Princess Delphine & Family, News & Events 1; 2020 - 2023

[Mbruno]

Yes. While it may seem unsurprising to readers not familiar with Belgian law, it must be underscored that this decision is a major break with the present laws of Belgium. Until now, titles of nobility (1) have been the prerogative of the King and Government, not the courts, and (2) have been transmissible only in legitimate male line, except when a special remainder is stipulated in the patent of creation.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq




My question as well. To be consistent with the arguments of Delphine's lawyers, will the court also order a dotation, a palace, and a formal role?

Is this decision open to be appealed by King Philippe and the Government (given that titles have, until now, been under their authority) or by King Albert?

I will wait for the full court ruling to be released before making any comments.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I did not expect this. At all. I had always thought that dynastic laws were above any national law.

This is not an issue of dynastic versus national law. As stated by the federal government authority on titles of nobility, the general rule of law is that Belgian titles of nobility are inherited in legitimate male line:

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq

I am not sure if a dotation is likely. The 2014 law states that only the king and the heir will receive a dotation, with a temporary transition arrangement for Astrid and Laurent. As Delphine has nothing to transition from I am not sure how a dotation can be justified.

The justification of Delphine's lawyers for requesting the royal titles was that she deserved equal privileges with her siblings, and that argument is easily applied to their dotations as well.

I hope her partner and children do not feel neglected and ignored because if what she has been going on for years now and still counting...

I recall her saying her husband and children are supportive of her actions.

It's at least a first-round victory and maybe, just maybe, this can provide for a precedent and can lead to more illegitimate children leading lawsuits, winning those and, ultimately, forcing politics (hopefully not only in Belgium) to reform.

That's another unfairness and I do think the general exclusion of women is as outrageous as the treatment of illegitimate children, however, this is about a specific case and I think discussing other issues would clog the thread.

best wishes Michiru

Thank you for clarifying, although in my opinion the fact that the court (seemingly) declined to rule on principles of equality and instead chose to grant special treatment to Delphine is relevant to this thread.

No, why would she? Her half-aunts normally don't join the family either while also being princesses of Belgium.

Her half-aunts have not sued in court for "the same prerogatives, titles, and capacities" as their half-siblings.

 

[tommy100]

Will she be claiming its unfair Philippe is treated differently to her (And Laurent and Astrid) and using the law to try and sue to be Queen next?

I always believed this wasn't abut titles and money, clearly it was in part at least.

 

[Somebody]

Thank you for clarifying, although in my opinion the fact that the court (seemingly) declined to rule on principles of equality and instead chose to grant special treatment to Delphine is relevant to this thread.

Interesting... Will the full court order become available soon? Because from my perspective I can see how they might interpret the KB of 2015 to mean that Delphine and her children (but not her grandchildren!) are entitled to the title prince(ss) of Belgium - but I don't think that would extend to any other rights but of course am open to learn about any laws that might now apply to her situation.

Her half-aunts have not sued in court for "the same prerogatives, titles, and capacities" as their half-siblings.

I know, which makes it much more likely that Philippe will NOT invite his half-sister; as I don't see how a judge could order the king to include Delphine in all kinds of royal activities. They might order she receive money from the Belgian government but that doesn't mean that Philippe needs to 'hand her' royal activities.

Again, in light of this ruling, I see no reason why Anna Astrid and Maximilian, or for that matter Alexandra and Leopoldo Moncada, should not enjoy the same title and predicate as HRH Princess Delphine of Belgium, HRH Princess Joséphine of Belgium and HRH Prince Oscar of Belgium.

My guess it all comes down to the KB of 2015. The rule about all children and grandchildren are princes and princesses of Belgium is restricted to those of 'the king' and 'the crown prince(ss)' (interpretation seems to be those of the current and future kings and crown prince(sse)s) (art. 1) and to king Albert II's descendants (art. 2) which includes Delphine and her children but not Esmeralda's children (as grandchildren of Leopold for whose descendants other provisions apply) nor Amedeo's children (as great-grandchildren of Albert).

So, I guess your interpretation of the princes and princesses to be equal to the children and grandchildren in the rather confusing KB 2015 was the right one!

 

[Reinosa]

I have to say, I am quite happy with this. I always thought this legitimacy thing is incredibly unfair and discriminatory, treating children born out of wedlock like dirt, like some shame that has to be hushed and covered up. Something unworthy of the 21st century. And I really hope this also means Belgium has a new 17th, 18th and 19th in line-of-succession.

Anyway, congratulations for this victory, Your Royal Highness!

best wishes Michiru

y

I agree with you. Every son or daughter of the same father (or mother) should have identical rights. That's how things are in my country. It is disgusting to watch Albert denying the existence of her daughter till the end. And it would be great to see King Philippe receiving his sister in the family as any brother should do.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I guess it all comes down to the second article (of the Koninklijk besluit betreffende de verlening van de titel van Prins of Prinses van België dates from 12 NOVEMBER 2015) being interpreted to mean that all Albert's children and grandchildren are princes and princesses of Belgium...

In de openbare en private akten die hen aanbelangen, voeren de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Koning, evenals de Prinsen en de Prinsessen, kinderen en kleinkinderen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van de Kroonprins of de Kroonprinses, de titel van Prins of Prinses van België volgend op hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam en hun dynastieke titel, en voor de andere titels die hun rechtens hun ascendentie toekomen. Hun voornaam wordt voorafgegaan door het predicaat Zijne of Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid.

Source

If this was not what the lawmakers intended they should have made the provision that it only applied to children and grandchildren resulting from lawful marriages.

The original intention and traditional interpretation of the decree (which I think you agreed with when it was debated in the Titles thread some time ago) is that princes and princesses who are children or grandchildren of Albert II are princes and princesses of Belgium. It does not apply to non-princes and non-princesses who are children or grandchildren of Albert II.

Translation:

Article 2. In the public and private acts relating to them, the Princes and the Princesses, children and grandchildren, born in direct descendance from His Majesty King Albert II carry the title of Prince or of Princess of Belgium following their forename, and, so far as they carry them, their family name and their dynastic title and ahead of the other titles to which their ancestry gives them the right. Their forename is preceded by the predicate His or Her Royal Highness.​

A note for readers unfamiliar with the history of Belgian royal titles: The provision quoted by Somebody was modified from a rule originally written in 1891 (sixty years after Leopold I became King of the Belgians), which created the titles of Prince and Princess of Belgium for the first time.

The intent of the decree was to rule that the royal princes and princesses would be called princes and princesses "of Belgium". The members of the royal family already were princes and princesses.

If the intent of the decree were to rule on which descendants are princes and princesses, then none of the members of the Belgian royal family were princes and princesses between 1831 and 1891 - which would surely come as a surprise to them.

I will wait for the full court ruling to be released before making any comments.

Do you know where it would be available? I did not find the previous rulings in this case from the appeals court.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

So, I guess your interpretation of the princes and princesses to be equal to the children and grandchildren in the rather confusing KB 2015 was the right one!

I think you are confusing me with Mbruno. I interpreted it in the same way that you did - it is about the additional titles and predicates carried by princes and princesses, not about which descendants are princes and princesses.

Again, with all due respect to those who interpret it in the other way, the logical consequence of that interpretation is that there were no princes and princesses in the royal family before 1891.

 

[Marchesina]

y

I agree with you. Every son or daughter of the same father (or mother) should have identical rights. That's how things are in my country. It is disgusting to watch Albert denying the existence of her daughter till the end. And it would be great to see King Philippe receiving his sister in the family as any brother should do.

Should? One thing is to have the right to know who your parents, siblings and relatives are. Another is to oblige your father or siblings to do something they clearly don't want to do. Especially when there are no small children involved...

 

[acdc1]

y

I agree with you. Every son or daughter of the same father (or mother) should have identical rights. That's how things are in my country. It is disgusting to watch Albert denying the existence of her daughter till the end. And it would be great to see King Philippe receiving his sister in the family as any brother should do.

As someone who comes from a family where there were extramarital affairs that caused a lot of hurt, I can tell you that it is NOT as simple as just receiving her and acting like one big happy family. While Albert's affair was obviously his fault and Delphine is innocent in this situation, there is no hiding the fact that her existence is a result of Albert's betrayal to his marriage vows and his wife's trust. There's a lot of hurt and pain there, and while it would of course be wonderful if they're accepting, from personal experience I can tell you that it is extremely difficult to do, and it must be a horribly awkward situation all around.

 

[Alison H]

I was quite surprised by this. I'm glad that she's been formally recognised as Albert's daughter, and very sorry that he hasn't had the decency to recognise her himself rather than the courts having to do it, but royal titles pass through the legitimate male line. I'm not saying that that's right, just that it's how it is. Some 16th and 17th century monarchs merrily handed out dukedoms to their illegitimate sons, but not the title of prince or princess. Interesting decision.


Suppose she'd been older than Philippe? What would have happened then?

 

[Heavs]

Precissly, will she threaten her brother to bring him to court too if he, let's say, doesn't invite her to a family event?

Even with this, you can't sue someone for not inviting you to Christmas or a birthday party. Much as this is a shock, titles/surnames are a somewhat logical out come of this.

Any social interaction is not for people all over the age of 18.

Will she be claiming its unfair Philippe is treated differently to her (And Laurent and Astrid) and using the law to try and sue to be Queen next?

Probably not since Phillippe is older than her, and indeed older than Astrid. Even if you take the most vindictive or grasping interpretation she doesn't have that case.

I hope she finds whatever she's looking for. I think this was a "tale that grew in the telling" and it wasn't what she originally set out to do but grew as Albert refused to yield, but I guess we'll never know for sure.

I do feel sorry for Phillipe and his siblings over this, but never Albert. If he'd actually been decent in the first place when it became public this might not have happened.

 

[sophie25]

Gosh, I've just seen this. My main question is why would Delphine even want to be called 'Princess' after all this time and when it's unlikely that the royal family will ever want her at family events as she is practically a complete stranger to them?

 

[amaryllus]

She can certainly use the old “Boo hoo! The Royal family is so cold and unwelcoming to me and mine! I deserved to be at that birthday party! I just want to know my new family!” Routine to manipulate the media and public if they don’t include her in private family events now.

 

[sophie25]

I wonder how this will translate to other royal families with illigitimate offspring. I've read, for example, that the mother of Prince Albert of Monaco's son Alexandre has always been very keen for her son to be a Prince. Could that now happen and, if so, could he displace Prince Jacques as heir to the throne? Just how relevent is the Belgian judgement in the overall scheme of things?

 

[titiromi]

Monaco in an independant country and has its own legal system and laws different from Belgium. I don't see why what is ruled by a minor court in Belgium should have any influence in another country at all.

I am very shocked by this decision. I understand why she would be entitled to the Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha's name but the title of a princess is too much. Titles come not only from blood but also from a recognised wedding. what's the point in having titled persons if traditionnal royal rules are not to be followed after all. The mere existence of a monarchy causes inequality.

 

[HereditaryPrincess]

This was surprising! I expected them to give Delphine a noble title at the least - such as Countess - or whatever the Belgian equivalent of Baroness/Lady is (I'm not quite familiar with Belgian titles and how they work) but not princess and HRH. I wonder if something rippled between her and Albert, forcing him to give her a title?

 

[amaryllus]

But It’s legal precedent now. An illegitimate child has been recognized and titled by law. It opens the door the tiniest crack for other Aspiring Royal or Noble illegitimate children to at least Try In their countries. And they will sooner or later.

 

[Roslyn]

I have fully supported Delphine's cause so far and I am very pleased with the outcome, though I do admit to being surprised at the claim for the royal title. Surname yes, title no. But I suppose she thought that having achieved recognition she might as well have a go at title. However, I hope she leaves it there, and does not press on to be involved in either formal or family events, particularly family events. I don't think her legitimate royal half-siblings and their families should have to welcome her if they do not want to do that. None of this was their fault. If they want to establish a relationship and reach out to her, fine, but if it happens it needs to be organic, not forced.

 

[titiromi]

But It’s legal precedent now. An illegitimate child has been recognized and titled by law. It opens the door the tiniest crack for other Aspiring Royal or Noble illegitimate children to at least Try In their countries. And they will sooner or later.

Monaco and Belgium are civil law countries (as opposed to common law countries such as the UK and USA). In a civil law system, written laws supercede "precedent", and "precedent" can be overruled by another judgment. Judges are not bound by what were ruled before. Case laws are just used to know how law was sometimes interpreted (but only on a country level).

 

[sophie25]

But It’s legal precedent now. An illegitimate child has been recognized and titled by law. It opens the door the tiniest crack for other Aspiring Royal or Noble illegitimate children to at least Try In their countries. And they will sooner or later.

Yes I think so too. Not every mother of an illegitimate child by a royal father will persue this route but some definitely will. The question is whether royal status and/or succession to the throne is ultimately determined by the courts or by the incumbent Sovereign. This is going to get interesting.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

According to the RTBF (Walloon public television channel), Delphine Boël is now officially princess of Belgium.

The court in Brussels has decided that she will be princess of Belgium. The same goes for her children Josephine and Oscar, all with the prefix of Royal Highness. The judgement took place earlier than expected.

According to Het Gazet van Antwerpen her lawyer confirmed to them that she 'will receive a recognition of paternity, the last name of van Saksen-Coburg and the title of Princess of Belgium'. I have not seen the last name being confirmed by either the RTBF or the VRT but updates will surely follow soon.

According to newspaper 'De Standaard' it is still possible that King Albert will appeal against the judgement.

https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/d...nt-designee-princesse-de-belgique?id=10598252

https://www.gva.be/cnt/dmf20201001_...is-nu-officieel-prinses-van-belgie-meldt-rtbf

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/delphine-boel-is-nu-officieel-een-belgische-prinses~bacbbc01/

Edit I: the VRT now also claims that she can will get the last name of 'van Saxe-Coburg'.

I too have observed various spellings in the media, but the traditional versions would be "van Saksen-Coburg" in Dutch and "de Saxe-Cobourg" in French.

Edit II: according to Wim Dehandschutter (Flemish royalty reporter) the children will continue to use the last name of their father, O'Hare.

Unsurprising if true. Princess Astrid's children and grandchildren also carry the last name of their father in spite of being Belgian princes and princesses.

2. Why shouldn't the ruling apply to Delphine's husband as well, given that the spouses of Lorenz and Claire are HRH and Prince/ss of Belgium?

Apparently all of the information on the ruling was released by the former Delphine Boël's lawyers, so I wonder if perhaps it does apply to her husband but her lawyers have not mentioned that to the press. Hopefully her press conference next Monday will clarify the matter.

 

[AristoCat]

This is just plain bad juju; Delphine deserved legal recognition and credibility, I accept that, but a title, and "HRH" no less? It is clear that she wasn't entirely honest about her intentions and now the prerogative of titles has been effectively yanked from the sole control of the Sovereign.

 

[Marchesina]

She can certainly use the old “Boo hoo! The Royal family is so cold and unwelcoming to me and mine! I deserved to be at that birthday party! I just want to know my new family!” Routine to manipulate the media and public if they don’t include her in private family events now.

Precisely. That's my concern. Maybe she can't use the court for any single thing she won't get from her family. But certainly she can use media to discredit them, playing the victim card.
She deserved to know the truth, she deserved the name even. But this want to have what her sibling got in their life seems over the top to say the least, considering that the marriage of their parents is the reason why they got titles and all that comes with that.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

So, does this mean she will now fight to have her children included in the Succession? And who in Belgium and/or Europe is going to be referring to this woman as HRH?

What a mess. Just no words.

 

[KellyAtLast]

So, does this mean she will now fight to have her children included in the Succession? And who in Belgium and/or Europe is going to be referring to this woman as HRH?

What a mess. Just no words.

Her next fight to be allowed to wear the Crown Jewels and be invited to state dinners and receptions and have access to royal property and also a post for her and her descendants by Belgian monarchy social media when they have their birthdays etc etc. Cause you know other kids have it so she should have it too. It’s absurd and King Philippe should put up a fight.

 

[AristoCat]

So, does this mean she will now fight to have her children included in the Succession? And who in Belgium and/or Europe is going to be referring to this woman as HRH?

What a mess. Just no words.

Most likely, yes. I also believe that she will end up being interested in official overseas engagements and the fuss that the others are used to.

 

[leidi]

Her next fight to be allowed to wear the Crown Jewels and be invited to state dinners and receptions and have access to royal property and also a post for her and her descendants by Belgian monarchy social media when they have their birthdays etc etc. Cause you know other kids have it so she should have it too. It’s absurd and King Philippe should put up a fight.

The thing is, Philippe will end up looking like the "bad guy" if he does, now has to clean his father's mess

 

[rominet09]

I am not pleased... How many Princes and Princesses in Belgium will that make ? I would have approved of her being given the Saxe-Cobourg name but I think this is too much.

 

[KellyAtLast]

I am not pleased... How many Princes and Princesses in Belgium will that make ? I would have approved of her being given the Saxe-Cobourg name but I think this is too much.

Right?! It’s so ridiculous. Who’s the judge in this. I’m sorry but they were not very smart.

 

[tihkon2]

Holy cow! Didn't expect that to happen. The Belgian court got this decision plain wrong. Saxe-Coburg? Yes. HRH? No. What a joke.