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  #1461  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
How should Delphine have handled this in order Ďto have a, presumably warm, relationship with her biological father and half siblingsí...?

If Albert had immediately admitted to what everyone already assumed or knew to be true, years of struggle, embarrassment, and misery could have been avoided. I donít see what she did wrong; it was her father who lied, obfuscated, postponed! If she were my sister, I would want to get to know her, not blame her for what created the problem.
You can't force people to like you or welcome you, no matter how much you might want them to. I'm not honestly sure there was anything she could have done that would have brought about a good relationship with them. However, handling this quietly and not dragging it through the courts might have gone a long way in earning their trust and respect. Nothing about the way that Albert has behaved in any of this is okay. But making a massive public spectacle of this with no real goal other than to force him to "say uncle" really isn't the way to go about forming what, I assume, she would hope is a good relationship with any of them. I assume that she was hoping for a warm relationship rather than a tense and uncomfortable or nonexistent relationship and so while this mess really is Albert's fault, making it a public spectacle, particularly without a tangible goal, is something that Delphine had control over and she couldn't or shouldn't have expected it to endear her to Albert or his other three children.
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  #1462  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
You can't force people to like you or welcome you, no matter how much you might want them to. I'm not honestly sure there was anything she could have done that would have brought about a good relationship with them. However, handling this quietly and not dragging it through the courts might have gone a long way in earning their trust and respect. Nothing about the way that Albert has behaved in any of this is okay. But making a massive public spectacle of this with no real goal other than to force him to "say uncle" really isn't the way to go about forming what, I assume, she would hope is a good relationship with any of them. I assume that she was hoping for a warm relationship rather than a tense and uncomfortable or nonexistent relationship and so while this mess really is Albert's fault, making it a public spectacle, particularly without a tangible goal, is something that Delphine had control over and she couldn't or shouldn't have expected it to endear her to Albert or his other three children.
She wanted him to acknowledge her as his daugther.. I don't blame her. I don't think she seriously expects to have a relationship with the siblings but the fault is with Albert for not admitting at first that she was his child...He seems to have been a horribly selfish man, not a good father to his legitimate children, forcing them to see him quarrelign with his wife.. or missing...Delphine is not the one at fault here.
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  #1463  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She wanted him to acknowledge her as his daugther.. I don't blame her. I don't think she seriously expects to have a relationship with the siblings but the fault is with Albert for not admitting at first that she was his child...He seems to have been a horribly selfish man, not a good father to his legitimate children, forcing them to see him quarrelign with his wife.. or missing...Delphine is not the one at fault here.
But he has lived happily with his wife Paola since then . I canít comment on his relationship with his children because I know nothing about it besides gossip in the press.
  #1464  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She wanted him to acknowledge her as his daugther.. I don't blame her. I don't think she seriously expects to have a relationship with the siblings but the fault is with Albert for not admitting at first that she was his child...He seems to have been a horribly selfish man, not a good father to his legitimate children, forcing them to see him quarrelign with his wife.. or missing...Delphine is not the one at fault here.
I noted multiple times that Albert was a disastrous father. And that's true not only for her but for all of his children. And I noted that this whole mess can be laid at his doorstep. But, I really hope that the satisfaction of forcing him to publicly say "I give, it's my DNA" is really enough to satisfy her because it seems that's really all she'll get out of this. And frankly, that seems like an awfully small win for all the havoc this has caused.
  #1465  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
You have really done a wonderful job in explaining what I have been wondering myself. I have so many questions (that of course are none of my business and will probably never get answered). What really started all of this? Why turn your back on a stepfather that took care of you and gave you his name? What do you hope to accomplish? 10-15 years down the road, what have you gained my this, a small inheritance from the former King of Belgium? Was it worth it? A father so that you can know your identity? So many questions that will never have answers.
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
She wants recognition Her stepfather didn't take care of her.. he gave her his name and that was all.. and her blood father, who did play the part of a father to her as a chld, turned on her and disowned her. I don't blame her for being hurt and angry. I doubt if it is about money...

Regarding Jacques BoŽl, he was not Delphine's stepfather, but her father from birth. Being the man married to Delphine's mother at the moment of Delphine's birth, he was automatically established as the legal father of her child, as was (and still is) mandated by the law.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Die...and/Afstamming

That is the reason the courts were unable to consider Albert's paternity until now: So long as Jacques remained the legal father, the law did not allow for the recognition of a second father.

Per the accounts of Delphine and her lawyers, Jacques was an absent father who never cared for his daughter, nor did he behave affectionately towards her. In the interview linked in message #1447, Delphine's lawyer states: "Because after all, she had a legal father, who in the general interest accepted a faÁade, but he did not give her any fatherly affection."

It seems a distinct possibility that from her point of view, her cutting of ties with her former father was a reaction to him turning his back on her.

Regarding King Albert II, Delphine has disclosed that she was not told that he was her father until the age of 18.
  #1466  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I suppose it might be nice in some ways if this would draw them closer together. However, I suspect that the exact opposite will be true. I suspect that there will be a lot of anger and hurt and resentment and many, many people including members of the family will not look upon this fondly. It will be seen as unnecessary and the question will be asked "what did she hope to get from all of this?" And frankly, it's a legitimate question. It had to have been made clear that even if she were proven to be his biological daughter and even if he had to make some sort of statement about it that she was illegitimate and therefore would receive no title and no place in the line of succession and no actual standing a member of the royal family. No acknowledgement of fact can force the family to embrace her and they might see this as causing much unnecessary publicity. Acknowledgement of fact also does not mean that she has to be given anything in the will, she can be excluded from the will if Albert so chooses. I suspect that rather than embracing her she may well find that the family views her as a troublemaker and a bit of a boil rather than a newly found family member.
I'm afraid you might be right. It'll be understandable for the Belgian RF to not be pleased by the new outcome and for a few feathers to be ruffled, but as someone who is in a similar position to Delphine personally it would be nice for her to at least be able to see Albert more regularly.
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  #1467  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Regarding Jacques BoŽl, he was not Delphine's stepfather, but her father from birth. Being the man married to Delphine's mother at the moment of Delphine's birth, he was automatically established as the legal father of her child, as was (and still is) mandated by the law.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Die...and/Afstamming

That is the reason the courts were unable to consider Albert's paternity until now: So long as Jacques remained the legal father, the law did not allow for the recognition of a second father.

Per the accounts of Delphine and her lawyers, Jacques was an absent father who never cared for his daughter, nor did he behave affectionately towards her. In the interview linked in message #1447, Delphine's lawyer states: "Because after all, she had a legal father, who in the general interest accepted a faÁade, but he did not give her any fatherly affection."

It seems a distinct possibility that from her point of view, her cutting of ties with her former father was a reaction to him turning his back on her.

Regarding King Albert II, Delphine has disclosed that she was not told that he was her father until the age of 18.
As I've noted before, I'm not familiar with Belgian law. However, I've gathered from other posters here that as long as Jacques Boel remained her legal father then she was entitled to a portion of his quite considerable estate at the time of his death. Is this correct? And this would be regardless of whether he was an absent father or a fabulous father, correct? So if I'm understanding it all correctly, she could have remained the legal daughter of Jacques Boel and profited substantially at the time of his eventual death and even though he knew that she was not biologically his child he allowed that to happen and continue knowing that a part of his estate would become hers. So, even though he may have been absent and non-affectionate he was presumably willing to provide her a substantial inheritance and, I assume, provided financially for her throughout childhood. Then she chose to cut ties with him and remove her legal status as his daughter in order to then publicly fight for nothing more than a very cold and distant "yes, it's my DNA" from yet another man who quite clearly had no intention of offering love and warmth and affection? It sadly appears that Ms. Boel is looking for a loving and affectionate father figure and while that's understandable, she had to have known that would not be the result of all this. I'm unfamiliar with Ms. Boel's mother and whether she is still alive but I'm curious what her reaction to all of this has been.
  #1468  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I'm afraid you might be right. It'll be understandable for the Belgian RF to not be pleased by the new outcome and for a few feathers to be ruffled, but as someone who is in a similar position to Delphine personally it would be nice for her to at least be able to see Albert more regularly.
I completely understand what you're saying here. However, I really do have to ask, would it be nice for her to at least be able to see Albert more often? I understand the desire to know where you come from but I don't think it would be nice for her to see him more often when it's been made quite clear that he's only acknowledging her DNA makeup because he was basically forced to and that he only very begrudgingly made his statement and doesn't regard her as his child or a member of his family. I can't imagine wanting to see someone or spend time with someone who very much wishes you'd disappear and not be a thorn in his side. That doesn't seem even remotely conducive to a pleasant encounter.
  #1469  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
You can't force people to like you or welcome you, no matter how much you might want them to. I'm not honestly sure there was anything she could have done that would have brought about a good relationship with them. However, handling this quietly and not dragging it through the courts might have gone a long way in earning their trust and respect. Nothing about the way that Albert has behaved in any of this is okay. But making a massive public spectacle of this with no real goal other than to force him to "say uncle" really isn't the way to go about forming what, I assume, she would hope is a good relationship with any of them. I assume that she was hoping for a warm relationship rather than a tense and uncomfortable or nonexistent relationship and so while this mess really is Albert's fault, making it a public spectacle, particularly without a tangible goal, is something that Delphine had control over and she couldn't or shouldn't have expected it to endear her to Albert or his other three children.
Albert turned it into a public spectacle .
  #1470  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I completely understand what you're saying here. However, I really do have to ask, would it be nice for her to at least be able to see Albert more often? I understand the desire to know where you come from but I don't think it would be nice for her to see him more often when it's been made quite clear that he's only acknowledging her DNA makeup because he was basically forced to and that he only very begrudgingly made his statement and doesn't regard her as his child or a member of his family. I can't imagine wanting to see someone or spend time with someone who very much wishes you'd disappear and not be a thorn in his side. That doesn't seem even remotely conducive to a pleasant encounter.
From what I read Delphine BoŽl is under no illusion that she will be able to see Albert or have a pleasant encounter/ relationship with him. A good friend of her - a gallery holder in Antwerp- said as much to Het Nieuwsblad, as did her lawyers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno
I can’t comment on his relationship with his children because I know nothing about it besides gossip in the press.
Laurent compared his father (and uncle) to the Stasi, which I imagine was not meant as a compliment.

-----
Tonight the commercial broadcaster VIER has repeated the two episode 2013 interview 'Onze dochter heet Delphine' (our daughter is named Delphine) with Bss Sybille de Selys-Longchamps. Albert once told her that 'the cardinal' told him not to see Delphine anymore. After some confusion the cardinal was the -in the Belgian RF- omnipresent Cardinal Suenens. She blames 'extreme religiosity' for Albert's decision and does not think Paola was behind it.

https://www.vier.be/video/onze-docht...aflevering-1-2

The documentary is available after email registration. The interview is conducted in French.
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  #1471  
Old 01-29-2020, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
As I've noted before, I'm not familiar with Belgian law. However, I've gathered from other posters here that as long as Jacques Boel remained her legal father then she was entitled to a portion of his quite considerable estate at the time of his death. Is this correct? And this would be regardless of whether he was an absent father or a fabulous father, correct? So if I'm understanding it all correctly, she could have remained the legal daughter of Jacques Boel and profited substantially at the time of his eventual death and even though he knew that she was not biologically his child he allowed that to happen and continue knowing that a part of his estate would become hers. So, even though he may have been absent and non-affectionate he was presumably willing to provide her a substantial inheritance and, I assume, provided financially for her throughout childhood. Then she chose to cut ties with him and remove her legal status as his daughter in order to then publicly fight for nothing more than a very cold and distant "yes, it's my DNA" from yet another man who quite clearly had no intention of offering love and warmth and affection? It sadly appears that Ms. Boel is looking for a loving and affectionate father figure and while that's understandable, she had to have known that would not be the result of all this. I'm unfamiliar with Ms. Boel's mother and whether she is still alive but I'm curious what her reaction to all of this has been.
Sybille is alive and has given vocal support to her daughter in the past in this.

She returned to Belgium in the 90s after the death of her second husband who she married when Delphine was 14.

As for Jaques I donít think anyone can blame him if he wasnít a doting father figure. He is in the same shoes as Paola. Faced with a child their spouse conceived while married to them. He was her father simply as he didnít divorce her mother for years. And if true they Albert was involved with Delphine those early years even more reason. I donít think anyone can expect him or Paola to welcome her with open arms as family. Some people do but itís not reasonable to just automatically expect it either.

I look at Albert of Monaco and his own disputes over paternity of his children. He has a relationship with both now. As do his children with his wife and his extended family. But they were also not conceived while Albert was married. Charlene isnít faced with children her husband fathered while together.

Philippe and his siblings would it be nice if they reached out? Sure. Maybe not embrace her as a sister but as family of sorts. If younger Iíd think they may ignore her out of loyalty to Paola. But would think as adults that would be less a concern to them. Maybe when the legal drama ends and things quiet they may reach out. I donít expect her at public family events and such but perhaps at least opening communication.
  #1472  
Old 01-29-2020, 07:51 PM
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I would be surprised too if she was taking part in any family gathering, official or not.
  #1473  
Old 01-29-2020, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by rominet09 View Post
I would be surprised too if she was taking part in any family gathering, official or not.
In those cases, in many families, children tend to reject their half-siblings out of loyalty to their mother. I am inclined to believe Princess Astrid feels that way and will distance herself from Delphine. Prince Laurent might reach out to her though as a rebellion against his parents and his brother.

As for King Philippe, I think the situation is more delicate for him because he is the King. Many Kings in the past had illegitimate children. In fact, as late as the 19th century at least , that was very common in Europe and socially acceptable. Most often, those illegitimate children were accorded honors, titles and a place in the court. They were not rejected or treated as social outcasts. However, a clear line was drawn between them and the reigning dynasty as there was also a clear line between the Queen consort and the King’s mistresses.

The fact that Belgian law , or at least the Civil Code , now equates legal recognition of paternity to legitimization and extends to the legitimized children the same rights as those enjoyed by the children born in wedlock ( including sharing the father’s name) blurries that line.

As Tatiana Maria argued, it is unclear what effect legitimization in civil law would have on Delphine’s constitutional position , but, as King, Philippe has to take the preservation of the integrity of the dynasty into account. Once illegitimate children start to share the names and titles of their biological fathers, the whole system of hereditary nobility or even royalty is challenged and that is undesirable.

On the other hand, however, there are political constraints too as public opinion may turn favorable to Delphine , putting pressure on the King to reach out to her.
  #1474  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:10 AM
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Do you think that the siblings will wait with establishing contact until after A&P gave died?
  #1475  
Old 01-30-2020, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I completely understand what you're saying here. However, I really do have to ask, would it be nice for her to at least be able to see Albert more often? I understand the desire to know where you come from but I don't think it would be nice for her to see him more often when it's been made quite clear that he's only acknowledging her DNA makeup because he was basically forced to and that he only very begrudgingly made his statement and doesn't regard her as his child or a member of his family. I can't imagine wanting to see someone or spend time with someone who very much wishes you'd disappear and not be a thorn in his side. That doesn't seem even remotely conducive to a pleasant encounter.
I can't imagene that she expected a pleasant encounter. He could have acknowledged her years ago, It is painful to his wife perhaps but she knows about the affair... and it is in the past. I think that is all Delphine is after... after being rejected by her father, she just wants him to admit that she is his.
  #1476  
Old 01-30-2020, 05:10 AM
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I don't think Delphine is still thinking of being accepted by her half-siblings more so by her father. She just wants the former King to acknowledge her as his. That's it.

I am more curious now if she's able to get a portion of the former King's fortune.
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  #1477  
Old 01-30-2020, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by theroyalfly View Post
I don't think Delphine is still thinking of being accepted by her half-siblings more so by her father. She just wants the former King to acknowledge her as his. That's it.

I am more curious now if she's able to get a portion of the former King's fortune.
If she just wanted the former king to acknowledge her, which he has already done BTW, she would drop her bid to be legally recognized as his daughter in the courts. Since she did not do that, I am left with no other alternative but to conclude that , in addition to acknowledgment, she is looking for legitimization and, by extension, everything that legitimization might imply in law.
  #1478  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
As for Jaques I donít think anyone can blame him if he wasnít a doting father figure. He is in the same shoes as Paola. Faced with a child their spouse conceived while married to them. He was her father simply as he didnít divorce her mother for years. And if true they Albert was involved with Delphine those early years even more reason. I donít think anyone can expect him or Paola to welcome her with open arms as family. Some people do but itís not reasonable to just automatically expect it either.

Philippe and his siblings would it be nice if they reached out? Sure. Maybe not embrace her as a sister but as family of sorts. If younger Iíd think they may ignore her out of loyalty to Paola. But would think as adults that would be less a concern to them. Maybe when the legal drama ends and things quiet they may reach out. I donít expect her at public family events and such but perhaps at least opening communication.
I agree. I can't imagine why anyone would just expect either Jacques or Paola to be welcoming and warm to Delphine. However, I do think it speaks well of Jacques' character that rather than divorcing her mother during the months of her pregnancy he allowed himself to be named as the legal father and apparently accepted what came with that in the way of inheritance laws, etc. He didn't have to (although I have read that he may have done so out of a desire to keep his business contacts intact) but he did. Frankly I'm surprised at the notion that I've seen posted here that the half-siblings should welcome her with open arms. Sure it would be nice for her if they did. However, what would be nice and what is reality are not always the same things. I'd be surprised if either of the step-parents, the half-siblings, or even the begrudging father are warm, welcoming, accepting, or even cordial.
  #1479  
Old 01-30-2020, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If she just wanted the former king to acknowledge her, which he has already done BTW, she would drop her bid to be legally recognized as his daughter in the courts. Since she did not do that, I am left with no other alternative but to conclude that , in addition to acknowledgment, she is looking for legitimization and, by extension, everything that legitimization might imply in law.
I tend to agree with you. However, what exactly does legitimization imply? It's my understanding that it definitely includes the right to use Albert's last name as well as entitles her to a portion of his estate upon his death. However, it's my understanding that it hasn't been clearly spelled out whether or not legitimization would include a title or a standing in the RF. Is that correct?
  #1480  
Old 01-30-2020, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I tend to agree with you. However, what exactly does legitimization imply? It's my understanding that it definitely includes the right to use Albert's last name as well as entitles her to a portion of his estate upon his death. However, it's my understanding that it hasn't been clearly spelled out whether or not legitimization would include a title or a standing in the RF. Is that correct?
I can't see that it would work like that, Royal titles are dependent on legitimacy.. by birth. I think Delphine is morally entitled to her father recognising her and admitting that he's stalled and lied but she is his daughter.. and laeving her some money, but I don't see that shes entitled to be a Princess.
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