The Family of Prince Henrik - The de Laborde de Monpezats - Page 3

iowabelle · #41 07-02-2009, 06:57 PM

This has puzzled me too. So I sat and made a timeline.

It looks like Prince Henrik's mother made a first civil marriage but didn't marry that husband in a religious ceremony (this situation is rather similar to the Princess of the Asturias' but Letizia did divorce her first husband before marrying Felipe). So technically in the eyes of the Catholic Church Renee wasn't married when she married Andre in 1934. The marriage between Renee and Andre was a religious marriage, but they didn't marry civilly until 1948.

The civil marriage between Renee and the first husband ended in 1940, oddly enough in a court in Saigon, Vietnam. Renee, Andre and Henrik apparently lived in Vietnam from 1934 to 1940 and must have returned to France shortly after the outbreak of World War II.

It's conjecture on my part but it's possible that there was some difficulty tracking down the first husband during the war years and that's why civil proceedings weren't undertaken for part of that time. But that doesn't explain 1934-1940 or 1945-1948.

So was the Monpezat marriage considered valid before 1948 since the civil portion hadn't taken place?

maria-olivia · #42 07-03-2009, 07:43 AM

Strange story, but is Prince Henrik Count André de Montpezat 's son ??
H.M. Margerethe who is Dane ignored that Renée had two husbands.
So I think that the story about the Prince Consort's childhood is completely hidden by the Royal Court. At the moment of the wedding it was better that the Crown princess married a Count's son.. but what I know for sure is that André de Montpezat gave his name to Renée's 6 children.
For the royal wedding Renée and her 3 daughters had to loan tiaras. ( Mrs Donaldson and her daughters did not)
Since Henri's de Montpezat royal wedding his family ,completely unknown before, became famous and in Point de Vue they were a lot of pictures about Jean-Baptiste and one of the de Monpezat's daughter weddings. Etienne de Montpezat was well-known by the then jet-set.
I am sure member's of the famly were at hendrik's 75 birthday , but Mary/Marie stole the show.

H.M. Margrethe · #43 07-03-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Strange story, but is Prince Henrik Count André de Montpezat 's son ??
H.M. Margerethe who is Dane ignored that Renée had two husbands.
So I think that the story about the Prince Consort's childhood is completely hidden by the Royal Court. At the moment of the wedding it was better that the Crown princess married a Count's son.. but what I know for sure is that André de Montpezat gave his name to Renée's 6 children.
For the royal wedding Renée and her 3 daughters had to loan tiaras. ( Mrs Donaldson and her daughters did not)
Since Henri's de Montpezat royal wedding his family ,completely unknown before, became famous and in Point de Vue they were a lot of pictures about Jean-Baptiste and one of the de Monpezat's daughter weddings. Etienne de Montpezat was well-known by the then jet-set.
I am sure member's of the famly were at hendrik's 75 birthday , but Mary/Marie stole the show.

I am currius to know if it´s me you are writing about or if is Queen Margrethe of Denmark ?
If it´s me you are writing about "H.M. Margerethe who is Dane ignored that Renée had two husbands." then i hafe to say for my defence or fact that i have never heard the story/news that Prince Henriks mother has been married 2 times i don´t think that that is ignoreing it or is it?

maria-olivia · #44 07-03-2009, 10:34 AM

H.M.Margarethe,I apologise to have said about you the word "ignoring" to me it was the same of "I never heard". All the best.

Maura724 · #45 07-03-2009, 11:49 AM

My impression (based on wikipedia, which of course might very well be wrong) is that Henrik is Andre de Monpezat's son. If Renee and Andre married in Jan. 1934, she would have already been 4 months pregnant with Henri, who was born in June. I would assume that being pregnant with a baby she knew was Andre's was why there was a hurry to marry even without ending her earlier civil marriage. I also doubt she would have married him knowing she was pregnant with another man's baby.

H.M. Margrethe · #46 07-03-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

H.M.Margarethe,I apologise to have said about you the word "ignoring" to me it was the same of "I never heard". All the best.

It´s okay no hard fealings...i became just currius you know ?

iowabelle · #47 07-03-2009, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724

My impression (based on wikipedia, which of course might very well be wrong) is that Henrik is Andre de Monpezat's son. If Renee and Andre married in Jan. 1934, she would have already been 4 months pregnant with Henri, who was born in June. I would assume that being pregnant with a baby she knew was Andre's was why there was a hurry to marry even without ending her earlier civil marriage. I also doubt she would have married him knowing she was pregnant with another man's baby.

I would have to agree with this interpretation, although I don't know any more than was stated in wikipedia. I would guess that back in the 1960s it was also probably scandalous for it to be known that the baby was conceived before any kind of marriage was performed.

It's pretty amazing that this wasn't more widely known, given that there were some concerns about whether the de Monpezats could legally claim to be counts. You'd think the family background would have been very thoroughly vetted.

Mandy · #48 07-03-2009, 10:12 PM

Does anyone remember when French law started to require a civil as well a religious wedding ceremony. If I recall correctly, prior to that time, the Catholic Church didn't recognize civic unions and therefore wouldn't have expected or required either of the participants to seek a divorce or annulment. I wonder if this is the case with Hendrik's mother.

Maura724 · #49 07-03-2009, 11:49 PM

Has anyone read Prince Henrik's autobiography? Does he comment on any of this?

**Stefan** · #50 07-04-2009, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandy

Does anyone remember when French law started to require a civil as well a religious wedding ceremony. If I recall correctly, prior to that time, the Catholic Church didn't recognize civic unions and therefore wouldn't have expected or required either of the participants to seek a divorce or annulment. I wonder if this is the case with Hendrik's mother.

Don't know but it should hae been quiet early. Here in Germany it was introduced in 1871.

iowabelle · #51 07-05-2009, 07:22 PM

I would have thought that the civil marriage would have been required as a result of the Napoleonic reforms, and then the church marriage would have been optional but not required (since some people aren't Catholic or even Christian). But I'm not sure.

lyndaW · #52 07-12-2009, 02:15 PM

This is one convulated family. Would love to see "older" pictures as well as "recent" pictures

emmalisa · #53 07-27-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Princess

I've heard once that Prince Christian is very similar to Prince Henrik's (or grand) father. I'd like to see if it's true.

With that I agree. IMO he reminds both Prince Henrik (grand father) as well as Count André de Laborde de Monpezat (great grand father).

Muhler · #54 06-19-2010, 05:44 AM

In a Q&A in Billed Bladet #24, 2010.
A Henrik Simonsen asks whether it's true that Prince Henrik's Grandfather (farfar) killed someone.

Jon Bloch Skipper replies that it is indeed true.
It happened on the 4. September 1918, When PH's grandfather, Henri de Laborde Montpezat, had a fight with captain Joseph Demenach who had an affair with his wife.
During the fight Henri Montpezat drew a gun and shot the captain, who later died.
In November 1918 Henri Montepezat got a five year prison sentence, suspended.

He died in 1929.

Maura724 · #55 06-19-2010, 10:06 AM

Interesting, Muhler! Definitely never heard that one before!

Catharina · #56 01-04-2011, 08:11 AM

Didn't know where to post this but as I was looking through family trees while pondering possible names for the Crown Prince couple's twins I found Prince Henrik's family tree. Interestingly there seem to be quite many German names in it too in addition to French ones.

Ancestry of Henri de Laborde de Monpezat

maria-olivia · #57 01-04-2011, 05:57 PM

Interesting and confirmation that Renée Doursenot was pregnant when she married Count André de Montpezat

Kangourou · #58 02-20-2011, 02:09 PM

Renee Doursenot's first marriage was to a defrocked priest, Louis Leuret, which explains that they did not have a religious wedding. Furthermore, Renee Doursenot was still married to that man when she started her relationship with Andre de Monpezat, and having his children. Talk about scandalous (back then, anyway!)

According to what I know from very reliable sources, Francoise de Monpezat is that man's biological daughter, but Henri/Henrik is Andre de Monpezat's child.

What I would like to know is whether Andre ever return to Indochina during the last quarter of 1948, while the family temporarily relocated in France. How would I find out?

IslandDweller · #59 05-22-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catharina

Didn't know where to post this but as I was looking through family trees while pondering possible names for the Crown Prince couple's twins I found Prince Henrik's family tree. Interestingly there seem to be quite many German names in it too in addition to French ones.

Ancestry of Henri de Laborde de Monpezat

A very interesting lineage Henrik has! It's really not aristocratic at all. I believe the French system of nobility is far more complicated than the British one; so I'm not sure if the family counted as actual nobility or not, but whatever their standing, they don't seem to have ever married amongst the nobility. Henrik's mother's family was even working class. Her father's occupation is listed as railroad employee, and her grandfathers' as upholsterer and roofer. Henrik's father's mother was a professor's daughter.

I hope people realize I'm not pointing these things out sneeringly. It's just a surprise.

Kataryn · #60 05-23-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandDweller

A very interesting lineage Henrik has! It's really not aristocratic at all. I believe the French system of nobility is far more complicated than the British one; so I'm not sure if the family counted as actual nobility or not, but whatever their standing, they don't seem to have ever married amongst the nobility. Henrik's mother's family was even working class. Her father's occupation is listed as railroad employee, and her grandfathers' as upholsterer and roofer. Henrik's father's mother was a professor's daughter.

I hope people realize I'm not pointing these things out sneeringly. It's just a surprise.

There is quite some German nobility in it, but mostly of the kind of "Dienstadel" - nobility granted for service rendered to the souverain. Which is not bad at all! Plus there are countless ancestors who held the office of councillor or were both burghers and master craftsmen, some even leader of their guild or innkeeper - all of which speaks of a certain wealth and a social position. Especially as some of them lived in towns which were independent from local reign but only accounted to the emperor ("Reichsstädte"), which gave them the rank of being patricians.

Others oncluded learned people, mostly protestant priest or higher accountants who served of the boards of abbeys, towns or for landed noble families (etc. at Langenburg, the residence of the Hohenlohe-branch which is related to Prince Philip) or even for the court, holding offices there. It would be interesting to see what became of the other siblings of Prince Henriks ancestors.

In short: the lines are not prominent or noble, but consists of a solid basis of social standing, education and surely wealth. The daughters seem to have had a tendency to marry up (the later ancestors held higher offices than the older ones) and the overall level is judging by our modern times: a good family.