King Juan Carlos - Fiscal Investigations, Inheritance and Exile : 2018-2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Haven't been able to read the whole story yet but it's a bit confusing so far (although it did make the Dutch news stating that the inheritance won't be accepted and that Felipe now completely separates himself from his father just like he did with his sister).
 
Somebody said:
Haven't been able to read the whole story yet but it's a bit confusing so far (although it did make the Dutch news stating that the inheritance won't be accepted and that Felipe now completely separates himself from his father just like he did with his sister).
Click to expand...




Is Queen Sofía still receiving an allowance? If so, she risks being seen as a proxy for JC.


Unlike Cristina, JC and Sofía are still legally members of the official Royal Family under the royal decree 2917/1981. Furthermore, they are entitled to the honorific title of King and Queen with the style of Majesty under the royal decree 470/2014.



So, unless King Felipe has amended the aforementioned RDs, I disagree that his parents have been completely separated from the Royal House.


PS: For a comprehensive list of Spanish legislation regarding titles and membership of the Royal Family, civil and military orders and other royal decorations, and concession of and succession to titles of nobility, I recommend the following site:


https://www.boe.es/legislacion/codigos/codigo.php?id=116&modo=1&nota=0&tab=2
 
Last edited:
Mbruno said:
Didn’t. the Spanish parliament stop the investigation on the grounds that JC had immunity under Art 65 of the constitution?

Felipe is basically throwing his father under the bus, while pretending that he didn’t know he was the beneficiary of the offshore funds, which I find highly unlikely. It doesn’t look good to me.
Click to expand...

Yes, I find it interesting that everyone is so willing to give Felipe the benefit of the doubt based on nothing more than his word, (and the word of his father).

. My understanding is Felipe alone would be the beneficiary of the fund.. this in response to one poster referring to the money being left to his children - nice way to attempt to spread the mess around, though! He was instructed to use it at his discretion to support his mother, sisters and their children - to provide maintenance and grant them “reasonable” requests, but the responsibility of how the fund would be administered would be all his.

It would be pretty, um, let’s be generous and say unusual, for someone to entrust their heir with that level of wealth and responsibility without saying a word to said heir. Especially since the SRF is supposed to be relatively poor and this would be a significant change in their financial fortunes. J.C. didn’t mention it when the fund was set up? He didn’t mention it to clarify what Felipe’s responsibilities would be towards his sister and her children once it became apparent Felipe and Cristina were estranged? He still thought the fact that the fund had existed wasn’t worth mentioning when Felipe became the Spanish Head of State?

To me all Felipe’s declaration means is that he and his father are 100 percent sure they are the only two people who knew Felipe was aware of this inheritance. Anything more than that requires that we suspend disbelief and take them at their word.
 
Juan Carlos made his own life, I do not think he asked anyone for permission or explained what he did or did not do. If he had had to explain what he was doing, many would have stopped him.

What's more, Juan Carlos has a certain reputation for being miser (and especially with his son, it seems that he has helped his daughters more), and from what we discover, he was much more splendid with his friends than with his family. He is also quite old-fashioned, so he left the bargain to Felipe to help the women of the family, instead of giving each one a part.

Let's say he followed a "family tradition", his father and grandfather had an account with similar characteristics to help the family. In these foundations, the beneficiaries only have powers upon the death of the owner, and it is possible that not only did Felipe appear, but in case something happened to him, he would have appointed other substitutes.

In any case, the foundation closed in 2012 and all the money ended up in a Corinna account ... I don't think he asked her son for permission either.:whistling:
 
Personally , based on my own reading of HM King Felipe , he is much more his mother's son than his father's . I have no doubt that he has a lot of respect for his father's political achievement's , whilst deploring his private action's .
 
Interesting news and a good move IMO by Felipe. He seems to be more organised in running Casa Real so far.
 
This is normal that investment funds, life insurance, foundations ... require as a legal requirement, in Spain or Switzerland, that their owners establish the name of the person who would be beneficiary, in case the owner dies. The beneficiary does not have why know it. In Spain, there is a registry of wills and beneficiaries of all types of financiers packages, life insurance, pension plans, even bank accounts that require the owner to name a beneficiary in the contract.
This register of wills and beneficiaries have purpose notify to the beneficiaries after the death of the person who appointed them, as such, of the existence of those amounts in their favor
This foundation only establishes that King Felipe is a beneficiary, nothing else is specified in it.

King Felipe did not know about this data, last year the Corinna's lawyers (who were not looking for anything good) sent a letter to King Felipe saying that his father had named him beneficiary of this Foundation. King Felipe knew nothing, and would not have known until his father had passed away, if the lawyers of this lady who is being investigated by a prosecutor, they sent that letter to the king.

The King Felipe from the moment he had knowledge of that information, and fearing what this lady is trying to do to defend against the accusations that fall on her,Felipe went to a notary, and declared, that he had no knowledge of it, delivering the letter sent to him by these lawyers The document of a notary is in Spain a judicial proof, the King accompanied it of the letter from this lady's lawyers, which shows that King Felipe was informed by this letter of this information.

King Philip has acted correctly. His father's problems are his father's,, Corinna is trying to find excuses to get rid of the judicial investigations opened about her in London and Switzerland.
 
Last edited:
:previous:
Do you think this issue will harm the monarchy?

This is all very unfair to King Felipe VI, who has done a good job as King.
 
lula said:
Juan Carlos made his own life, I do not think he asked anyone for permission or explained what he did or did not do. If he had had to explain what he was doing, many would have stopped him.

What's more, Juan Carlos has a certain reputation for being miser (and especially with his son, it seems that he has helped his daughters more), and from what we discover, he was much more splendid with his friends than with his family. He is also quite old-fashioned, so he left the bargain to Felipe to help the women of the family, instead of giving each one a part.

Let's say he followed a "family tradition", his father and grandfather had an account with similar characteristics to help the family. In these foundations, the beneficiaries only have powers upon the death of the owner, and it is possible that not only did Felipe appear, but in case something happened to him, he would have appointed other substitutes.

In any case, the foundation closed in 2012 and all the money ended up in a Corinna account ... I don't think he asked her son for permission either.:whistling:
Click to expand...

Miserly with his son? It was through JC that Felipe inherited the Spanish throne, with free, luxurious housing, upkeep, household staff, transportation, security, etc. His very generous salary is essentially fun money.The only living expenses that Felipe has is the education of his daughters and luxuries like vacations. What reason would JC have to give Felipe financial help?

JC doesn’t need to explain how he spends his own money. And if his plan was to split the money in a straightforward manner between his wife and children he might conceivably choose to not talk to any of them about his plans. But, instead, JC made detailed financial arrangements with the management of the bulk of the funds being entrusted to one person. Again, it would be unusual for someone to go through the trouble of putting these structures in place and instructing the heir in writing to provide for the rest of the family without at least telling him the funds exist. Much more common would be several detailed conversations over time, unofficially and one on one, or on record with the family’s wealth management team.

At the very least, Felipe has known about this for some time. He took immediate steps to protect himself. The exemplary, (Felipe’s favourite word), thing to do would have been to inform the Spanish public very soon afterward. But instead, he waited to address the issue until the level of media coverage couldn’t be ignored.

Felipe revoked his sister’s title even though she insisted she did not know she was benefitting from her husband’s financial crimes, and even though he knew that, legally, her case was straightforward and she would not be found guilty of any crime.

For those who have pointed out that “everyone knows” Cristina’s word couldn’t be trusted and defended Felipe’s decision by saying the fact that Cristina didn’t do anything illegal wasn’t the issue, but rather the very high standard she had failed to uphold: what consequence should Felipe impose on himself if it turns out these foundations weren’t entirely legal?
 
Blog Real said:
:previous:
Do you think this issue will harm the monarchy?

This is all very unfair to King Felipe VI, who has done a good job as King.
Click to expand...

King Felipe is doing an excellent service to the Spanish state, but the Spanish republican press is taking advantage of the moment country's economic situation with tax increases and cuts in wages ..... to publish the scandals of King Juan Carlos, They know that these scandals will seriously harm the monarchy.
To this we must add Corinna, who is involved in various judicial processes, her lawyers seek strategies to prevent her from being prosecuted, and it is obvious that they are ready for anything.
King Juan Carlos must also be noted that he has acted in this matter in a very irresponsible, incomprehensible, and damaging way for the monarchy, the Spanish press published that a year ago he went to London to see Corinna, she was the one who said it and she has given the date of the visit. He should have definitely broken with that lady for the good of the monarchy.
King Felipe has had to make a very hard decision for him, but, he has been forced by the situation, his father's problems must be his father's, it should not extend to the monarchy, and the only way of being able to obtain it is breaking with his father.
 
The Spanish press has far better things to do then to publish crap!!Corona and the toll of victims and why exactly it is so high!!That is the main feature now.King Felipe acted perfectly,no one can critisize that in any which way!
His dad is the once hero of democracy but became the sort of type he is now,and dispised.
 
Well said!!!
camelot23ca said:
Miserly with his son? It was through JC that Felipe inherited the Spanish throne, with free, luxurious housing, upkeep, household staff, transportation, security, etc. His very generous salary is essentially fun money.The only living expenses that Felipe has is the education of his daughters and luxuries like vacations. What reason would JC have to give Felipe financial help?

JC doesn’t need to explain how he spends his own money. And if his plan was to split the money in a straightforward manner between his wife and children he might conceivably choose to not talk to any of them about his plans. But, instead, JC made detailed financial arrangements with the management of the bulk of the funds being entrusted to one person. Again, it would be unusual for someone to go through the trouble of putting these structures in place and instructing the heir in writing to provide for the rest of the family without at least telling him the funds exist. Much more common would be several detailed conversations over time, unofficially and one on one, or on record with the family’s wealth management team.

At the very least, Felipe has known about this for some time. He took immediate steps to protect himself. The exemplary, (Felipe’s favourite word), thing to do would have been to inform the Spanish public very soon afterward. But instead, he waited to address the issue until the level of media coverage couldn’t be ignored.

Felipe revoked his sister’s title even though she insisted she did not know she was benefitting from her husband’s financial crimes, and even though he knew that, legally, her case was straightforward and she would not be found guilty of any crime.

For those who have pointed out that “everyone knows” Cristina’s word couldn’t be trusted and defended Felipe’s decision by saying the fact that Cristina didn’t do anything illegal wasn’t the issue, but rather the very high standard she had failed to uphold: what consequence should Felipe impose on himself if it turns out these foundations weren’t entirely legal?
Click to expand...
 
I remember posting this back in 2018 when this came out in the news...

WreathOfLaurels said:
It won’t go away, it will always come up whenever royal finances or government corruption becomes an issue. The best thing to do to fix the mess, would be to allow for a proper investigation into these claims what’s legit and what’s not, press charges if there has been anything illegal, pay any outstanding taxes and fines, and put the rest of the money into a charitable trust that’s NOT for the family’s use. But I somehow don’t think that’s going to happen.
Click to expand...

there are now calls for the payments and finances in question to be audited and anything that's less than pristine to be put toward fighting covid-19.

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/11834-spanish-king-says-he-renounces-inheritance-amid-100m-scandal

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/11865-spain-king-s-covid-19-speech-deafened-by-banging-pots-and-pans

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascal...family-amid-corruption-scandals/#4fd5978a1c79

Felipe and Juan Carlos need to stop trying to have their cake and eat it and show some leadership (Felipe) and do the right thing for once in their life (Juan Carlos)
 
Last edited:
WreathOfLaurels said:
Didn't realise that you could not renounce an inheritance in Spain. :whistling:
Click to expand...

That's weird. But every country has its own laws. I know that in Portugal it is possible to renounce an inheritance and it is even possible to disinherit a child or grandson.
 
In Germany you can renounce an inheritance, because you can as well inherit debt. You need to see a notary to do so and you can only renounce the complete inheritance, not part of it.

It is possible to disinherit a family member but only for very grave reasons, eg tried to kill you. For the rest, there is always a compulsary part, like 1/4 of the inheritance.


I think when the old man passes, there will be a lot to deal with regarding his finances.
 
In Spain you can renounce an inheritance, but that relinquishment is not legal or effective until the testator dies ... that is why King Felipe has declared it before a notary, to give it a certain legal value.

Unfortunately, the anti-monarchy parties and press have intentionally misinformed people to campaign against the Monarchy at a time of national crisis... probably to cover up their lousy management of that crisis.

The money was never from the Spanish, the money is from Arab monarchies... it would be in any case a fiscal issue, but not one of appropriation of public funds.

Juan Carlos has not had that money for 8 years, that money was transferred to Corinna's accounts and it is she who controls and spends it ... as the Swiss prosecution has investigated. So it is impossible for him to donate that money, because it has not been his for years.

I believe that at the time of abdication, Juan Carlos was forced to organize his financial affairs ... for example, the foundation and the accounts of this case were closed 8 years ago. So I don't think that when he passes away there will be big problems. Other things from the past may come out, but not anything from recent years.
 
Last edited:
I think we are forgetting something very important. And is that the money that King Juan Carlos received of King of Arabia Saudi through that foundation where his cousin Orleans was, really was an instrument, because the money from that foundation did not stay inside, King Juan Carlos sent it to Corinna, the recipient of the money was Corinna. And I think that this is what is being investigated in Switzerland, the use of that Foundation as an instrument ... It is obvious that the great real beneficiary of that money is Corinna. If King Juan Carlos wanted this money to Corinna, he should have created an account with his name or a figurehead, and directly entered it to Corinna's accounts. In my opinion they, Juan Carlos and Corinna, used the foundation to avoid raising suspicions about them.
I see it this way: The King Juan carlos named his son King Felipe (without saying anythingo King Felipe, King Felipe did not know nothing of it), as a beneficiary of a foundation, which acted as an instrument to transfer the money of King Juan Carlos to her lover, without raising suspicions about her, or about him.
In conclusion, King Felipe was not or will be beneficiary of ANYTHING, because his father was emptying the Foundation in favor of his lover.
Corinna is the real beneficiary of the money.
 
Last edited:
Please note that this thread has been cleaned up with speculative posts and replies have been deleted.
 
WreathOfLaurels said:
Juan Carlos’s former financial manager Arturo Fanasa tells Swiss prosecutors that he was given 1.7 mil Euros by Juan Carlos In cash to place in one of the kings Swiss bank accounts, as part of a deal involving a gift from the emir of Bahrain:

https://english.elpais.com/spanish_...-from-ruler-of-bahrain-swiss-probe-shows.html
Click to expand...

That suggests JC’s secret funds went far beyond the Saudi money that alleged was transferred to Corinna. Moreover, it is clear that Felipe was indeed the beneficiary of the Bahrain account held through the Panamanian foundation. Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
 
My question is, why would Juan Carlos name his son and heir as a beneficiary to something highly controversial as this? And this even without telling him??
It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that money like this would be under immense scrutiny, the story coming out at some point and questions asked, something that would always pose a serious thread to a King and the monarchy.

In 2010 the Noos case was clearly coming along, Inaki had been sent to Washington trying to calm things down. So Juan Carlos must have known at this stage, that the press already had a change of attitude and would not stop digging.

In terms of recklessness, it's one thing to go with a mistress to Botswana and shoot an elephant, but another to take that kind of money and name the future King as beneficiary and not telling him about it?
 
Mbruno said:
That suggests JC’s secret funds went far beyond the Saudi money that alleged was transferred to Corinna. Moreover, it is clear that Felipe was indeed the beneficiary of the Bahrain account held through the Panamanian foundation. Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
Click to expand...

He has to pretend he knew nothing to keep his throne.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
My question is, why would Juan Carlos name his son and heir as a beneficiary to something highly controversial as this? And this even without telling him??
Click to expand...

I suspect that Felipe and everybody else knew these accounts existed but there was a sort of “don’t ask don’t tell” situation as to the question of where the money came from. It also does not mean that they were going to be the ones benefiting from the specific accounts or trust in question - i suspect that Felipe and his sisters were named to avoid suspicion but the money was in fact probably intended for other recipients or the accounts were intended as rainy day funds four JC’s own use.

It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that money like this would be under immense scrutiny, the story coming out at some point and questions asked, something that would always pose a serious thread to a King and the monarchy.
Click to expand...

The whole SRF have been coddled behind a wall of industrial grade deference from the mainstream media in Spain for some time. The rested on their laurels and really did not see it coming. Also, this Kind of wheeling and dealing was widespread during the Franco years And long afterwards - for Juan Carlos at least, it was just business as usual and he can’t tell the difference anymore, if he was able to in the first place.

In 2010 the Noos case was clearly coming along, Inaki had been sent to Washington trying to calm things down. So Juan Carlos must have known at this stage, that the press already had a change of attitude and would not stop digging.
Click to expand...

In 1992 a similar set of scandals happened involving the missing funds from the Kuwait investment office, JC’s relationship with Marta Gaya becoming public knowledge and a variety of other problems including allegations of blackmail - what happened then was that the politicians rallied around the king and JC rode the crisis out. That seems to have been a turning point for JC as he really seems to have come to believe that he was indispensable and therefore untouchable.

(All of this also, incidentally, was the final nail in the proverbial coffin for him and Sofia’s relationship - a major and i believe underrated factor in JC going off the rails as much as he did. The death of his father in 1993 probably did not help either.)

I guess he was hoping the same might happen again, but he’s been so isolated and cut off from reality for so long i suspect he did not grasp just how much the media landscape changed on account of greater commercial pressure and the internet; along with a generational shift from those who were alive when the transition happened and those born after it has also lead to greater skepticism around his reputation, and hence were less willing to defer.

In terms of recklessness, it's one thing to go with a mistress to Botswana and shoot an elephant, but another to take that kind of money and name the future King as beneficiary and not telling him about it?
Click to expand...

As a I pointed out above It seems possible that Naming Felipe As the accounts beneficiary was a ruse Avoid suspicion, although that could be incorrect -who knows?

It’s not impossible, though, that JC’s poor health, his estrangement from his family, that his circle of friends are either dying or avoiding him, the chips on his shoulders from his upbringing, his tenuous grip on reality, and the fact that the reaper isn’t too far away may have engendered a certain “Apres le moi, le deluge” Mentality? He seems to have abandoned it now That the investigators are coming for him, but up until recently, to me at least, it did look that way.
 
Last edited:
Mbruno said:
Call me skeptic, but it is hard to believe Felipe knew nothing about it.
Click to expand...

It’s Sofia’s knowledge of these accounts, payments and trusts that I would like to know more about, given both how far back the allegations against Juan Carlos go and how her own personal finances are Somewhat sketchy; it would certainly explain a great deal about certain events and decisions that have been made by both Of them over the past three decades.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

lula
King Juan Carlos of Spain's Visit to the UAE, Kuwait & Saudi Arabia: May 24-28, 2008
Replies
9
Views
16K
lula
lula

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom