Delphine Boël, daughter of King Albert II

[iceflower]

An eye-catching, expressive mask Delphine has chosen for the special day today..


** gettyimages gallery: BEL: Delphine Boël Appears For The Last Hearing At The Court Of Appeal In Brussels **

 

[Marengo]

Apparently 14.000 volunteers of the red cross in Belgium may look forward to receiving a mask with a pattern that was designed by her. This was a hope that Delphine expressed when she presented a painting in the university hospital of Ghent, three days ago. The painting was offered for free. It places a red cross in the center. The cross is surrounded by the word 'love'.

The painting offered to the hospital is number 241 out of aa set of 300 a copies of a larger work by Delphine. It was received by the mayor of Ghent, an alderman of the city and the chairman of the Red Cross. Delphine's speech was done in English.

https://m.hln.be/in-de-buurt/waarsc...henkt-kunstwerk-aan-rode-kruis-gent~a71543a4/

 

[Skippy]

Hmm, well I'd always thought well of her for saying she didn't want the royal trappings but just to know who her father is....why the sudden change? Or was this her plans all along?

My thought exactly. I rather think that, concerning the Princess title, something changed along the way. I do think that this is an unreasonable request.
From October 29, I would have expected to see "Delphine of Saxe-Coburg" on a genealogy site - I do not expect a HRH Princess Delphine of Saxe-Coburg and it wouldn't surprise me if the Princess title would not be granted.

All in all it's indeed a big mess made by King Albert.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I find this a rather unreasonable request. Although one can only speculate why on earth she wants to use the last name of a father she has been battling with for nearly 2 decades -would her mother's name not be more logical- to be expected to be made a princess of Belgium is a whole other level. I can't imagine she will be made HRH Princess of Belgium but if she is, what will be the next step? Claiming a right to a dotation [since 1993], as Astrid and Laurent?

Her attorney is quoted as arguing that she deserves the same "privileges, titles, and capacities" and should be "treated in the same manner" as her siblings. As Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent all enjoy the "privileges" of a state dotation and residence and the "capacity" of being workings royal, these privileges and capacities are presumably included in her request.

Considering King Philippe's own policies of slimming the number of princes and princesses who work for the monarchy, are state funded, and/or are called "of Belgium", I can only imagine he will not welcome her request.

Would the fact that she married a commoner (and without permission) have any bearing on her rights to hold a royal title? I realize that the marriage came before the paternity suit, but I wonder if it would offer a "loophole" for the family refusing to grant her a title.

Probably not. King Leopold II's second marriage to Lilian Baels was not even considered valid in the constitutional sense (though it was valid under civil law), and his children by her are recognized as HRHs and Prince and Princesses of Belgium. Refer to this link for more information: https://www.senate.be/lexdocs/S0509/S05091665.pdf


The argument cited by King Albert II's attorney is that titles are a prerogative of the executive power (i.e. the king and government) and not the courts.

Affaire Delphine Boël : la Cour d'appel rendra une décision définitive le 29 octobre

The court is expected to issue its ruling on October 29.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I felt sympathy for Delphine...up to now. She is being unreasonable and silly, and if this is what she was aiming for all along she is also dishonest.

 

[Prinsara]

I meant to ask what she might want to bargain down to, since, as you point out, no bargaining is needed for her to receive the share of the estate and the name change.

Hmm, well I'd always thought well of her for saying she didn't want the royal trappings but just to know who her father is....why the sudden change? Or was this her plans all along?

I find this a rather unreasonable request. Although one can only speculate why on earth she wants to use the last name of a father she has been battling with for nearly 2 decades -would her mother's name not be more logical- to be expected to be made a princess of Belgium is a whole other level. I can't imagine she will be made HRH Princess of Belgium but if she is, what will be the next step? Claiming a right to a dotation [since 1993], as Astrid and Laurent?

Luckily for the court she will not hold these proceedings against her own sibling(s). But who knows what will happen in the future.

What a colossal mistake mess King Albert has made out of this.

There have been rumors (far longer than Delphine's title ones) that Albert has spent much of the past 21 years as he could moving his money around, so that Delphine will not get exactly what Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent do. The statement from her lawyer may just be putting his people on notice. The "title threats" could be something to bargain with.

But then:
-Delphine has of course always said it wasn't about the money (though potentially being cheated is probably another matter...)
-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.

What do you "bargain down to" from HRH Princess and what does Delphine really want? No idea, but I have a suspicion it's "to ensure the BRF can't immediately re-sweep her under the rug" now that the legalities are done. We'll have to see when it actually happens.

Edit: If Delphine's talking about love these days, she's either way more duplicitous than she seems — or she's not in an especially vindictive mood, legalese aside. Imho.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.

If the courts will uphold the argument from her lawyers that it is "unacceptable" for her not to be "treated in the same manner as the other [children]", and the statement is taken literally, the logical conclusion is that King Philippe would be forced to accept her entitlement to royal titles, a state-funded dotation, a residence from the Royal Donation, a role as a working royal, a place in the line of succession, and so forth (unless he chooses to strip these privileges from Astrid or Laurent as well).

Regarding titles, I wonder whether Delphine and her lawyers hold that all other illegitimate children of Belgian noblemen also deserve to inherit the titles of their fathers. If not, then what is their argument for being stricter with ordinary titles of nobility than the titles of the Royal Family?

 

[Prinsara]

If the courts will uphold the argument from her lawyers that it is "unacceptable" for her not to be "treated in the same manner as the other [children]", and the statement is taken literally, the logical conclusion is that King Philippe would be forced to accept her entitlement to royal titles, a state-funded dotation, a residence from the Royal Donation, a role as a working royal, a place in the line of succession, and so forth (unless he chooses to strip these privileges from Astrid or Laurent as well).

But royal privilege is a privilege, not a right (and not a legal right). I would think a lawyer would shoot that down exceptionally fast.

Would Philippe's legal immunity not cover the situation as well? If she couldn't get DNA from a sitting Albert, I don't think Philippe can be compelled to recognize or correct anything.

 

[Skippy]

I felt sympathy for Delphine...up to now. She is being unreasonable and silly, and if this is what she was aiming for all along she is also dishonest.

I sympathized with her as well (as made obvious in my previous posts), but when I heard all this new stuff today my view changed.
She had the right to be legalized as King Albert's daughter and to bear his last name (making her Delphine of Saxe-Coburg) and that was what she wanted, but now she is demanding the HRH Princess Delphine stuff.
IMO that goes too far. She is not the same as her half-siblings. Same father, yes, but different mother.
It sounds greedy - grabbing all she can possibly get.

The change of "Jonkvrouw Delphine Boël" to "Delphine of Saxe-Coburg" would be enough for me (paternity both biologically and legally settled and the correct last name), but then I don't work for the Court of Appeal.

 

[leidi]

I think the one thing that is clear is that she won't be in the line of sucession (like Leopold and Lilian's children) but apart from that, this is a complete and utter mess.

Yet another thing Albert has thrown to his eldest son for him to solve.

What a great "father" this man has been... ¬¬

 

[leidi]

There have been rumors (far longer than Delphine's title ones) that Albert has spent as much of the past 21 years as he could moving his money around, so that Delphine will not get exactly what Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent do. The statement from her lawyer may just be putting his people on notice. The "title threats" could be something to bargain with.

But then:
-Delphine has of course always said it wasn't about the money (though potentially being cheated is probably another matter...)
-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.

What do you "bargain down to" from HRH Princess and what does Delphine really want? No idea, but I have a suspicion it's "to ensure the BRF can't immediately re-sweep her under the rug" now that the legalities are done. We'll have to see when it actually happens.

Edit: If Delphine's talking about love these days, she's either way more duplicitous than she seems — or she's not in an especially vindictive mood, legalese aside. Imho.

First he changed his pre-nup, so he and Paola are now in full sharing of everything they both have, so the surviving spouse would get 75% of their assets and it seems like they made a clause for the legitimate born children of their marriage to receive more than other children born out of it.

Also, weren't they giving away properties to their grandchildren already? I know they gave the twins something in Belgium and I heard rumors that both Amedeo and Elisabeth have already received something as well (for his wedding and for her 18th birthday).

 

[MsJulie]

I agree after what Delphine said in the past to now seems way out of place....now to gain the title HRH/Princess. I still would like to give her a chance....what happened, what changed, who advised her to ask/request/somewhat demand a title. Why did the Former King stop fighting. To be a fly on the wall to know what is going on behind the scenes. Will we ever know?

 

[Somebody]

The general rule of the Belgian nobility is that titles are only recognized for descendants in legitimate male line, though special remainders have occasionally been granted. I am not sure of the particulars of law - as a matter of fact, there seems to be some confusion around what legislation the rule is founded on.

Wouldn't this principle hold for royal titles as well? And if not, I would imagine the rules for royal titles to be stricter not less strict.

So, I agree with many that Delphine is overplaying her hand with her latest requests. There is no reason at all that the state should fund in any way shape or form Albert's off-spring outside of his recognized marriage. I personally don't think she should get a royal title but in that case she could probably claim that Leopold's younger children got it as well, while there were some troubles with the legalities of that marriage as well. I guess, if she gets her title, she also wants a title for her children - because they are also the king's grandchildren...

 

[Mbruno]

Hmm, I suppose that King Albert's biological recognition did set something in motion with her concerning her wanted last name and titles.......
So her goal is apparently HRH Princess Delphine of Saxe-Coburg, I think? Now, with the biological admission already there, she wants the complete package, it seems. Wanting is one, granting is two and I'm not sure how I feel about this. It does seem a change of attitude.

I thought she only wanted the legal recognition and the last name, then I suppose that I was wrong and Mbruno was right about this.

Anyway, I understand that the court will pronounce the verdict within a month. So we'll see.

But in any case/way: this whole trial is over now.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I have said all along that she would go for a title (HRH Princess) and full membership of the RF. But most posters here didn't believe it.

Wouldn't this principle hold for royal titles as well? And if not, I would imagine the rules for royal titles to be stricter not less strict.

So, I agree with many that Delphine is overplaying her hand with her latest requests. There is no reason at all that the state should fund in any way shape or form Albert's off-spring outside of his recognized marriage. I personally don't think she should get a royal title but in that case she could probably claim that Leopold's younger children got it as well, while there were some troubles with the legalities of that marriage as well. I guess, if she gets her title, she also wants a title for her children - because they are also the king's grandchildren...

The situation is different. Léopold was legally married to Lilian when she gave birth to their children.

 

[rominet09]

I have always questioned her motives, it seems I was right

 

[Marchesina]

I am completely supportive of a person's right to know her biological parents. However in this particular case, it seems to me motives are questionable to say the least. If knowing who she was was her real goal, she would have stopped there. Yet she didn't.

 

[Heavs]

I honestly don't know her motives, whether she's trying to call their bluff and bargain down or sincerely wants/believes she can be HRH Princess of Belgium with everything that it comes with it and always thought that way. The former sounds more plausible than the latter considering she doesn't seem like a stupid woman.

I know it's not the same thing but in a world where we acknowledge it's completely acceptable for families who's inherited titles lost any legality or significance over 100 years ago to still cling fiercely to them and talk about how it's "not just about the law, it's something inherent to our family" without their motives being (too) questioned, I can see illegitimate children being "he's my father too, all this illustrious history is mine too, why shouldn't I get a title too?"

So whilst I think she's overstepping, I don't see it as an outrage or proof that she was always in bad faith. It's still not as if she asked to be born. I do feel sorry for Phillippe having to deal with it all as well as his and his siblings personal feelings about the situation.

 

[leidi]

https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20...AC5B46D6774518EDDC3EC676D30CA46BC6FC401E6FB0B

So according to WD, she never wanted the titles or recognition until January when the DNA tests were out and Albert outright refused to acknowledge himself? Just released a press note and that was it, so she got mad and decided to continue with this until its last consequences.

I don't know, something is not really adding up right now, she's definitely out for revenge but always showed herself in a different way until this point.

She's not really thinking of her kids either IMO, they will definitely be caught in the crossfire and will of course not benefit from this at all, I really doubt they'd even get to meet their uncles and aunt or their cousins for example.

 

[Mbruno]

I honestly don't know her motives, whether she's trying to call their bluff and bargain down or sincerely wants/believes she can be HRH Princess of Belgium with everything that it comes with it and always thought that way. The former sounds more plausible than the latter considering she doesn't seem like a stupid woman.

I know it's not the same thing but in a world where we acknowledge it's completely acceptable for families who's inherited titles lost any legality or significance over 100 years ago to still cling fiercely to them and talk about how it's "not just about the law, it's something inherent to our family"

That is not the case for noble or royal titles, both of which are legally recognized and protected by law. And they are still significant. In the case of royal titles, they are even associated with an official public role and, in the case of Belgium, even state funding and other prerogatives as laid out by Tatiana Maria such as a residence from the Royal Donation Trust, etc.



It is quite obvious that Mme. Boël would not have given up the Boël inheritance if her lawyers had not persuaded her instead that she had a credible chance of a bigger prize, i.e. the full prerogatives of a princess of Belgium.

https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20...AC5B46D6774518EDDC3EC676D30CA46BC6FC401E6FB0B

So according to WD, she never wanted the titles or recognition until January when the DNA tests were out and Albert outright refused to acknowledge himself? Just released a press note and that was it, so she got mad and decided to continue with this until its last consequences.

When the DNA tests were made public, King Albert issued a note acknowledging Delphine was his daughter and saying that he would make provisions for her in his will. In fact, he is no longer questioning in court Delphine's demand that he be recognized as her legal father. So I don't know what WD is talking about.


Of course, after repeatedly saying that she had no interest in money or titles, she has to come up with some far-fetched excuse to justify why she has made a U-turn now and is asking for both titles and money.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The is the never ending story.

Having had empathy for Delphine Boël I find I'm now wondering what is her goal?

 

[Heavs]

That is not the case for noble or royal titles, both of which are legally recognized and protected by law. And they are still significant. In the case of royal titles, they are even associated with an official public role and, in the case of Belgium, even state funding and other prerogatives as laid out by Tatiana Maria such as a residence from the Royal Donation Trust, etc.

I'm well aware of all of that. I wasn't talking about Belgian royalty or nobility. I was just commenting that we don't necessarily question the motives/characters of people who want to hang on to titles which are no longer recognised (and in some cases actually illegal) but the families like to claim is their inherent right as descendants of all this illustriousness, making them special beyond what a constitution says. And people/other courts agree and use these titles as courtesy. And there are ugly (and public) family feuds over headship, marriage and status even when property or money aren't involved.

I wasn't making any case that Delphine should becoming HRH Princess, I don't actually think she should. I was just saying if we can understand why those people want to cling on to them, perhaps we can understand why Delphine (and Carlos Klynstra) might feel entitled to them as well without suddenly questioning their entire characters.

 

[crm2317]

I simply don’t understand why you would want the name of someone who has denied you and treated you so badly.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

That is not the case for noble or royal titles, both of which are legally recognized and protected by law. And they are still significant. In the case of royal titles, they are even associated with an official public role and, in the case of Belgium, even state funding and other prerogatives as laid out by Tatiana Maria such as a residence from the Royal Donation Trust, etc.



It is quite obvious that Mme. Boël would not have given up the Boël inheritance if her lawyers had not persuaded her instead that she had a credible chance of a bigger prize, i.e. the full prerogatives of a princess of Belgium.

Very much doubt that being a prinses van België / princesse de Belgique brings more wealth and privileges than being Madame Boël. Ask Princess Marie Christine, ask Princess Maria Esmeralda, ask Prince Laurent...

 

[An Ard Ri]

Ofcourse I still firmly believe Albert II handled this very badly and his son has inherited the mess,would it be possible for Delphine to be made a Countess as compromise?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Ofcourse I still firmly believe Albert II handled this very badly and his son has inherited the mess,would it be possible for Delphine to be made a Countess as compromise?

The King regularly elevates Belgians into the Nobility, so yes.
But that is not what Delphine asks. Delphine already was a noble as daughter of jonkheer Jacques Boël / messire Jacques Boėl, écuyer. Now she is no longer his daughter, she needs another surname.

It seems the King is very much acting in the interests of Queen Paola, who seems the motor behind the obstructive policy.

 

[Denville]

I simply don’t understand why you would want the name of someone who has denied you and treated you so badly.

Because he's her father. I don't entirely agree with the woman but I think she has a right to be angry and hurt and it has probably made her embittered.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I know it's not the same thing but in a world where we acknowledge it's completely acceptable for families who's inherited titles lost any legality or significance over 100 years ago to still cling fiercely to them and talk about how it's "not just about the law, it's something inherent to our family" without their motives being (too) questioned, I can see illegitimate children being "he's my father too, all this illustrious history is mine too, why shouldn't I get a title too?"

I was just commenting that we don't necessarily question the motives/characters of people who want to hang on to titles which are no longer recognised (and in some cases actually illegal) but the families like to claim is their inherent right as descendants of all this illustriousness, making them special beyond what a constitution says.

While I personally think that contentions such as "titles are something inherent to our family" and "we are above the constitution" are very questionable regardless of who is pleading them, I can understand how, for those so convinced, it justifies a request like Mrs. Boël's.

However, it is extremely ironic that many of the very same royal experts who most severely attack inheritance of royal and noble titles through female lines because it is "a breach with tradition" and "laws cannot change the fact that dynasties are determined by the father" are adamantly declaring that Delphine Boël deserves to be an HRH Princess of Belgium because "the times have changed" and "there is no law that explicitly forbids her from becoming one".

So, I agree with many that Delphine is overplaying her hand with her latest requests. There is no reason at all that the state should fund in any way shape or form Albert's off-spring outside of his recognized marriage.

From what I am seeing, the two main reasons presented by royal watchers who defend Mrs. Boël's right to state funding and housing are that there is no law stating she should not receive these benefits and that she deserves monetary compensation for her biological father's treatment of her over the years. (I am still not clear on why they reason that the financial burden should fall on the shoulders of the government and the Belgian public rather than King Albert himself.)

 

[princess gertrude]

Hmm, well I'd always thought well of her for saying she didn't want the royal trappings but just to know who her father is....why the sudden change? Or was this her plans all along?

My thoughts were the same. Wasn't it she that said that she only wanted to be recognized as his daughter. I also can't help but think that this was her plan all along. Not that King Albert handled things well from the beginning, but I have never thought much of Delphine and think even less of her now that this has surfaced.

 

[camelot23ca]

My thoughts were the same. Wasn't it she that said that she only wanted to be recognized as his daughter. I also can't help but think that this was her plan all along. Not that King Albert handled things well from the beginning, but I have never thought much of Delphine and think even less of her now that this has surfaced.

Oh of course it’s been her goal all along. What other goal would there be?

You don’t spend years of your life going after someone like she has Albert for simple recognition.

I sympathize with how hurtful it must be to have a father who’s not especially interested in you but there’s a difference between hurt and bitterness. Hurt can be managed, bitterness just festers and gets uglier as time goes on. She could get every title and royal honour available in Belgium and it won’t change the fact that Delphine and her mother lost when it mattered - Albert went back to the people he considered his real family and seemingly never looked back. The courts can’t magically change the past so that Delphine’s mother was Albert’s wife instead of the mistress and Delphine was the child whose welfare he chose to prioritize.

On the other hand, unlike many children in similar situations, Delphine had a man who publicly recognized her as his daughter and assumed the responsibilities involved with having a child and she seems to have tossed him aside much like Albert did to her so I won’t shed too many tears for her.

I remember at the beginning of this little drama being willing to give Delphine the benefit of the doubt because her biological father and her mother really did put her in a bad position. But it’s become increasingly clear she’s motivated only by bitterness and greed. She needs to lick her wounds and move on.

 

[Nice Nofret]

Oh of course it’s been her goal all along. What other goal would there be?

You don’t spend years of your life going after someone like she has Albert for simple recognition.

I sympathize with how hurtful it must be to have a father who’s not especially interested in you but there’s a difference between hurt and bitterness. Hurt can be managed, bitterness just festers and gets uglier as time goes on. She could get every title and royal honour available in Belgium and it won’t change the fact that Delphine and her mother lost when it mattered - Albert went back to the people he considered his real family and seemingly never looked back. The courts can’t magically change the past so that Delphine’s mother was Albert’s wife instead of the mistress and Delphine was the child whose welfare he chose to prioritize.

On the other hand, unlike many children in similar situations, Delphine had a man who publicly recognized her as his daughter and assumed the responsibilities involved with having a child and she seems to have tossed him aside much like Albert did to her so I won’t shed too many tears for her.

I remember at the beginning of this little drama being willing to give Delphine the benefit of the doubt because her biological father and her mother really did put her in a bad position. But it’s become increasingly clear she’s motivated only by bitterness and greed. She needs to lick her wounds and move on.

That summs it up nicely I think


i start to feel very sorry for Delphine; she is trapped in her bitterness instead of living her life; it would be much healthear for her to move on.