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  #1241  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:23 AM
eya eya is offline
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King Albert Will Submit to Paternity Test

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/w...-dna-test.html
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  #1242  
Old 05-22-2019, 02:35 AM
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The crucial paragraph of the article:

Quote:
“His Majesty the King will accept the blood test, now that he is compelled to do so,” Guy Hiernaux, a lawyer for King Albert, said on Monday. But he would do so “on the condition that the results are kept secret until Belgium’s highest court rules on the appeal against the order,” Mr. Hiernaux said, which could “easily” take several more years.
The tactic seems to be to drag this on and on until he has died. A rather cynical approach IMHO to facilitate the King's immature behavior of failing to take responsibility for his own actions.
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  #1243  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:02 AM
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Confusingly, the article says King Albert is "fighting" to keep the DNA test results concealed. But the Belgian press has been explaining that the results are guaranteed to remain sealed for the time being because the Court of Cassation has yet to rule on Albert's appeal against the verdict regarding Jacques BoŽl's fatherhood from six months ago. The courts have no legal purpose for the DNA results during the time Jacques BoŽl remains Delphine's father.

The article says also that a positive result could "theoretically" make Delphine eligible for the throne. It must be referencing the highly unlikely but theoretically possible scenario of Albert divorcing Paola and marrying Delphine's mother, because Delphine would not qualify as a "legitimate" descendant of Leopold I (Article 85 of the Constitution) at this time even in the event of recognition as Albert's daughter.
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  #1244  
Old 05-22-2019, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
King Albert Will Submit to Paternity Test

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/w...-dna-test.html



I wonder how the NY Times inferred that King Albert's fortune may be worth "hundreds of millions of dollars" as I have never seen any previous estimate that put it that high.



I am also surprised the news made it to the NY Times to begin with as it is not a matter that the mainstream US press would normally cover, especially when the persons involved are from an "obscure" royal family from a small country like Belgium (of course, if Prince Charles or any British royal submitted to a paternity test, that would be big news in the US ).




Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

The article says also that a positive result could "theoretically" make Delphine eligible for the throne. It must be referencing the highly unlikely but theoretically possible scenario of Albert divorcing Paola and marrying Delphine's mother, because Delphine would not qualify as a "legitimate" descendant of Leopold I (Article 85 of the Constitution) at this time even in the event of recognition as Albert's daughter.

I am not familiar with the legal definition of legitimacy in Belgium, but, in any case, rather than joining the line of succession to the throne, I suppose a more realistic outcome is that Delphine might indeed become an heiress to Albert's "fortune", which, according to him, is actually pretty modest and nowhere near the values suggested by the NYT.
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  #1245  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:00 AM
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and the past King complained his Dotation was to low !
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  #1246  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eya View Post
King Albert Will Submit to Paternity Test

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/w...-dna-test.html

He will submit to the test but "fight to conceal the results" which obviously means that he knows what the result will be. This is a de facto admission of paternity. Why all this kabuki theatre on his part?

What a sad, unnecessary farce Albert's later years have turned into.
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  #1247  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:35 AM
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King Albert of the Belgians is a real Saxe-Coburg Gotha, and one of the characteristics that are attributed to "them" is stubbornness. AKA obstinacy. "Stubborn until six feet under" could be his mantra in this.
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  #1248  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:44 AM
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I do not understand this idea to 'fight to conceal the results' ...what is the point? It's not like there is a dispute over who inherits the 'crown'. Everyone already knows he had an affair.


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  #1249  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I do not understand this idea to 'fight to conceal the results' ...what is the point? It's not like there is a dispute over who inherits the 'crown'. Everyone already knows he had an affair.


LaRae
Jacques BoŽl still is Delphine's legal father. Delphine still is his heiress (knowing that Jacques BoŽl will do everything to shield his immense fortune from his daughter, but that aside).

The Court ruled that indeed Jacques BoŽl has the "Bezit van Staat"/"Possession d'…tat" (possession of state, a bond of paternity) over Delphine: for 51 years Jacques BoŽl is Delphine's legal father, a situation which is still current. This "Bezit van Staat" /"Possession d'…tat" is a very important basic legal situation in Belgian law.

The lawyers of King Albert argue that Delphine has to start a procedure to deny that Jacques BoŽl is her legal father. The Court went along with that argument but was of the opinion that the right of a child to know who is the natural father was equally strong. So the ruling came in two ťtappes:

…tappe 1: Albert van BelgiŽ / de Belgique / von Belgien has to cooperate with a DNA-test. With this Delphine's argument that she has the right to know her father is secured.

…tappe 2: the result of the DNA-test will not be disclosed until the Appeal of the King has been read in court. With this the right of Albert on a proper jurisprudence of law is secured.

---------------

Challenging a "Bezit van Staat"/"Possession d'…tat" is difficult because Delphine has to argue that Jacques BoŽl never has been her father, that he never has executed his paternity rights and duties, etc. For Anglosaxon readers it is often hard to understand that the State is not interested in who contributed into Delphine's conception. For the State it is only relevant that in 1968 Jacques BoŽl came to Uccle town hall to declare that to him, in his marriage, was born a daughter, named Delphine. From then on he had "Bezit van Staat" : he executed the parental authority, he had parental responsibility over his daughter and between the two a legal familial bond has been established which is still intact to present day.
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  #1250  
Old 05-22-2019, 01:30 PM
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The ex king is only doing this because of the financial penalties had that not been imposed it wouldn't even be considered,stubborn is putting it mildly.
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  #1251  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:49 PM
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I will never understand why some parents refuse to acknowledge the fact that they have children or bother to find out if a child from someone they had a relationship with is theirs or not (as someone who doesn't know their own father). Children are such an important and life-changing thing but sadly many parents - not just fathers - don't realise how much of a responsibility they are. Albert seems to want to preserve his reputation to me by refusing to take the paternity test for so long and prolonging it now IMO, but as has been pointed out, we all know he had an affair, so the best thing is would be just to cooperate.
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  #1252  
Old 05-22-2019, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
I agree more resemblance with Queen Astrid than Princess Astrid of the Belgians.
I agree. Delphine looks more like Queen Astrid than any of Albert and Paola's children do!
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  #1253  
Old 05-23-2019, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
He will submit to the test but "fight to conceal the results" which obviously means that he knows what the result will be. This is a de facto admission of paternity. Why all this kabuki theatre on his part?

What a sad, unnecessary farce Albert's later years have turned into.

I believe he is right in doing so. For me it's a thing between Albert and Delphine. She wants to know if she is his daughter and he has been forced to agree to a DNA-testing, which will provide the results. That information has been public as it as discussed in a court of law, in a public setting.



But: the information about the results of the testing are private. The question will be answered for Ms. Boel but there is no need for me as a private German citizen to know about it. And honestly? I am not interested in finding out if she is his daughter or not. But I don't count in that problem. Nor do we all here. So can we just accept that Albert wants to share the results with Delphine but no one else?
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  #1254  
Old 05-23-2019, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I will never understand why some parents refuse to acknowledge the fact that they have children or bother to find out if a child from someone they had a relationship with is theirs or not (as someone who doesn't know their own father). Children are such an important and life-changing thing but sadly many parents - not just fathers - don't realise how much of a responsibility they are. Albert seems to want to preserve his reputation to me by refusing to take the paternity test for so long and prolonging it now IMO, but as has been pointed out, we all know he had an affair, so the best thing is would be just to cooperate.

It is not really about DNA but about proper law. 51 years ago Messire Jacques BoŽl came to Uccle town hall with the happy news that in his marriage a daughter has been born, named Delphine. That registration started the paternal bond between the two. That situation is still intact.


The lawyers of the King point out that neither Jacques nor Delphine have started a procedure to end the paternity bond. Implying that up to the very moment you read this Jacques IS Dephine's father, with all legal consequences.


The Court had to find a Salomon's Verdict in this and decided to ride a double traject because they have to be very precize as the law simply is the law.
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  #1255  
Old 05-26-2019, 08:49 AM
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If she wasn't his daughter, this thing wouldn't have been dragged on in courts for years. I just don't understand why he is so determined to not recognise her? I get the impression that an admission from his side would improve both peoples opinion of him and resolve this whole thing. So no, I just don't get this.
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  #1256  
Old 05-26-2019, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Jacques BoŽl still is Delphine's legal father. Delphine still is his heiress (knowing that Jacques BoŽl will do everything to shield his immense fortune from his daughter, but that aside).

The Court ruled that indeed Jacques BoŽl has the "Bezit van Staat"/"Possession d'…tat" (possession of state, a bond of paternity) over Delphine: for 51 years Jacques BoŽl is Delphine's legal father, a situation which is still current. This "Bezit van Staat" /"Possession d'…tat" is a very important basic legal situation in Belgian law.

The lawyers of King Albert argue that Delphine has to start a procedure to deny that Jacques BoŽl is her legal father. The Court went along with that argument but was of the opinion that the right of a child to know who is the natural father was equally strong. So the ruling came in two ťtappes:

…tappe 1: Albert van BelgiŽ / de Belgique / von Belgien has to cooperate with a DNA-test. With this Delphine's argument that she has the right to know her father is secured.

…tappe 2: the result of the DNA-test will not be disclosed until the Appeal of the King has been read in court. With this the right of Albert on a proper jurisprudence of law is secured.

---------------

Challenging a "Bezit van Staat"/"Possession d'…tat" is difficult because Delphine has to argue that Jacques BoŽl never has been her father, that he never has executed his paternity rights and duties, etc. For Anglosaxon readers it is often hard to understand that the State is not interested in who contributed into Delphine's conception. For the State it is only relevant that in 1968 Jacques BoŽl came to Uccle town hall to declare that to him, in his marriage, was born a daughter, named Delphine. From then on he had "Bezit van Staat" : he executed the parental authority, he had parental responsibility over his daughter and between the two a legal familial bond has been established which is still intact to present day.
Thank you for the clear breakdown of the legal processes! To the best of my knowledge, most judicial systems including those in the Anglo-Saxon world follow similar concepts. The difficulty some readers have in understanding it probably results from the fact that families where the legal father is the same individual as the biological father are the most common, and judicial paternity challenges are unusual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
But: the information about the results of the testing are private. The question will be answered for Ms. Boel but there is no need for me as a private German citizen to know about it. And honestly? I am not interested in finding out if she is his daughter or not. But I don't count in that problem. Nor do we all here. So can we just accept that Albert wants to share the results with Delphine but no one else?
For the moment, the results of the court-ordered test will not be provided to King Albert, Delphine, or to the courts (see here). But Albert is at liberty to be tested privately and share the results with Delphine if that is what he desires, just as Jacques did.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I will never understand why some parents refuse to acknowledge the fact that they have children or bother to find out if a child from someone they had a relationship with is theirs or not (as someone who doesn't know their own father). Children are such an important and life-changing thing but sadly many parents - not just fathers - don't realise how much of a responsibility they are. Albert seems to want to preserve his reputation to me by refusing to take the paternity test for so long and prolonging it now IMO, but as has been pointed out, we all know he had an affair, so the best thing is would be just to cooperate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is not really about DNA but about proper law. 51 years ago Messire Jacques BoŽl came to Uccle town hall with the happy news that in his marriage a daughter has been born, named Delphine. That registration started the paternal bond between the two. That situation is still intact.


The lawyers of the King point out that neither Jacques nor Delphine have started a procedure to end the paternity bond. Implying that up to the very moment you read this Jacques IS Dephine's father, with all legal consequences.


The Court had to find a Salomon's Verdict in this and decided to ride a double traject because they have to be very precize as the law simply is the law.
I think there are several different matters which have been under discussion in this thread. The verdicts surrounding the law are one of those issues; another is King Albert II's refusal to acknowledge his presumed biological paternity to Delphine BoŽl outside of the courts. He could have made, and theoretically still could make, an unofficial admission that he is her biological father without changing the fact that Jonkheer Jacques BoŽl remains her father legally.
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  #1257  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:00 AM
eya eya is offline
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Delphine Boel make a photo shoot by photographer Henk Van Cauwenbergh, in Damme, West Flanders. She appears on the cover of Van Cauwenbergh's new book "Mon Plat Pays'

https://www.hln.be/showbizz/royalty/...ader~a5d72881/
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  #1258  
Old 05-28-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I believe he is right in doing so. For me it's a thing between Albert and Delphine. She wants to know if she is his daughter and he has been forced to agree to a DNA-testing, which will provide the results. That information has been public as it as discussed in a court of law, in a public setting.



But: the information about the results of the testing are private. The question will be answered for Ms. Boel but there is no need for me as a private German citizen to know about it. And honestly? I am not interested in finding out if she is his daughter or not. But I don't count in that problem. Nor do we all here. So can we just accept that Albert wants to share the results with Delphine but no one else?
It's not to be shared with Delphine BoŽl either...

So, I fully agree with those that state that (again) Albert has confirmed he is her father. Otherwise there is no reason to stress that the results will be kept secret beforehand. He would surely share them if the test would show him not to be her father.

His attorney even told the media how hard it was for Albert that something that happened 50 years ago is already dragging on for 5 years. Albert is suffering from all of this, while he is already in bad health...

Well, I'd say he can easily stop the suffering by no longer fighting the inevitable
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  #1259  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:35 PM
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See the various posts above yours :)

It's widely reported in the Belgian media and also by among others Dutch and American media, so I have no doubt this is true.

I do find the 'has agreed to a paternity test' a very euphemistic way of saying things: he has been forced to take a paternity test and finally relented (not being willing to pay 5000 EUR a day for not following the judge's order). He took the test this morning but results will not be made available for as long as he can possibly delay the process.
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  #1260  
Old 05-31-2019, 03:07 PM
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Can he legally do that? Here in the US such things must be made public record.
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