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  #1421  
Old 01-28-2020, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
It explains a lot on the strained relationships in this unhappy RF.

True, but the current Belgian Royal Family(Philippe, Mathilde and their four children) appear to be one of the happiest and most stable in Europe.

It is the previous generation that sounds like a gothic nightmare of dysfunction.
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  #1422  
Old 01-28-2020, 04:37 PM
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It's sad that Delphine had to be estranged from the family and as others said, she missed a chance to have a childhood with her siblings and father as a result. I hope this acknowledgement will draw her closer to the family in some way.
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  #1423  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:00 PM
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I don't really see why she would have a relationship with her father's children.. they are a separate issue.. but for him to treat her as a daughter for a time and then drop her is not right.
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  #1424  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Well, I hate to be a contrarian and I am pretty sure I will be accused of conservatism,but the fact that she is the biological daughter of Albert II doesn't imply that she is a member of the Royal Family (i.e. the family of the legitimate descendants of Leopold I in male line up to Albert II and in both paternal and maternal line thereafter).

I don't see why the RF should be under any obligation to embrace Delphine or have a relationship with her and I hope that the King, if it comes to that, will fight any legal attempt to give Delphine a royal title or a place in the line of succession.
I would agree with this completely. Royal families are families but they're also firms and organizations and a legal ruling of paternity doesn't in any way mean that she should now be given a title or a place in the line of succession. Though it is my understanding that it's been made clear that this is not anticipated to be an issue and has been clear none of those things will be forthcoming.

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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
It's sad that Delphine had to be estranged from the family and as others said, she missed a chance to have a childhood with her siblings and father as a result. I hope this acknowledgement will draw her closer to the family in some way.
I suppose it might be nice in some ways if this would draw them closer together. However, I suspect that the exact opposite will be true. I suspect that there will be a lot of anger and hurt and resentment and many, many people including members of the family will not look upon this fondly. It will be seen as unnecessary and the question will be asked "what did she hope to get from all of this?" And frankly, it's a legitimate question. It had to have been made clear that even if she were proven to be his biological daughter and even if he had to make some sort of statement about it that she was illegitimate and therefore would receive no title and no place in the line of succession and no actual standing a member of the royal family. No acknowledgement of fact can force the family to embrace her and they might see this as causing much unnecessary publicity. Acknowledgement of fact also does not mean that she has to be given anything in the will, she can be excluded from the will if Albert so chooses. I suspect that rather than embracing her she may well find that the family views her as a troublemaker and a bit of a boil rather than a newly found family member.
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  #1425  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I would agree with this completely. Royal families are families but they're also firms and organizations and a legal ruling of paternity doesn't in any way mean that she should now be given a title or a place in the line of succession. Though it is my understanding that it's been made clear that this is not anticipated to be an issue and has been clear none of those things will be forthcoming.



I suppose it might be nice in some ways if this would draw them closer together. However, I suspect that the exact opposite will be true. I suspect that there will be a lot of anger and hurt and resentment and many, many people including members of the family will not look upon this fondly. It will be seen as unnecessary and the question will be asked "what did she hope to get from all of this?" And frankly, it's a legitimate question. It had to have been made clear that even if she were proven to be his biological daughter and even if he had to make some sort of statement about it that she was illegitimate and therefore would receive no title and no place in the line of succession and no actual standing a member of the royal family. No acknowledgement of fact can force the family to embrace her and they might see this as causing much unnecessary publicity. Acknowledgement of fact also does not mean that she has to be given anything in the will, she can be excluded from the will if Albert so chooses. I suspect that rather than embracing her she may well find that the family views her as a troublemaker and a bit of a boil rather than a newly found family member.
I don't think it was very wise of her to pursue this case, but Albert was clearly a horrible father...
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  #1426  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't think it was very wise of her to pursue this case, but Albert was clearly a horrible father...
I agree that he was a horrible father. However, it seems that it was made clear that she shouldn't really expect to "get" anything from this even if he was made to acknowledge that he is her biological parent. In some ways this seems as though she did all of this for nothing more than to stick it to him. Granted, he was a horrible father and has behaved abominably since this all began 50ish years ago but that doesn't change the fact that this has all been for what? Nothing more than the satisfaction of forcing him to admit publicly that he fathered a child he then wanted nothing to do with and dragging him through the mud publicly? I mean, I guess if that's really the kind of person she wants to be portrayed as then more power to her but given that it doesn't result in any kind of gain and does result in a loss of massive attorney fees and stress it doesn't really seem like great motivation.
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  #1427  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I agree that he was a horrible father. However, it seems that it was made clear that she shouldn't really expect to "get" anything from this even if he was made to acknowledge that he is her biological parent. In some ways this seems as though she did all of this for nothing more than to stick it to him. Granted, he was a horrible father and has behaved abominably since this all began 50ish years ago but that doesn't change the fact that this has all been for what? Nothing more than the satisfaction of forcing him to admit publicly that he fathered a child he then wanted nothing to do with and dragging him through the mud publicly? I mean, I guess if that's really the kind of person she wants to be portrayed as then more power to her but given that it doesn't result in any kind of gain and does result in a loss of massive attorney fees and stress it doesn't really seem like great motivation.
Im not overly sympathetic -and she certainly isn't going to be a Princess or to have a relationship with her siblings
but the woman was clearly hurt by his treating her as his child for years and then turning on her. It sounds like he wasn't a great father to his other children either. If he had just walked out on her and her mother when she was born, it would be unpleasant, cruel..but not that unknown. If that happened, someone might just never want to hear or see their father ever...
but to be a dad to her and then turn against her, seems to me horrible. I can understand that she did feel hurt and anger and maybe unwisely wanted to make him acknowledge her...
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  #1428  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:41 PM
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I have always struggled to understand why Delphine has been so eager to get Albert to recognise her as his daughter. To me family is what you make it, I have a lot of friends (i.e. family friends who've known me since birth) who I see more as family than some of the many cousins I have. I have a half sister who sees my father as her own and when it came to her wedding and everyone asked who was going to walk her down the aisle she replied - "my father - the man who taught me to be a good person, to love, to pick myself up when I fell down - not the one who has simply sends me the odd cheque and things he has done his part". Of course she meant my father, her step-father, but he had been her father figure since she was 4 years old and to her it seemed odd anyone should expect it otherwise.

Likewise, I don't see why Delphine is so eager to be formally recognised as the daughter or someone who clearly has no interest in being anything like a father to her. I understand the desire to be proven correct when you've been shouted down for telling the truth so long but at the end of this I'm not sure she personally has come out of it any better.

I really don't think she can have any expectation to be part of the RF officially, she is part of Albert's family but that is it. At this point in their lives it is unrealistic to expect Philippe and his siblings to decide to welcome her with open arms when they have their own lives and duties to get on with. (not that there needs to be any ill feeling necessarily either)
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  #1429  
Old 01-28-2020, 05:49 PM
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Iím sure we all know families who have children out of wedlock...

...some of them because a PARENT has strayed.
Not a single one of the babies, children, young adults, or mature grown-ups- were responsible for the circumstances of their birth.
So the disdainful neglect by the ex -King and his wife, and the larger public, and perhaps her half siblings, how can this be acceptable? King Philippe and his Queen seem to be serious, thoughtful, and kind people. Surely the tenets of their religion do not encourage the shunning of their sister. They should open their arms and hearts to Delphine, who only wanted to know who her father is, and who gave him ample opportunity to acknowledge her quietly.

(My mother was an adopted child in the early decades of the last century. She accidentally found that she was adopted, and she was able to track down her birth father. She didn’t want anything from him but to know who he was. Not only did he embrace her, but so did his wife and children. Although she never lived with or near him, there was a cordial relationship that continued between Mother and his family, after he died, and until she died. I found many letters between her and her half-siblings after she passed away. And she and her adoptive parents were close for every minute of their lives.

If Depression-poor people in the rural South were able to behave with dignity and righteous nobility, why shouldn’t a wealthy and prominent family behave at least that well?)
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  #1430  
Old 01-28-2020, 06:29 PM
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I have not read or heard one word in the Belgian written press or on the Belgian televised media that has in any way tried to discredit the motives of Delphine BoŽl. It is widely agreed that money was not the motive. Neither was name-recognition. A newspaper even wielded out an art expert who said that this case will have no effect on the value of her art-work as collectors in that niche will not be interested in her name but in the quality of the work (which the expert didn't find very impressive). The idea that Delphine will be somehow a part of the RF is not credible. As Het Nieuwsblad stated: "nobody expects her to be present at this years christmas concert, least of all she herself".

Her fight for recognition and perhaps for identity has been judged as a reasonable and legitimate motivation, but perhaps the members of the Belgian press are less cynical than some of us.

Several publications mention that it is positive that is has been made evident that the law is equal for all, even for a former King. Albert II now has to face the consequences of his actions, as we all need to do. Much of his reputation was already in tatters but yesterday's cold hearted statement crushed whatever shred of dignity he had left.

Some newspapers have expressed great regret that Albert indulged in denying reality. It overshadows a successful reign of an amiable man who was generally well-liked and even loved. Politicians were relieved to work with him as his style was very different and more suited to this day and age than that of his brother. De Standaard added that next to Albert ironically Delphine is the most charismatic 'member' of the family. Several newspapers compared his behavior unfavorably to that of President Mitterrand of France. How different this all could have been if Albert -and Paola- hadn't buried their heads in the sand in 1999.
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  #1431  
Old 01-28-2020, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Just as a clarification: King Albert II has simply released an informal statement acknowledging that Mrs. Delphine BoŽl is his biological daughter. As noted in some of the articles (see Marengo's post: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2288648), Delphine has not (yet) become the legal daughter of Albert. That will still require Mrs. BoŽl to seek a determination from a court.

And the next hearing in court is listed for June 4. On that day the Brussels Court of Appeal will hear Delphine BoŽl's application for legal recognition as the daughter of King Albert II. Following the hearing, the court will hand down its verdict within 30 days.

Ms. BoŽl's lawyer Marc Uyttendaele commented to add that King Albert II has also the option to (legally) recognize Delphine before the hearing on June 4. If he would take that option, the court case would be declared closed at the hearing.

Source:
https://www.lalibre.be/belgique/soci...ad586cd5b861aa

More information on the procedure King Albert could use to voluntarily grant legal recognition to Delphine:
https://diplomatie.belgium.be/nl/Die...and/Afstamming


I wonder if King Albert will undertake legal recognition himself, or if he will wait for the Court of Appeal to make the decision for him in June.
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  #1432  
Old 01-28-2020, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
True, but the current Belgian Royal Family(Philippe, Mathilde and their four children) appear to be one of the happiest and most stable in Europe.

It is the previous generation that sounds like a gothic nightmare of dysfunction.
Prompted by your observation; just a gentle reminder that it is not the previous generation's lot to be 'dysfunctional'; rather the tragic loss of 29 year old Queen Astrid in 1935 that forever scarred her young family-Baudoin was only 4 years old at the time and Albert at 18 months has no memory of his mother at all. King Leopold, driving the car that killed his wife, escaped unharmed and forever carried survivors' guilt that must have left a deep imprint upon this sad family.
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  #1433  
Old 01-28-2020, 09:35 PM
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There have been many comments on King Albert's attitude as a father and many adjectives were used bad, horrible etc. Personally i think he was a total non-father, indifferent.
While I totally understand Delphine's desire for some form of recognition i am afraid in this whole saga there is one individual who has been hurt badly: Jacques Boel who acted as a father many years. At some point (we don't really know when) he suspected or knew he is not the biological father but he carried on as her father, very dignified -at least publicly. Sadly I think Delphine's quest - however legitimate- has served Mr Boel a very public rejection and humiliation he didn't deserve.
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  #1434  
Old 01-28-2020, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
There have been many comments on King Albert's attitude as a father and many adjectives were used bad, horrible etc. Personally i think he was a total non-father, indifferent.
While I totally understand Delphine's desire for some form of recognition i am afraid in this whole saga there is one individual who has been hurt badly: Jacques Boel who acted as a father many years. At some point (we don't really know when) he suspected or knew he is not the biological father but he carried on as her father, very dignified -at least publicly. Sadly I think Delphine's quest - however legitimate- has served Mr Boel a very public rejection and humiliation he didn't deserve.
Jacques BoŽl and Sybille de Selys Longchamps were already living separately by the time Delphine was born. He did not act as a father figure.
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  #1435  
Old 01-29-2020, 01:09 AM
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Indeed. HLN printed an article about him. They claim that the only reason he accepted paternity was to evade a public scandal. On the VRT-website Finance journalist Ludwig Verduyn adds that BoŽl wanted to keep a good relationship with the palace due to his business contacts. It was clear to him that he was not Delphine's father and he never acted as one. Contact between the two was minimal.

----
In the city of Gent residents now formally filed a request to name a park the 'Park Delphine BoŽl'. The park already received that name unofficially during a neighborhood party in an attempt to create more street names that are named after women.

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2020/01...-na-erkenning/
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  #1436  
Old 01-29-2020, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by altagrace View Post
There have been many comments on King Albert's attitude as a father and many adjectives were used bad, horrible etc. Personally i think he was a total non-father, indifferent.
While I totally understand Delphine's desire for some form of recognition i am afraid in this whole saga there is one individual who has been hurt badly: Jacques Boel who acted as a father many years. At some point (we don't really know when) he suspected or knew he is not the biological father but he carried on as her father, very dignified -at least publicly. Sadly I think Delphine's quest - however legitimate- has served Mr Boel a very public rejection and humiliation he didn't deserve.
Apparently Albert WAS involved with Delphine as a father for years.. so he was not a "Non father"..
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  #1437  
Old 01-29-2020, 02:45 AM
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I think Albert was a non-father for ALL his children, legitimate and not. He was never truly there for any of them and I think this impacted the most in the youngest, Laurent and Delphine, both seem to carry a lot of resentment towards him (Laurent doesn't even look at him in the eyes when they are in the same place nowadays).

As many have said, I think the three legitimate children didn't want their own to feel the way they did and became excellent spouses/parents due to that (yes, even "crazy" Laurent is supremely devoted to his own family, a far better husband and father than his own ever was).

I wouldn't blame Philippe, Astrid and Laurent if they don't want to have a relationship with Delphine, the issue is not really about them, it was always about their father, in some families even "full" siblings don't really talk to each other, it's not an obligation, I think P&L might make an effort but I'm sure Astrid would never do it because she's too close to her parents.

At this point I am not going to question Delphine's motives, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a man like Albert (king or not) but to each their own.

And frankly, both Albert and Paola's image has been shot to pieces with this entire thing, thankfully Philippe is the monarch right now and the damage can be reduced but the stain in the family will never go away thanks to the selfishness of his parents.
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  #1438  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gerry View Post
Prompted by your observation; just a gentle reminder that it is not the previous generation's lot to be 'dysfunctional'; rather the tragic loss of 29 year old Queen Astrid in 1935 that forever scarred her young family-Baudoin was only 4 years old at the time and Albert at 18 months has no memory of his mother at all. King Leopold, driving the car that killed his wife, escaped unharmed and forever carried survivors' guilt that must have left a deep imprint upon this sad family.
I realize that the tragic loss of their mother left deep emotional scars on her young children. particularly Baudouin. Albert had no memory of his mother and was said to have enjoyed a warm nurturing bond with his nanny that compensated for the loss of the maternal bond.

Still, there are people that suffer losses in childhood and manage to be decent and even wonderful parents.
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  #1439  
Old 01-29-2020, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by leidi View Post
I think Albert was a non-father for ALL his children, legitimate and not. He was never truly there for any of them and I think this impacted the most in the youngest, Laurent and Delphine, both seem to carry a lot of resentment towards him (Laurent doesn't even look at him in the eyes when they are in the same place nowadays).

As many have said, I think the three legitimate children didn't want their own to feel the way they did and became excellent spouses/parents due to that (yes, even "crazy" Laurent is supremely devoted to his own family, a far better husband and father than his own ever was).

I wouldn't blame Philippe, Astrid and Laurent if they don't want to have a relationship with Delphine, the issue is not really about them, it was always about their father, in some families even "full" siblings don't really talk to each other, it's not an obligation, I think P&L might make an effort but I'm sure Astrid would never do it because she's too close to her parents.

At this point I am not going to question Delphine's motives, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a man like Albert (king or not) but to each their own.

And frankly, both Albert and Paola's image has been shot to pieces with this entire thing, thankfully Philippe is the monarch right now and the damage can be reduced but the stain in the family will never go away thanks to the selfishness of his parents.
A ď man like AlbertĒ was an exemplary king who did a lot to preserve Belgian unity and always fulfilled his constitutional obligations at a great personal sacrifice. He was not meant to be king when he was born , but resigned himself to accept the duty that fate handed him. An example that other reluctant royals elsewhere should follow.
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  #1440  
Old 01-29-2020, 06:05 AM
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A ď man like AlbertĒ was an exemplary king who did a lot to preserve Belgian unity and always fulfilled his constitutional obligations at a great personal sacrifice. He was not meant to be king when he was born , but resigned himself to accept the duty that fate handed him. An example that other reluctant royals elsewhere should follow.
You can be a great monarch and a terrible person, the two things are not exclusive, you know?
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