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  #1741  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:26 PM
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An eye-catching, expressive mask Delphine has chosen for the special day today..


** gettyimages gallery: BEL: Delphine BoŽl Appears For The Last Hearing At The Court Of Appeal In Brussels **
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  #1742  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:35 PM
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Apparently 14.000 volunteers of the red cross in Belgium may look forward to receiving a mask with a pattern that was designed by her. This was a hope that Delphine expressed when she presented a painting in the university hospital of Ghent, three days ago. The painting was offered for free. It places a red cross in the center. The cross is surrounded by the word 'love'.

The painting offered to the hospital is number 241 out of aa set of 300 a copies of a larger work by Delphine. It was received by the mayor of Ghent, an alderman of the city and the chairman of the Red Cross. Delphine's speech was done in English.

https://m.hln.be/in-de-buurt/waarsch...gent~a71543a4/
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  #1743  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Hmm, well I'd always thought well of her for saying she didn't want the royal trappings but just to know who her father is....why the sudden change? Or was this her plans all along?
My thought exactly. I rather think that, concerning the Princess title, something changed along the way. I do think that this is an unreasonable request.
From October 29, I would have expected to see "Delphine of Saxe-Coburg" on a genealogy site - I do not expect a HRH Princess Delphine of Saxe-Coburg and it wouldn't surprise me if the Princess title would not be granted.

All in all it's indeed a big mess made by King Albert.
  #1744  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I find this a rather unreasonable request. Although one can only speculate why on earth she wants to use the last name of a father she has been battling with for nearly 2 decades -would her mother's name not be more logical- to be expected to be made a princess of Belgium is a whole other level. I can't imagine she will be made HRH Princess of Belgium but if she is, what will be the next step? Claiming a right to a dotation [since 1993], as Astrid and Laurent?

Her attorney is quoted as arguing that she deserves the same "privileges, titles, and capacities" and should be "treated in the same manner" as her siblings. As Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent all enjoy the "privileges" of a state dotation and residence and the "capacity" of being workings royal, these privileges and capacities are presumably included in her request.

Considering King Philippe's own policies of slimming the number of princes and princesses who work for the monarchy, are state funded, and/or are called "of Belgium", I can only imagine he will not welcome her request.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kalnel View Post
Would the fact that she married a commoner (and without permission) have any bearing on her rights to hold a royal title? I realize that the marriage came before the paternity suit, but I wonder if it would offer a "loophole" for the family refusing to grant her a title.
Probably not. King Leopold II's second marriage to Lilian Baels was not even considered valid in the constitutional sense (though it was valid under civil law), and his children by her are recognized as HRHs and Prince and Princesses of Belgium. Refer to this link for more information: https://www.senate.be/lexdocs/S0509/S05091665.pdf


The argument cited by King Albert II's attorney is that titles are a prerogative of the executive power (i.e. the king and government) and not the courts.

Affaire Delphine BoŽl : la Cour d'appel rendra une dťcision dťfinitive le 29 octobre

The court is expected to issue its ruling on October 29.
  #1745  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:43 PM
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I felt sympathy for Delphine...up to now. She is being unreasonable and silly, and if this is what she was aiming for all along she is also dishonest.
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  #1746  
Old 09-10-2020, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I meant to ask what she might want to bargain down to, since, as you point out, no bargaining is needed for her to receive the share of the estate and the name change.
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Hmm, well I'd always thought well of her for saying she didn't want the royal trappings but just to know who her father is....why the sudden change? Or was this her plans all along?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I find this a rather unreasonable request. Although one can only speculate why on earth she wants to use the last name of a father she has been battling with for nearly 2 decades -would her mother's name not be more logical- to be expected to be made a princess of Belgium is a whole other level. I can't imagine she will be made HRH Princess of Belgium but if she is, what will be the next step? Claiming a right to a dotation [since 1993], as Astrid and Laurent?

Luckily for the court she will not hold these proceedings against her own sibling(s). But who knows what will happen in the future.

What a colossal mistake mess King Albert has made out of this.
There have been rumors (far longer than Delphine's title ones) that Albert has spent much of the past 21 years as he could moving his money around, so that Delphine will not get exactly what Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent do. The statement from her lawyer may just be putting his people on notice. The "title threats" could be something to bargain with.

But then:
-Delphine has of course always said it wasn't about the money (though potentially being cheated is probably another matter...)
-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.

What do you "bargain down to" from HRH Princess and what does Delphine really want? No idea, but I have a suspicion it's "to ensure the BRF can't immediately re-sweep her under the rug" now that the legalities are done. We'll have to see when it actually happens.

Edit: If Delphine's talking about love these days, she's either way more duplicitous than she seems — or she's not in an especially vindictive mood, legalese aside. Imho.
  #1747  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.
If the courts will uphold the argument from her lawyers that it is "unacceptable" for her not to be "treated in the same manner as the other [children]", and the statement is taken literally, the logical conclusion is that King Philippe would be forced to accept her entitlement to royal titles, a state-funded dotation, a residence from the Royal Donation, a role as a working royal, a place in the line of succession, and so forth (unless he chooses to strip these privileges from Astrid or Laurent as well).

Regarding titles, I wonder whether Delphine and her lawyers hold that all other illegitimate children of Belgian noblemen also deserve to inherit the titles of their fathers. If not, then what is their argument for being stricter with ordinary titles of nobility than the titles of the Royal Family?
  #1748  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If the courts will uphold the argument from her lawyers that it is "unacceptable" for her not to be "treated in the same manner as the other [children]", and the statement is taken literally, the logical conclusion is that King Philippe would be forced to accept her entitlement to royal titles, a state-funded dotation, a residence from the Royal Donation, a role as a working royal, a place in the line of succession, and so forth (unless he chooses to strip these privileges from Astrid or Laurent as well).
But royal privilege is a privilege, not a right (and not a legal right). I would think a lawyer would shoot that down exceptionally fast.

Would Philippe's legal immunity not cover the situation as well? If she couldn't get DNA from a sitting Albert, I don't think Philippe can be compelled to recognize or correct anything.
  #1749  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I felt sympathy for Delphine...up to now. She is being unreasonable and silly, and if this is what she was aiming for all along she is also dishonest.
I sympathized with her as well (as made obvious in my previous posts), but when I heard all this new stuff today my view changed.
She had the right to be legalized as King Albert's daughter and to bear his last name (making her Delphine of Saxe-Coburg) and that was what she wanted, but now she is demanding the HRH Princess Delphine stuff.
IMO that goes too far. She is not the same as her half-siblings. Same father, yes, but different mother.
It sounds greedy - grabbing all she can possibly get.

The change of "Jonkvrouw Delphine BoŽl" to "Delphine of Saxe-Coburg" would be enough for me (paternity both biologically and legally settled and the correct last name), but then I don't work for the Court of Appeal.
  #1750  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:47 PM
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I think the one thing that is clear is that she won't be in the line of sucession (like Leopold and Lilian's children) but apart from that, this is a complete and utter mess.

Yet another thing Albert has thrown to his eldest son for him to solve.

What a great "father" this man has been... ¨¨
  #1751  
Old 09-10-2020, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
There have been rumors (far longer than Delphine's title ones) that Albert has spent as much of the past 21 years as he could moving his money around, so that Delphine will not get exactly what Philippe, Astrid, and Laurent do. The statement from her lawyer may just be putting his people on notice. The "title threats" could be something to bargain with.

But then:
-Delphine has of course always said it wasn't about the money (though potentially being cheated is probably another matter...)
-Philippe is the one who would have to give her a title, and no one can make or force him to do that. I think even Delphine is aware of this.

What do you "bargain down to" from HRH Princess and what does Delphine really want? No idea, but I have a suspicion it's "to ensure the BRF can't immediately re-sweep her under the rug" now that the legalities are done. We'll have to see when it actually happens.

Edit: If Delphine's talking about love these days, she's either way more duplicitous than she seems ó or she's not in an especially vindictive mood, legalese aside. Imho.
First he changed his pre-nup, so he and Paola are now in full sharing of everything they both have, so the surviving spouse would get 75% of their assets and it seems like they made a clause for the legitimate born children of their marriage to receive more than other children born out of it.

Also, weren't they giving away properties to their grandchildren already? I know they gave the twins something in Belgium and I heard rumors that both Amedeo and Elisabeth have already received something as well (for his wedding and for her 18th birthday).
  #1752  
Old 09-10-2020, 06:09 PM
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I agree after what Delphine said in the past to now seems way out of place....now to gain the title HRH/Princess. I still would like to give her a chance....what happened, what changed, who advised her to ask/request/somewhat demand a title. Why did the Former King stop fighting. To be a fly on the wall to know what is going on behind the scenes. Will we ever know?
  #1753  
Old 09-10-2020, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The general rule of the Belgian nobility is that titles are only recognized for descendants in legitimate male line, though special remainders have occasionally been granted. I am not sure of the particulars of law - as a matter of fact, there seems to be some confusion around what legislation the rule is founded on.
Wouldn't this principle hold for royal titles as well? And if not, I would imagine the rules for royal titles to be stricter not less strict.

So, I agree with many that Delphine is overplaying her hand with her latest requests. There is no reason at all that the state should fund in any way shape or form Albert's off-spring outside of his recognized marriage. I personally don't think she should get a royal title but in that case she could probably claim that Leopold's younger children got it as well, while there were some troubles with the legalities of that marriage as well. I guess, if she gets her title, she also wants a title for her children - because they are also the king's grandchildren...
  #1754  
Old 09-10-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippy View Post
Hmm, I suppose that King Albert's biological recognition did set something in motion with her concerning her wanted last name and titles.......
So her goal is apparently HRH Princess Delphine of Saxe-Coburg, I think? Now, with the biological admission already there, she wants the complete package, it seems. Wanting is one, granting is two and I'm not sure how I feel about this. It does seem a change of attitude.

I thought she only wanted the legal recognition and the last name, then I suppose that I was wrong and Mbruno was right about this.

Anyway, I understand that the court will pronounce the verdict within a month. So we'll see.

But in any case/way: this whole trial is over now.

That doesn't surprise me at all. I have said all along that she would go for a title (HRH Princess) and full membership of the RF. But most posters here didn't believe it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
Wouldn't this principle hold for royal titles as well? And if not, I would imagine the rules for royal titles to be stricter not less strict.

So, I agree with many that Delphine is overplaying her hand with her latest requests. There is no reason at all that the state should fund in any way shape or form Albert's off-spring outside of his recognized marriage. I personally don't think she should get a royal title but in that case she could probably claim that Leopold's younger children got it as well, while there were some troubles with the legalities of that marriage as well. I guess, if she gets her title, she also wants a title for her children - because they are also the king's grandchildren...

The situation is different. Lťopold was legally married to Lilian when she gave birth to their children.
  #1755  
Old 09-10-2020, 07:57 PM
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I have always questioned her motives, it seems I was right
  #1756  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:18 AM
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I am completely supportive of a person's right to know her biological parents. However in this particular case, it seems to me motives are questionable to say the least. If knowing who she was was her real goal, she would have stopped there. Yet she didn't.
  #1757  
Old 09-11-2020, 03:49 AM
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I honestly don't know her motives, whether she's trying to call their bluff and bargain down or sincerely wants/believes she can be HRH Princess of Belgium with everything that it comes with it and always thought that way. The former sounds more plausible than the latter considering she doesn't seem like a stupid woman.

I know it's not the same thing but in a world where we acknowledge it's completely acceptable for families who's inherited titles lost any legality or significance over 100 years ago to still cling fiercely to them and talk about how it's "not just about the law, it's something inherent to our family" without their motives being (too) questioned, I can see illegitimate children being "he's my father too, all this illustrious history is mine too, why shouldn't I get a title too?"

So whilst I think she's overstepping, I don't see it as an outrage or proof that she was always in bad faith. It's still not as if she asked to be born. I do feel sorry for Phillippe having to deal with it all as well as his and his siblings personal feelings about the situation.
  #1758  
Old 09-11-2020, 04:29 AM
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https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf202...BC6FC401E6FB0B

So according to WD, she never wanted the titles or recognition until January when the DNA tests were out and Albert outright refused to acknowledge himself? Just released a press note and that was it, so she got mad and decided to continue with this until its last consequences.

I don't know, something is not really adding up right now, she's definitely out for revenge but always showed herself in a different way until this point.

She's not really thinking of her kids either IMO, they will definitely be caught in the crossfire and will of course not benefit from this at all, I really doubt they'd even get to meet their uncles and aunt or their cousins for example.
  #1759  
Old 09-11-2020, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I honestly don't know her motives, whether she's trying to call their bluff and bargain down or sincerely wants/believes she can be HRH Princess of Belgium with everything that it comes with it and always thought that way. The former sounds more plausible than the latter considering she doesn't seem like a stupid woman.

I know it's not the same thing but in a world where we acknowledge it's completely acceptable for families who's inherited titles lost any legality or significance over 100 years ago to still cling fiercely to them and talk about how it's "not just about the law, it's something inherent to our family"
That is not the case for noble or royal titles, both of which are legally recognized and protected by law. And they are still significant. In the case of royal titles, they are even associated with an official public role and, in the case of Belgium, even state funding and other prerogatives as laid out by Tatiana Maria such as a residence from the Royal Donation Trust, etc.



It is quite obvious that Mme. BoŽl would not have given up the BoŽl inheritance if her lawyers had not persuaded her instead that she had a credible chance of a bigger prize, i.e. the full prerogatives of a princess of Belgium.


Quote:
Originally Posted by leidi View Post
https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf202...BC6FC401E6FB0B

So according to WD, she never wanted the titles or recognition until January when the DNA tests were out and Albert outright refused to acknowledge himself? Just released a press note and that was it, so she got mad and decided to continue with this until its last consequences.

When the DNA tests were made public, King Albert issued a note acknowledging Delphine was his daughter and saying that he would make provisions for her in his will. In fact, he is no longer questioning in court Delphine's demand that he be recognized as her legal father. So I don't know what WD is talking about.


Of course, after repeatedly saying that she had no interest in money or titles, she has to come up with some far-fetched excuse to justify why she has made a U-turn now and is asking for both titles and money.
  #1760  
Old 09-11-2020, 07:35 AM
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The is the never ending story.

Having had empathy for Delphine BoŽl I find I'm now wondering what is her goal?
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