Prince Henrik's Plans for his Final Resting Place: August 2017

[Muhler]

Here is what the Prime Minister said earlier today: Lars Løkke: 'Det er ikke nogen nem periode i Kongehuset' | BT Danmark - www.bt.dk

Jeg har stor respekt for og kærlighed til den kongelige familie. Det er ikke nogen nem periode i kongehuset.- Regentparrets interne forhold vil jeg ikke kommentere på. Men blot opfordre til, at vi alle respekterer familiens ret til privatliv, ikke mindst for prins Henrik, som jo er gået på pension.
- Dronningen yder en beundringsværdig indsats for det land, hun elsker så højt,

"I have great respect for and love for the royal family. It's not an easy time in DRF.
I will not comment on the internal relations of the Regent Couple. But simply call for all of us to respect the right of the family for a private life, not least for Prince Henrik, who has retired.
The Queen is doing ad admirable job for the country she loves so much".

- I notice that the PM, just like the leading politician Thulesen Dahl the other day, is expressing a very strong support for QMII, while not praising PH, not even for his past deeds.
I find it interesting that the PM calls for the privacy of the DRF to be respected, not least that of PH.
To me that can only be interpreted as a call to the press about backing off, and perhaps be less keen to bring PH in a situation where he will be ranting away. In short: leave him alone and don't ask him questions.

That IMO is an indication that PH is suffering from some kind of age-related mental condition. Alternatively it could also mean: Don't give the old grumpy-head airtime!

-----------------------

I think it's a good suggestion O H Anglophile has put forward, i.e. to open a new thread where the titles of future consorts can be discussed in general. Because it is a valid discussion for the future.
Also because I must admit that I have found some of the arguments brought forward here somewhat inflammatory if not downright bordering on insulting towards both QMII, (which I think that is both unfair and undeserved) and also towards the Danes in general. While at the same time ignoring the explanations, cultural reasons and public views that have repeatedly been presented as to why PH cannot have the title he coverts so much and why PH was not treated incorrectly at the now infamous New Year Court.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by M. Payton

And this thread is not about any other royal family which is always brought up, this is the country of Denmark, not England nor the Netherlands nor anywhere else. This is not a basket of mixed fruit so to speak, and what one country does another country does not have to do. Hopefully each country can have their own history, heritage, beliefs and customs without this endless comparison. We the world are not global yet in that everything has to be the same....it gets very frustrating when someone is reading and learning about one country and other countries are thrown into the mix......

From the establishment of the modern hereditary monarchy in Denmark (in 1660, I believe) until the change to the Act of Succession in 1953, only males could inherit the Danish throne. Queen Margrethe II, who ascended the throne in 1972, is therefore the first reigning queen in the history of the modern Danish monarchy , which also makes Prince Henrik the first modern consort of a reigning queen. So, with all due respect to you and to Muhler, I submit that, prior to QMII, Denmark actually had no tradition regarding the naming of the consort of the reigning queen., simply because there was no such thing in Denmark.

What the Danes did with respect to Henrik's titles, which I believe the Court itself acknowledged the first time Henrik questioned his rank, was actually to adopt the precedent of other countries, namely post-18th century Britain and the Netherlands, where the husband of the reigning queen was only a prince. Incidentallly, that happens to be the (relatively recent) precedent that is now used by all European monarchies apparently, including those such as Spain where, in the past, the husband of a reigning queen was called "king".

[Bine221]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

Earlier in this thread a fellow poster snubbed the non-attendance of Prince Henrik at the Royal Wedding in Amsterdam, 02-02-2002. But exactly one month before that major event there was a public clash at the Danish Court: the Prince's anger was sparked when Queen Margrethe became ill and was unable to host the traditional New Year Levée of politicians, diplomats and military. The Levée went ahead, but when it came to the passage (the greetings), it was not The Prince Consort taking the honneurs for the Queen, no... his son Prince Frederik played the "host".

Sorry, but CROWN Prince Frederic is the next reigning Monarch in line of the throne..... and not PH
BYe Bine

[Muhler]

Mbruno,

PH is the first male consort - ever - in the DRF.
QMII is the first female monarch - ever - in the DRF.

QMI was Regent on behalf of her son and later stepson. She was however politically speaking the most influential and powerful monarch that not only Denmark but the whole of Scandinavia has ever had.
Which is the reason why she is officially known as Queen Margrethe I. She earned that title, even if she only got it after her death.

Because Mbruno, you seem to miss the point.
It's pretty theoretical to talk about what was and how it is in other countries, because AFAIK none of the consorts who got a title as king consort behaved like PH. None of them sulked in public or blackmailed their wives publicly.
The realities are that PH is the first male consort in the DRF. He's a trailblazer. PH is the first page in a new blank book.
After he the first time pointed out that he felt sidelined, he got the title of Prince Consort, which at the time was accepted and indeed thought deserved by the public.
Then a few years ago, he blew it. He wanted to be king. There was no talk about king consort, it was king. That was categorically dismissed, not only by QMII but also the people and the politicians.

That was as far as people were ready to go in regards to reforms and gender equality within the DRF.
Although PH had increased his popularity remarkably and even managed to remain pretty popular after this, the vast majority of Danes and the politicians simply did not think he deserved it. It wasn't so much a question of the wording in the Constitution (even though it annoyed the politicians to no end!) it was PH's credit score that was simply too low.

This time PH has hammered in the final nail in that coffin. There is no way the people will accept him with a title as king consort, even if he by some remote chance actually got it.
He has embarrassed the tribe and unless he no longer knows what he is doing, the tribe will not forgive him!
To me this is not an academic discussion, it's about feelings.
PH has embarrassed my country, he has embarrassed my Queen, my royal family and he has embarrassed me!
The realities are that PH blew it, big time!

Had he played his cards differently, he might actually have been made king consort with public support. Now he may even have ruined it for the next male consort as well.
Which of current up-coming male consorts will now even dare whisper "king consort" for fear of being compared to PH?

Under the British system, the protocol changes depending on the circumstances and whether the spouse is alone or together with other members of the BRF. In that case a title as king consort could make some sense.
Under the Danish system the spouses, PH, Mary and our Marie, always holds the same position as the one they are married to in regards to the protocol.
Example: Joachim, even though he's a prince of the blood and in the line of succession, will strictly speaking have to bow his head to Mary, even if she is alone, because she holds the same position as her husband.
And that's why most of us here in DK, simply cannot understand PH's problem.

ADDED: Right now I'm pretty fed up with PH and this mess he has created!! And a bit tired as well I think.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

You're saying that as though it wasn't 100% his own choice to give up all those things to marry her. No one forced him to do that. He knew what he went into when he married QMII and what he went into didn't include the title of king. If you're telling me that Henrik married QMII solely to become a king (which I assume you are since you seem to imply that all the things the poor man has given up at the very least should earn him that title), then sorry not sorry, Henrik didn't read up on his homework because it doesn't work like that here and no one's to blame for that but himself.

I also absolutely refuse to feel even remotely sorry for a man as privileged as Henrik tirelessly moaning about not being king. He should be ashamed of himself, quite frankly. He lives one of the most privileged, carefree and secure lives you can live on this earth yet he still has the nerves to complain about a stupid title – and for what? Because he can't stand the thought of being inferior to a woman. I'm gonna be real fancy and pull out a Kourtney Kardashian quote: There's people that are dying. Henrik should take note of that.

For me, that says it all. ALL. This was a highly intelligent worldly diplomat. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to sign away his identity, his religion, or his prerogatives.

He needs to sleep in the bed he made for himself or stay at Caix permanently and rest in an entirely different bed altogether.

Poor Frederik! There must be nothing so awkward and painful as having a father who is envious and perhaps resentful of you.

[Osipi]

Regardless of our opinions of whether or not Henrik's claims are valid or the rantings of a man devoid of his senses, the crux of the matter is that the way he's gone about trying to prove that he's been disrespected and that there is something that desperately needs to be "fixed" and going public with it and making his thoughts known (very vocally) is only serving to work against him.

There are more ways to get what one wants if they are absolutely serious about it. Studying the Danish constitution would be a start and perhaps enlisting the services of a constitutional expert to develop a case for his arguments would be one way. Ranting, raving, bullying and threatening to hold his breath until he's blue in the face to get what he wants are hallmarks of a tantrum with no legitimate basis behind it and cannot be taken seriously.

How Henrik is presenting himself now is "I want". He is not presenting a case that "I want because...." with legitimate, valid reasoning behind it. Its all in how you say things sometimes.

[O-H Anglophile]

For anyone interested in expanding the conversation about the titles, etc of the spouse of a monarch, I started a thread in the "General Royal Discussion" under "Royal Ceremony and Protocol" named "Titles and styles of monarch's spouses."

[ladongas]

PH, despite his obvious mental issues, has had over 40 years to settle this issue with the Queen and the Danish people. An efficient and well-thought out 'campaign' in the early years might have succeeded. But he failed in bringing and concluding his 'case' in a timely manner.

Under the doctrine of laches (which dates back many centuries in continental law), you can't wait decades to bring your grievance to the forefront. "You snooze, you lose" is a light-hearted way to define laches.

I pity him and his family.

[O-H Anglophile]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Regardless of our opinions of whether or not Henrik's claims are valid or the rantings of a man devoid of his senses, the crux of the matter is that the way he's gone about trying to prove that he's been disrespected and that there is something that desperately needs to be "fixed" and going public with it and making his thoughts known (very vocally) is only serving to work against him.

There are more ways to get what one wants if they are absolutely serious about it. Studying the Danish constitution would be a start and perhaps enlisting the services of a constitutional expert to develop a case for his arguments would be one way. Ranting, raving, bullying and threatening to hold his breath until he's blue in the face to get what he wants are hallmarks of a tantrum with no legitimate basis behind it and cannot be taken seriously.

How Henrik is presenting himself now is "I want". He is not presenting a case that "I want because...." with legitimate, valid reasoning behind it. Its all in how you say things sometimes.

He was a diplomat and presumably learned the art of diplomacy. But now he is behaving like a spoiled brat who wants his own way. That is what makes me think there is something not quite right about how his brain is functioning. He may not have Alzheimer's but I do think there is something affecting his judgement. Many older people develop some impairment of brain function even if they don't have Alzheimer's or clinical dementia. That's why older people are frequently the targets of con artists. It doesn't seem like he can present a rational argument, he just knows what he wants and he is not getting it.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Bine221

Sorry, but CROWN Prince Frederic is the next reigning Monarch in line of the throne..... and not PH
BYe Bine

Sorry, now you are in correcting mode, I can do it as well: it is FrederiK and not Frederic.

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

[...]
He needs to sleep in the bed he made for himself or stay at Caix permanently and rest in an entirely different bed altogether.
[...]

Not at all. Is that not the private business of the married couple Margrethe and Henri where he (or she, or they) has (have) to sleep?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Osipi

There are more ways to get what one wants if they are absolutely serious about it. Studying the Danish constitution would be a start and perhaps enlisting the services of a constitutional expert to develop a case for his arguments would be one way. Ranting, raving, bullying and threatening to hold his breath until he's blue in the face to get what he wants are hallmarks of a tantrum with no legitimate basis behind it and cannot be taken seriously.

In that respect, I agree with you 100 %. PH is hurting his cause by acting the way he is acting.

In any case, I am afraid it is a hopeless cause anyway, especially now that the "prince consort" rule seems to be in use everywhere in Europe.

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile

He was a diplomat and presumably learned the art of diplomacy. But now he is behaving like a spoiled brat who wants his own way. That is what makes me think there is something not quite right about how his brain is functioning. He may not have Alzheimer's but I do think there is something affecting his judgement. Many older people develop some impairment of brain function even if they don't have Alzheimer's or clinical dementia. That's why older people are frequently the targets of con artists. It doesn't seem like he can present a rational argument, he just knows what he wants and he is not getting it.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I've even seen examples of it in myself and hubby as we roll into our golden years. Things that we thought our parents thought were cool were "square" to us and we see the up and coming generations and shake our head at "what is this crapola they call music?" or have the tendency to still say "icebox" instead of refrigerator or bemoan how much things used to cost back in the day. The way things were change but sometimes the mental outlook on it doesn't.

I think a lot of it too depends on the person and how they view grudges. Some people hold onto them for dear life and the thoughts of setting things right is never far from their thoughts as they feel the need to get even or set things right and triumph over adversity and that grudge grows and grows. Personally, I hate carrying grudges. They shed horribly.

[JR76]

I just looked at some footage from the Cours of 2002 that started all of this and I have some comments.
Prince Henrik was furious because in the absence of his wife the Queen he had to witness their son the Crown Prince take her place and host the official Denmark in his fathers house something PH felt should have been his place as the consort of QM.
The thing is Queen Margrethe was present at the greeting of the Governement at the New Years Cour and then she left before the dinner which was hosted by PH.
Later at the Diplomats reception at Christiansborg (which is not the house of PH) the Prince took first place and was greeted by everyone first before the Crown Prince who only stepped in to give the speech greeting the diplomats usually given by QM. All this is in line with the Constitution that states that if the King isnt present he is represented by the heir.
As the Pater familias Prince Henrik was the host at all the Cours of 2002 except for when it was interpreted that the constitution demanded that the Heir to the throne step in to represent the King.

[Tatiana Maria]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

From the establishment of the modern hereditary monarchy in Denmark (in 1660, I believe) until the change to the Act of Succession in 1953, only males could inherit the Danish throne. Queen Margrethe II, who ascended the throne in 1972, is therefore the first reigning queen in the history of the modern Danish monarchy , which also makes Prince Henrik the first modern consort of a reigning queen. So, with all due respect to you and to Muhler, I submit that, prior to QMII, Denmark actually had no tradition regarding the naming of the consort of the reigning queen., simply because there was no such thing in Denmark.

What the Danes did with respect to Henrik's titles, which I believe the Court itself acknowledged the first time Henrik questioned his rank, was actually to adopt the precedent of other countries, namely post-18th century Britain and the Netherlands, where the husband of the reigning queen was only a prince. [...]

Originally Posted by Muhler

PH is the first male consort - ever - in the DRF.
QMII is the first female monarch - ever - in the DRF.

[...]

The realities are that PH is the first male consort in the DRF. He's a trailblazer. PH is the first page in a new blank book.
After he the first time pointed out that he felt sidelined, he got the title of Prince Consort, which at the time was accepted and indeed thought deserved by the public.
Then a few years ago, he blew it. He wanted to be king. There was no talk about king consort, it was king. That was categorically dismissed, not only by QMII but also the people and the politicians.

That was as far as people were ready to go in regards to reforms and gender equality within the DRF.
Although PH had increased his popularity remarkably and even managed to remain pretty popular after this, the vast majority of Danes and the politicians simply did not think he deserved it. It wasn't so much a question of the wording in the Constitution (even though it annoyed the politicians to no end!) it was PH's credit score that was simply too low.

This time PH has hammered in the final nail in that coffin. There is no way the people will accept him with a title as king consort, even if he by some remote chance actually got it.
He has embarrassed the tribe and unless he no longer knows what he is doing, the tribe will not forgive him!
To me this is not an academic discussion, it's about feelings.
PH has embarrassed my country, he has embarrassed my Queen, my royal family and he has embarrassed me!
The realities are that PH blew it, big time!

[...]

My thoughts are that Muhler's post and Mbruno's post are both absolutely right. Lene Balleby, the head of the press office, recently said that: "[...] in regards to the question about title, we in Denmark have decided to follow the European tradition which has been applied in both England and Holland." (See: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2007594). But in regards to the people and the politicians of Denmark, their reasons and the discussion are about Prince Henrik and the Danish royal house, not the traditions in other countries.

On a side note, both females and males could inherit the Danish throne in accordance with Articles 27-40 of the Kongelov of 1665, which used the semi-Salic form of succession. However, the articles were repealed by the succession law of 1853.

Kongeloven, 14. november 1665

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

On a side note, both females and males could inherit the Danish throne in accordance with Articles 27-40 of the Kongelov of 1665, which used the semi-Salic form of succession. However, the articles were repealed by the succession law of 1853.

Kongeloven, 14. november 1665

Thats true. There are (drawn) images and reports from the celebrations in Copenhagen at the birth of the future Gustav IV of Sweden who through his mother Sofia Magdalena of Denmark had a claim to the Danish throne.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by JR76

Later at the Diplomats reception at Christiansborg (which is not the house of PH) the Prince took first place and was greeted by everyone first before the Crown Prince who only stepped in to give the speech greeting the diplomats usually given by QM. All this is in line with the Constitution that states that if the King isnt present he is represented by the heir.
As the Pater familias Prince Henrik was the host at all the Cours of 2002 except for when it was interpreted that the constitution demanded that the Heir to the throne step in to represent the King.

And this was the thing that made him so miffed that he had to leave the country??

[M. Payton]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

From the establishment of the modern hereditary monarchy in Denmark (in 1660, I believe) until the change to the Act of Succession in 1953, only males could inherit the Danish throne. Queen Margrethe II, who ascended the throne in 1972, is therefore the first reigning queen in the history of the modern Danish monarchy , which also makes Prince Henrik the first modern consort of a reigning queen. So, with all due respect to you and to Muhler, I submit that, prior to QMII, Denmark actually had no tradition regarding the naming of the consort of the reigning queen., simply because there was no such thing in Denmark.

What the Danes did with respect to Henrik's titles, which I believe the Court itself acknowledged the first time Henrik questioned his rank, was actually to adopt the precedent of other countries, namely post-18th century Britain and the Netherlands, where the husband of the reigning queen was only a prince. Incidentallly, that happens to be the (relatively recent) precedent that is now used by all European monarchies apparently, including those such as Spain where, in the past, the husband of a reigning queen was called "king".

Just because the Danes *adopted the precedent* of other countries does not mean that the Danish Government and people should do as other countries do at present so that PH can have the title of King Consort. In fact PH had the title of Prince Consort did he not and then he *retired* and went back to being just a *Prince*, so how in the world is the title King Consort going to help him today being retired? It is a useless title with no meaning behind it and should not be given just because he says so. Does anyone reward bad, hateful behavior to those that throw fits of anger, degrade and embarrass their entire family and country........I would like to think that that any reasonable person today would see how PH's behavior is damaging to his entire family and the country as a whole.

I am not sure what his thinking is and see that he is so messed up in the mind that I wonder if he is actually has type of illness for surely any reasonable person by now would understand the situation and deal with it in a mature manner. His actions are beyond repair now I think for he has done all this damage by himself period, it came out of his mouth not someone else's.

[Emmily]

Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23

For me, that says it all. ALL. This was a highly intelligent worldly diplomat. No one held a gun to his head and forced him to sign away his identity, his religion, or his prerogatives.

He needs to sleep in the bed he made for himself or stay at Caix permanently and rest in an entirely different bed altogether.

Poor Frederik! There must be nothing so awkward and painful as having a father who is envious and perhaps resentful of you.

I have wondered the last several years how Frederik and Mary must feel about PH's demands.

[polyesco]

Originally Posted by Muhler

Q: Many don’t understand Your decision?
PH: “Oh, well then it isn’t my fault. And I don’t care anyway”.

Q: But a lot of people think You let the Queen down?
PH: “Ooh? They think so? If anyone has let me down…
I think we are fine together. But no man can accept that he isn’t at the same level as his spouse”.
...
Q: So never mind everything else. Everything else means nothing and doesn’t matter, Your Royal Highness, when you love someone…
PH: “Nooo, it doesn’t doesn’t matter. No man can accept not being equal to his spouse”.

thank you Muhler for the translations. ( i have shorten it to quote it here). This for me is a frustrating interview. He just does not care about anything or anyone else but his precious title. He says that privately he is equal and in charge of his household, but that does not matter, he wants the title. So it's not about being treated "equal", its about having a fancy title.
He seems to dismissed his happy marriage and the love of his wife because he is focused on only one thing. Very selfish! For him its title first then wife second.
And how very disrespectful towards Denmark, who have given him everything.

Originally Posted by Muhler

This time PH has hammered in the final nail in that coffin. There is no way the people will accept him with a title as king consort, even if he by some remote chance actually got it.
He has embarrassed the tribe and unless he no longer knows what he is doing, the tribe will not forgive him!
To me this is not an academic discussion, it's about feelings.
PH has embarrassed my country, he has embarrassed my Queen, my royal family and he has embarrassed me!
The realities are that PH blew it, big time!

Had he played his cards differently, he might actually have been made king consort with public support. Now he may even have ruined it for the next male consort as well.
Which of current up-coming male consorts will now even dare whisper "king consort" for fear of being compared to PH?

perfectly written!
Hi has no regards for his wife, family or country.

Originally Posted by Osipi

Regardless of our opinions of whether or not Henrik's claims are valid or the rantings of a man devoid of his senses, the crux of the matter is that the way he's gone about trying to prove that he's been disrespected and that there is something that desperately needs to be "fixed" and going public with it and making his thoughts known (very vocally) is only serving to work against him.

.

Agree 100%. His very public rants are very disrespectful!
The title discussion is one thing, but his actions are another.


Looking back to the quotes from his sons regarding this matter;
Joachim "I have been aware of it for a while, and it is as my mother has already said: We all accepted it"
Frederik "I only have to say that I'm really sorry for my father's decision in a lot of ways. More can not be said about this matter at the moment".

I think for Frederik looking at this issue must have been hard. As both a son and as the heir. As a son, to deal with your father refusing to be buried with your mom over a title. To deal with him bringing this up over and over with his public rants. To see the strong words by his father to his mother, in public! As heir, to feel that resentment from Henrik, when you are only doing your duty and role as Crown Prince in representing the Queen.

But of course, if Henrik has complete disregard over how his wife feels, Im guessing he does not care about his sons opinions. Or his family, for at least 2 of his grandkids, Nikolai and Felix are at the age active in social media and seeing their grandfather show no respect.

[Blog Real]

I think the Royal House should take a position on this matter and issue a statement explaining what is going on with Prince Henrik, if he has no health problems, things are more serious.
I think one of the exits could be the Queen's abdication, so the attention would be more towards Frederik and Mary and things could calm down in this controversy.
I do not know what the real house will do, but you have to take a stand on this matter ...