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  #1801  
Old 09-12-2020, 07:58 PM
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Hmmm respectfully Prinsara I disagree, I'm not sure why Philippe would or should apologise for Alberts actions. Likely Philippe is hurt by Albert's actions too but also by Delphine's actions. ATM he has the ability to say its nothing to do with him and up to his father to make it right.

I can see the logic in trying to, effectively, "neutralise" the 'Delphine issue' by letting her in, accepting her as part of the wider family etc but what I struggle to see if why Philippe would bring himself to do that? Is his position, his throne really that much in danger by comments and legal actions from Albert's illegitimate daughter? I could understand why Philippe may feel if his father couldn't or wouldn't make things right in his time on the throne by should Philippe get involved now.

It seems likely IMO that this statement of desire over HRH and royal status and privileges is a starting point in a negotiation but it makes it more unlikely Delphine will end with her head held high and the public supporting her.

What would be interesting is how is this issue seen in Belgium? Is Delphine respected for her fight? Is she seen as in the right? Do people believe she should also become HRH, Princes etc?
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  #1802  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:37 PM
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I think Delphine is hurt by, amongst other things, the fact that Albert’s other children don’t want anything to do with her. Since this mess started, there has never been any reports that the three have even met her. I think she’s trying to get them to recognize her as their sister and there is no legal obligation for them to do any such thing. They owe her nothing. She probably thinks that by pushing to become an official member of the RF means that will have to welcome her
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  #1803  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:45 PM
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Actually, there have been reports that Laurent has both spoken with her (presumably amicably) and publicly told her "stop saying you're my sister". Not exactly a great source of support, though who knows which way his wind will blow now.
Ultra-conservative Astrid can reasonably be expected to steer clear and I doubt Delphine is trying there.
Philippe is the wild card and the only one who really matters.
  #1804  
Old 09-12-2020, 09:56 PM
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The reality is not everyone is willing to open their arms to half siblings. Especially ones that are the product of your parent's extramarital fling. We all can hope we would be big enough to look past the situation but not everyone is.

One thing is certain making a big messy public display of it, isn't going to endear her to her siblings. If they were already not willing to open their arms and homes to her, this court case is not likely to do it. The courts can offer her money and maybe a title but they cant force the family to actually accept her.

It would be nice if she and her kids were invited to some of the more public occasions (not on the stage with the family but invited to attend). You cant expect them invited to join the king for his family Christmas.

I hope whatever she gains from this is worth it for her. She had exposed a lot more then Albert to scrutiny through his. Her mother, her children, her siblings. The title and recognition must mean a lot as she is likely not to gain much else from this. I wonder if when this is all said and done, and she has the public recognition but no family connection, if down the line she might regret pushing this so much.


I am in no way ever letting Albert off. He had an obligation to her, at least when she was a minor. But this whole thing is a mess which I keep failing to see what is really gained in the end.


If Delphine had grown up roughly, lacking for things as her father abandoned them financially and such, I could understand wanting to have financial recognition now. The 'you owe me' kind of feeling. But Delphine was well provided for by Jacques.
  #1805  
Old 09-13-2020, 12:26 AM
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Astrid was instrumental in effecting the reconciliation of Albert and Paola. One imagines she will not be inclined to have anything to do with her half-sister.
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  #1806  
Old 09-13-2020, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
The reality is not everyone is willing to open their arms to half siblings. Especially ones that are the product of your parent's extramarital fling. We all can hope we would be big enough to look past the situation but not everyone is.

One thing is certain making a big messy public display of it, isn't going to endear her to her siblings. If they were already not willing to open their arms and homes to her, this court case is not likely to do it. The courts can offer her money and maybe a title but they cant force the family to actually accept her.

It would be nice if she and her kids were invited to some of the more public occasions (not on the stage with the family but invited to attend). You cant expect them invited to join the king for his family Christmas.

I hope whatever she gains from this is worth it for her. She had exposed a lot more then Albert to scrutiny through his. Her mother, her children, her siblings. The title and recognition must mean a lot as she is likely not to gain much else from this. I wonder if when this is all said and done, and she has the public recognition but no family connection, if down the line she might regret pushing this so much.


I am in no way ever letting Albert off. He had an obligation to her, at least when she was a minor. But this whole thing is a mess which I keep failing to see what is really gained in the end.


If Delphine had grown up roughly, lacking for things as her father abandoned them financially and such, I could understand wanting to have financial recognition now. The 'you owe me' kind of feeling. But Delphine was well provided for by Jacques.
Thats the point. Albert, and ONLY Albert, has any obligation to her. His other children, Queen Paola and the Belgian State and Government owe her nothing,
  #1807  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:35 AM
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I agree with this completely. Best possible solution for all involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
How I would fix this if I were Philippe (which I am not):

1) Apologize privately for your mutual-father. Albert is not going to; somebody needs to. You've been treated very badly and we're sorry and we do want you as part of the family.

2) Public signs of recognition and reconciliation. Let her come quietly to appropriate events and memorials, if she wants. Why should she get less than Isabelle Wybo? If other people cease treating her like persona non grata, Albert may rediscover some manners before he dies. (I'm sorry if this embarrasses your mom. She's already been embarrased for quite a while. Her pride doesn't entail treating someone else badly.) Bonus: the faster you normalize it, the faster it stops being news.

3) Let her kids have access to their royal heritage, like yours and their cousins do. Let them visit and run around the palaces, if they want. Why not? Probably can't hurt. Would likely help.

If you do 1, 2, and 3, you may not even have to do

4) Give her whatever non-HRH title works. I think Delphine will only push for so-called equal treatment if she's not shown any acceptance. Some kindness and true noblesse oblige could make this better before it likely gets worse.
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  #1808  
Old 09-13-2020, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
Thats the point. Albert, and ONLY Albert, has any obligation to her. His other children, Queen Paola and the Belgian State and Government owe her nothing,
I agree completely.
This is Albert's mess, not Philippe's or the Belgian State's.
  #1809  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:16 AM
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I very think anything Delphine gets should be from Albert personally not the Crown or the State. I mean this is Albert's own personal mess so his personal assets should be the only things in play. If you or I suddenly found we had an illegitimate child would our employer (in this case the Belgian state) be expected to be liable for giving that child perks?

I always understood Delphine going after Albert for recognition and would have understood her going for his finance but this is just getting a bit silly and greedy now IMO.
  #1810  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Actually, there have been reports that Laurent has both spoken with her (presumably amicably) and publicly told her "stop saying you're my sister". Not exactly a great source of support, though who knows which way his wind will blow now.
Ultra-conservative Astrid can reasonably be expected to steer clear and I doubt Delphine is trying there.
Philippe is the wild card and the only one who really matters.
From the liltte I have heard of Laurent he's a pretty difficult and erratic person and isn't likely to be any support. I dont think that Delphine can expect her half siblings to be friends with her, but I suppose she does feel hurt at her fathers' rejection and wants SOMEONE to show her friendship. However it would be nice if Philippe could make some gesture of support. But I get the feeling that they are all basically shying away from her and don't want to share finances or any kind of relationship and probably none of them really want to have anything to do with her. However they're not the ones who created the mess.. that was Albert. If he had relented sooner, he would have releived the pressure
  #1811  
Old 09-13-2020, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I think when posters (or Delphine herself) refer to mistreatment by Albert it is typically not a reference to his behavior during Delphine's childhood but rather since 1999, when his paternity was made public by the press (not by Delphine), leading to his choice to terminate their private relationship and refuse to provide assistance with the fallout.

I think it would be fairer if each poster could speak for their own feelings rather than having others attempt to guess and speak their feelings on their behalf.

The first part is exactly why I posted what I did. The poster I was responding to repeatedly seems to ignore everything after the 1999 fallout. That is unfair and I just had to say what I did.

This is truly my last post here for now. Probably I'll be back when the verdict is issued.
  #1812  
Old 09-13-2020, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskimo View Post
I think Delphine is hurt by, amongst other things, the fact that Alberts other children dont want anything to do with her. Since this mess started, there has never been any reports that the three have even met her. I think shes trying to get them to recognize her as their sister and there is no legal obligation for them to do any such thing. They owe her nothing. She probably thinks that by pushing to become an official member of the RF means that will have to welcome her
Maybe.. or maybe she knows they wotn befriend her, feels hurt and wants at least some public recognition and financial recognition because - she thinks it will make up for the fact that her father has treated her so badly. I dont think they will and I think she'd be wiser to settle for a share of his assets when he dies and maybe a polite occasional meeting. They don't have to be best friends.. just an occasional thing. albert is the one hwo is at fault - but it does not seem like he will change at this stage...
  #1813  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:20 AM
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I also forgot that Belgium has nobles with non royal Princely titles and that Lillian Baels was created Princess of Rthy for life in 1941.
  #1814  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
I agree completely.
This is Albert's mess, not Philippe's or the Belgian State's.
As a Belgian I completely agree with you !
  #1815  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:35 AM
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I will come back when after the final Verdict !
  #1816  
Old 09-13-2020, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
I also forgot that Belgium has nobles with non royal Princely titles and that Lillian Baels was created Princess of Rthy for life in 1941.



The non-royal title of Prince (with the style of Highness or Serene Highness) is not granted, however, by the King of the Belgians to commoners who are elevated to the nobility. It is only recognized for Belgian families who already held a princely title, usually in the Holy Roman Empire or the Austrian Netherlands, before the independence of Belgium in 1830/1831. The usual titles of nobility that are still awarded today in Belgium are those of count, viscount and baron.



There is little doubt that Delphine will get recognition as Albert's legal daughter (including the right to use his family name) and a share of his inheritance. Not only is that the normal position now in Belgian law, but also King Albert himself has said through his lawyers that he will no longer dispute the paternity claim in court and will make provisions for Delphine in his will. Anything beyond that is an unreasonable request on Delphine's part, including the demand that she be treated equally as her half-siblings which means:


1. A place in the line of succession to the throne (Delphine would be currently 17th).
2. A title of Princess of Belgium with the style of Royal Highness.
3. A position in the official order of precedence in public and private events in Belgium.
4. An official public role subject to ministerial responsibility.
5. State (i.e taxpayer) funding and access to other privileges such as the right of disposal over assets in the (800-million Euro) Royal Donation Trust including a royal residence belonging to the Trust.


There is no reason why King Philippe should agree to any of the above, nor is he under any obligation to want Delphine as "part of the family" even on an informal basis.
  #1817  
Old 09-13-2020, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
The first part is exactly why I posted what I did. The poster I was responding to repeatedly seems to ignore everything after the 1999 fallout. That is unfair and I just had to say what I did.
The part to which I was responding was
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Don't bother, he truly doesn't see it. My take is that he would gladly have traded places with her and it stings *him* [...]
which gave the impression of an unfair presumption of the feelings of another poster. Had you commented that it is unfair to ignore everything after the 1999 fallout I would have agreed with you.
  #1818  
Old 09-13-2020, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
Does she want succession rights too?
The exact words of her lawyer Marc Uyttendaele, translated into English, were: "She doesn't want to be a cut-price child, she wants to have exactly the same privileges, titles and capacities as her brothers and her sister".

Post #1816 enumerates some of the "privileges, titles, and capacities" which are shared by all three siblings.

Interestingly, the three legal siblings do not have exactly the same privileges, titles and capacities. As crown prince and later king, Philippe has benefited from more expansive privileges, titles, and capacities than his sister and his brother, not least the office of head of state. Under the system of primogeniture, they are, as Mr. Uyttendaele puts it, "cut-price" in comparison to their oldest brother.
  #1819  
Old 09-13-2020, 11:39 AM
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'"Cut-price' child" suggests to me they know exactly what Albert has done with his assets.
  #1820  
Old 09-13-2020, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Maybe.. or maybe she knows they wotn befriend her, feels hurt and wants at least some public recognition and financial recognition because - she thinks it will make up for the fact that her father has treated her so badly. I dont think they will and I think she'd be wiser to settle for a share of his assets when he dies and maybe a polite occasional meeting. They don't have to be best friends.. just an occasional thing. albert is the one hwo is at fault - but it does not seem like he will change at this stage...
They don't owe their father's love child anything.

They have a living mother and Delphine is a constant reminder of Albert's infidelity to her. Why should they betray their loyalty to their mother to make said lovechild feel good about herself?
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