapatero has supported enough Morocco in topics as the immigration and the terrorism, as well as in its negotiations with the European Union ... and has supported a very soft position in the topic of the Sahara ... nevertheless ultimately the reactions of Morocco have been the same.

[shrifia]

Originally Posted by Regina

Ceuta is still related with Portugal. The flag and coat of arms of Ceuta remained unchanged and to this day still feature the colonial configuration of the Portuguese shield. The flag's background is also the same as that of the flag of Lisbon, the Portuguese capital.

thanx alot for the informations this is why I am talkink about colonial history in this region.

Originally Posted by lula

many of the terrorists of 11M were Moroccan

do you mean that moroccans are terrorists
to you're information lula all that problems you Mentioned:drugs,Immigration,terrorism ....morocco Suffers from too and alot of gang of drugs and immigration...have Spaniards members too beside the moroccans.
Accused Morocco with the Spanish problems is not The solution for this problems Especially when morocco Suffers drom it too like I said before.
about immigration issue you know what the african call morocco:THE POLICMAN OF SPAIN for all his Efforts to Fight the migration.

[fanprincipesasturi]

Originally Posted by Regina

This is going to be a polemic trip. Let's see how the people of Ceuta and Melilla will react to the visit of the Kings.

ceuta and melilla are Spanish cities like Madrid, Seville or Barcelona... melilla is Spain from the time of reconquers it and ceuta gained to the Portuguese a century later...
for the UN only they are left some zones to decolonize and all those zones are of the British empire: hong kong (Chinese)
malvinas island (Argentine)
Gibraltar (Spanish)
Spain gave back all its colonies to whom it belonged by battles (America and the Philippines) or by decolonization (Guinean).
the others are trivialities

ceuta y melilla son ciudades españolas como madrid,sevilla o barcelona...melilla es españa desde la época de la reconquista y ceuta se ganó a los portugueses un siglo más tarde...
para la onu sólo quedan algunas zonas por descolonizar y todas esas zonas son del imperio británico:
hong kong (china)
islas malvinas( argentina)
gibraltar (español)
españa devolvió todas sus colonias a quién pertenecía por batallas (américa y filipinas) o por descolonización (guinea).

lo demás son tonterías

[lula]

You have to learn to read.

Never I have said that the Moroccans were terrorist, have said that many of the terrorist of 11M were Moroccans ... that are different things. Spain suffers the Basque terrorism, and is a serious problem for the Basque Country and for Spain, but no Spanish thinks that all the Basques are terrorist.
Later I have said that this are the motives of clash, these problems concern to both countries, and precisely because of it Spain inverts in supporting Morocco, like collaborates with other countries of Africa.

[shrifia]

Originally Posted by lula

You have to learn to read.

Never I have said that the Moroccans were terrorist, have said that many of the terrorist of 11M were Moroccans ... that are different things. Spain suffers the Basque terrorism, and is a serious problem for the Basque Country and for Spain, but no Spanish thinks that all the Basques are terrorist.
Later I have said that this are the motives of clash, these problems concern to both countries, and precisely because of it Spain inverts in supporting Morocco, like collaborates with other countries of Africa.

OH!! really sorry if I didn't understand well
but you Mention the(many of the terrorist of 11M were Moroccans) like you think in it.....becouse when someone is Accused it doesn't mean at all that all his nation is!!!!like you said about Basques and some who think that all arab and muslims are terrorist.

[fanprincipesasturi]

Faro - Los políticos responden a las críticas aludiendo a la españolidad de Ceuta
in the history of Ceuta "we have not belonged to the neighboring country and in addition those were the citizens of Ceuta that decided to belong to Corona of Castile. In order to base these words number two of the Local Executive not only talks about the history, if not that also makes reference to legal reasons to discredit the words against the real visit which they come as much from the Moroccan side, on the part of the Government as of some mass media.



answer of a Spanish Muslim to Morocco: Hello I am musulman of 35 years, but with nationality Spanish and for my is honor being Spanish for that reason much cheers me visit of kings to both cities, secondly not I understand mess of, Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla never Morocco have be of and never it they will be,no I understand with great that is his country still want 40 square meters more, if great majority of his habitants want to go of here is by something, which they are dedicated to create job and to urbanize in conditions its country and that forgets us, and to those Spanish Muslims who in minority say that Ceuta and I SAY: BECAUSE OS YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIVE THERE, sight that easy, that is only a small minority. I consider Spanish and mackerel (caballa) , and will defend the Spanishness of my earth finds where it is necessary.

La dominacion portuguesa

[Regina]

Thank you lula, shrifia and fanprincipesasturi for your posts. I think they can help us (outsiders) to understand a bit better the reactions (good or bad) this royal visit can bring.