Prince Henrik's Plans for his Final Resting Place: August 2017

[Terri Terri]

Margrethe is an extremely self-centered woman as it was IMO very evident at this year's photoshoot in Graasten.

I must admit that this statement intrigued me. How was the Queen self-centered during the photo shoot? After all, isn't the ring rider parade a traditional event for presenting flower bouquets to the Queen? In addition, it's an interesting point of view about a war going on between the regent couple, that does not bode well for the monarchy.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by Terri Terri

I must admit that this statement intrigued me. How was the Queen self-centered during the photo shoot? After all, isn't the ring rider parade a traditional event for presenting flower bouquets to the Queen?

Yes, I believe you are correct Terri Terri. It would have been awful of her if she did not attend even though her bad back was troubling her that day according to news media. She smiled to all through the rain to all the lovely citizens that turned out. True Queen of her country.

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

If a man of a deposed dynasty has a higher rank than a daughter and a sister of reigning monarchs you can well and truly argue about...
Astrid and Lorenz got married BEFORE Albert´s accession because King Baudouin was still alive, so Astrid was a niece of a reigning monarch back in 1984!
Obviously the title of "Prince of Asturias" might not (other than in the Netherlands, where the title of the Prince of Orange - now Prcss of Orange - is only for the future monarch) be only for the heir him/ herself, because Letizia was Princess of Asturias before her husband´s accession!

This reminds me a little of how women with any kind of title behave. If a woman doctor marries a man without some kind of "title," she's still "Dr. Jones," even if he is "Mr. Smith."

[kalnel]

Originally Posted by tommy100

Is he not? I get the impression behind Palace doors he is in charge and most likely often gets his own way. When he doesn't we seem to know about it... the fit he threw after Fredrick replaced the Queen at the New Years Reception, this ongoing desire to get a title he has no right and no precedence to have. He is certainly very volatile IMO. The Queen may well be the same, she may well be self centered but if so at least she hides it enough to not allow it to stop her doing her job or detract from her job and role.

I certainly don't see how anyone cam say this is the Queen's fault unless they think she should cave in and give her husband the title he so desires.

If I'm remembering the whole New Year's Eve thing right, part of Henrik's annoyance was that the event was being held in "his house." In addition to all the stuff about rank, he was furious that he could be bumped out of the role of host in his own home.

(I seem to remember a Point de Vue interview where he said as much.)

I think it's a little harsh to say that the Queen is self-centered. She strikes me more as "job-centered," which seems appropriate for someone with such an important, life-long job. No different from a doctor, minister, fire fighter, or any other person who has to drop everything to do their job.

I thought it was a little odd that neither the Queen nor Frederik left Graasten to spend time with Henrik when he was in the hospital, but royal families do things differently from the rest of us. Prince Philip has been in the hospital several times in recent years without getting a visit from the Queen.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by ricarda

But as in most breakdowns of a marriage it's never just one side who is to be blamed. Margrethe is an extremely self-centered woman as it was IMO very evident at this year's photoshoot in Graasten.
At the beginning of their marriage she insisted on speaking French with her husband when it would have been good for him to learn Danish quickly, again very self-centered. And no, Henrik is not used to getting his own way, quite on the contrary, tommy100.

This comment is just ridiculous. How exactly did you gather that QMII is self-centered from the photoshoot? Was it the greeting all the people who brought her flowers or was it the sitting down because she's in almost constant pain because of her back?

And as for him not speaking learning Danish immediately, why should QMII be blamed for that? I know QMII is a very wise woman but are you really pushing the narrative that Henrik is incapable of thinking for himself?

Originally Posted by ricarda

I think he tried for years to gain the love of the Danish people, without much success (just look at Muhler's comments even prior to the retirement), but now, facing death sooner or later, he has decided to no longer give a damn and to end the charade he was probably forced to play for years and to express his opinions, even so the Danes (who tend to totally lack self-criticism) may not approve of it. While I am not particularly fond of Henrik, I can understand his frustration.

That's a pretty brash generalisation to make, don't you think?

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by kalnel

This reminds me a little of how women with any kind of title behave. If a woman doctor marries a man without some kind of "title," she's still "Dr. Jones," even if he is "Mr. Smith."

Women who hold a Dr title will use the surname they earned the title/qualification under. Anyone with a PhD will receive a letter from their university that authorises the use of the title Dr. When I received my PhD, I can use my Dr title with my maiden and married surname.

I rarely use Mrs title. It's not arrogance, but rather that I earned my Dr title through a lot of hardwork and sacrifice.

Royal titles are a different kettle of fish. First of all, one can lose a royal title, whereas academic titles are for life

Originally Posted by ricarda

Actually the "usual" press meeting at Cayx was cancelled long ago and there hasn't been one for years (the photoshoot on the occasion of Henrik's 80th birthday was an exception). So I really don't see why there was an extra statement that there wouldn't be one this year. As I also didn't quite see why it was necessary to announce Henrik's retirement in the new year's speech. It is my impression that Margrethe has done her best to present herself as a woman who is let down by her husband (very different to Queen Elizabeth) and to turn this whole quite natural event into a scandal. There is definitely a war going on between those two.
But as in most breakdowns of a marriage it's never just one side who is to be blamed. Margrethe is an extremely self-centered woman as it was IMO very evident at this year's photoshoot in Graasten.
At the beginning of their marriage she insisted on speaking French with her husband when it would have been good for him to learn Danish quickly, again very self-centered. And no, Henrik is not used to getting his own way, quite on the contrary, tommy100.
I think he tried for years to gain the love of the Danish people, without much success (just look at Muhler's comments even prior to the retirement), but now, facing death sooner or later, he has decided to no longer give a damn and to end the charade he was probably forced to play for years and to express his opinions, even so the Danes (who tend to totally lack self-criticism) may not approve of it. While I am not particularly fond of Henrik, I can understand his frustration.

I do not not where to begin with this statement. All kinds of wrong...

[leidi]

Originally Posted by Nordic

I was wondering about that statement about the long ago cancelled press meeting at Cayx too.

I also agree with the "self-centered". I have always had the same impression about both of them.

Yep, same as Albert and Paola in Belgium, the kind of couples that cared more for each other than for their children

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by ricarda

Actually the "usual" press meeting at Cayx was cancelled long ago and there hasn't been one for years (the photoshoot on the occasion of Henrik's 80th birthday was an exception). So I really don't see why there was an extra statement that there wouldn't be one this year. As I also didn't quite see why it was necessary to announce Henrik's retirement in the new year's speech. It is my impression that Margrethe has done her best to present herself as a woman who is let down by her husband (very different to Queen Elizabeth) and to turn this whole quite natural event into a scandal. There is definitely a war going on between those two.
But as in most breakdowns of a marriage it's never just one side who is to be blamed. Margrethe is an extremely self-centered woman as it was IMO very evident at this year's photoshoot in Graasten.
At the beginning of their marriage she insisted on speaking French with her husband when it would have been good for him to learn Danish quickly, again very self-centered. And no, Henrik is not used to getting his own way, quite on the contrary, tommy100.
I think he tried for years to gain the love of the Danish people, without much success (just look at Muhler's comments even prior to the retirement), but now, facing death sooner or later, he has decided to no longer give a damn and to end the charade he was probably forced to play for years and to express his opinions, even so the Danes (who tend to totally lack self-criticism) may not approve of it. While I am not particularly fond of Henrik, I can understand his frustration.

An interesting perspective...

While QMII, like everybody else, has her flaws, I do think you are a little unfair.

I cannot imagine QMII putting any personal grudges she may have towards anyone above her duty as monarch, that would be out of character. And there is no way in this world QMII would seek to provoke a scandal. I flatly refuse to believe that.
PH himself has admitted that he is sorry he did not learn to master Danish early on. While they did indeed speak mostly French in private, I have never seen anywhere that is was on QMII's insistence. You can argue that She should have insisted or encouraged PH to study Danish more intensively, but she was a woman in love. If anyone are to blame it might better be Frederik IX who did not insist on his son-in-law learning Danish fast enough.

Originally Posted by Terri Terri

I must admit that this statement intrigued me. How was the Queen self-centered during the photo shoot? After all, isn't the ring rider parade a traditional event for presenting flower bouquets to the Queen? In addition, it's an interesting point of view about a war going on between the regent couple, that does not bode well for the monarchy.

QMII is the Monarch, she is in the center of attention.

Does she like it? Now perhaps, I don't know. She certainly didn't beforehand!
Back in the 70 it was a shy, insecure and awkward QMII the public saw.

Apart from PH's little obsession and the odd difference of opinion there is between all married couples, it's not my impression at all that they have been competing for attention, when on the job, or tried to hold each other down. On the contrary actually.
And there are plenty of photographic evidence of warm moments between the two of them.
They have both admitted to be very stubborn, but that pretty much runs in the family.

As for the Gråsten photoshoot. We discussed that in the relevant thread and I think we in general believed it could have been handled better. Something like QMII and Mary getting flowers from the adult riders and the children getting flowers from the children who were on horseback or cycle. It was a bit confusing as to who should have which bouquets.

Originally Posted by kalnel

If I'm remembering the whole New Year's Eve thing right, part of Henrik's annoyance was that the event was being held in "his house." In addition to all the stuff about rank, he was furious that he could be bumped out of the role of host in his own home.

(I seem to remember a Point de Vue interview where he said as much.)

I think it's a little harsh to say that the Queen is self-centered. She strikes me more as "job-centered," which seems appropriate for someone with such an important, life-long job. No different from a doctor, minister, fire fighter, or any other person who has to drop everything to do their job.

I thought it was a little odd that neither the Queen nor Frederik left Graasten to spend time with Henrik when he was in the hospital, but royal families do things differently from the rest of us. Prince Philip has been in the hospital several times in recent years without getting a visit from the Queen.

The New Year Court for the Diplomatic Corps took place at Christiansborg, which is not a royal residence, but the DRF have large rooms there for representation.
PH welcomed the ambassadors on behalf of the family.
Frederik received the official well wishes from the doyen of the diplomatic corps, because he represented the head of state.
The Constitution says clearly that when the monarch is incapacitated, the Crown Prince automatically steps in as Regent, if he is in Denmark. So PH could not act as Rigsforstander, not with Frederik present.

The CP couple did visit PH. However, I do recall reading a headline somewhere that QMII did not visit PH. BB did not mention QMII visiting PH, so I think it's true that she didn't but I'm not sure.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Muhler

An interesting perspective...

While QMII, like everybody else, has her flaws, I don think you are a little unfair.

I cannot imagine QMII putting any personal grudges she may have towards anyone above her duty as monarch, that would be out of character. And there is no way in this world QMII would seek to provoke a scandal. I flatly refuse to believe that.
PH himself has admitted that he is sorry he did not learn to master Danish early on. While they did indeed speak mostly French in private, I have never seen anywhere that is was on QMII's insistence. You can argue that She should have insisted or encouraged PH to study Danish more intensively, but she was a woman in love. If anyone are to blame it might better be Frederik IX who did not insist on his son-in-law learning Danish fast enough.

As the proverb states: You can lead a horse to water...I do not blame anyone but Prince Henrik for not embracing the language and culture of his adopted country. We all saw with CP Mary how the Danish people were far from critical when she was conversing in Danish, just after she became Crown Princess.

Princess Marie stated in an interview prior to her wedding that she and Joachim speak French privately too, but she wanted to learn Danish to ensure she could communicate with the people in her adopted country.

As the consort to a future Queen, I am more likely to believe Prince Henrik was stubborn than anything else when it came for him to learn/master Danish. I believe this was proven when his former and current daughter-in-laws not only learned, but also mastered the Danish language in a few years of living in Denmark.

I understand that some people (including myself) find it hard to learn languages (Charlene of Monaco is an example too), but when you are surrounded and entrenched in the language and culture, it's amazing how quickly one can master a language.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Muhler

QMII is the Monarch, she is in the center of attention.

Does she like it? Now perhaps, I don't know. She certainly didn't beforehand!
Back in the 70 it was a shy, insecure and awkward QMII the public saw.

Apart from PH's little obsession and the odd difference of opinion there is between all married couples, it's not my impression at all that they have been competing for attention, when on the job, or tried to each other back. On the contrary actually.
And there are plenty of photographic evidence of warm moments between the two of them.
They have both admitted to be very stubborn, but that pretty much runs in the family.

As for the Gråsten photoshoot. We discussed that in the relevant thread and I think we in general believed it could have been handled better. Something like QMII and Mary getting flowers from the adult riders and the children getting flowers from the children who were on horseback or cycle. It was a bit confusing as to who should have which bouquets.

Muhler, I have a question. Was there ever the impression, or public outcry in the past that the then Princess Margrethe and DRF was far too accommodating with PH?

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

Muhler, I have a question. Was there ever the impression, or public outcry in the past that the then Princess Margrethe and DRF was far too accommodating with PH?

I'm not old enough to remember that she was while being a princess. The criticism in the 70 towards PH, was apart from him speaking "circus-Danish", that he came across as somewhat arrogant and that he tended to forget that QMII was supposed to walk in front, not PH.

There was a documentary in the mid 70's which everybody saw, because there was only one channel back then, which caused quite a public stir.
We saw PH riding with Joachim and Frederik. Frederik fell of the horse and clearly was not particularly keen on getting back on the horse. PH was seen to force Frederik back on the horse, even though he was crying his eyes out and wanted to walk away. - The general feeling in the public was that PH was way too strict.
It did leave a somewhat bad impression of PH as a dad. - That he actually happened to do the right thing, was not generally acknowledged back then, presumably because children riding was not as common in the 70's a later on. But PH was right, if you fall off a horse it's about getting back on the thing as soon as possible, in order not to develop a scare.

[CrownPrincessJava]

Originally Posted by Muhler

I'm not old enough to remember that she was while being a princess. The criticism in the 70 towards PH, was apart from him speaking "circus-Danish", that he came across as somewhat arrogant and that he tended to forget that QMII was supposed to walk in front, not PH.

There was a documentary in the mid 70's which everybody saw, because there was only one channel back then, which caused quite a public stir.
We saw PH riding with Joachim and Frederik. Frederik fell of the horse and clearly was not particularly keen on getting back on the horse. PH was seen to force Frederik back on the horse, even though he was crying his eyes out and wanted to walk away. - The general feeling in the public was that PH was way too strict.
It did leave a somewhat bad impression of PH as a dad. - That he actually happened to do the right thing, was not generally acknowledged back then, presumably because children riding was not as common in the 70's a later on. But PH was right, if you fall off a horse it's about getting back on the thing as soon as possible, in order not to develop a scare.

Thanks Muhler!

[iceflower]

.

As a reminder: Please stay on topic of this thread - thank you!

[Duc_et_Pair]

In all the too-easy blaming and shaming of Prince Henrik, let us remind that actually Margrethe and Henrik not only were a visible loving couple, they also had the luck that many of their interests and talents matched. Both are very artistic persons, the Queen has created beautiful artworks, together they translated a roman of Simone de Beauvoir from French to Danish. The Prince has couple of publications, varying from a princely cookbook to a book with translated French poems, from a book with photographs taken by the Prince to a book about French chefs at the Danish Court. The fabulous work they did to translate the Château de Caÿx into the wonderful estate it is now. From the establishment of a sculpture park at Marselisborg, even with his own sculptures, to his great achievements in Europa Nostra, an European-wide agency to preserve historic heritage for future generations, etc.

So -as no any other royal couple- the two must have been in a deep symbiosis, not only as married couple, but also as Royal Couple and very much also as deep soulmates. That is why this rift within the family is so remarkable and so sad. But the many, many contributions of the Prince (can we name any other Prince Consort with such a legacy?) does not deserve him the insulting label of "man-child" or "narcist".

[lucien]

The man is a mental case,a frustrated creature to say the very least.A q+++n without a crown that time after time knows how to draw attention to his poor figur of a husband,father & consort & nasty & extremely childish human.Denmark is big enough to find a far away spot to bury him.He's the risée the tout Europe Royale,and extremely embarrassing for his poor wife and children,well at least for Frederik,the other takes after his dad too much...what a situation.An eye-opener?no...not really,we all got a pretty good picture of this man over time,and he never failed to dissappoint us....discusting

Originally Posted by Muhler

Ready for an eye-opener?

H.K.H. Prins Henrik begraves ikke i Roskilde Domkirke | Kongehuset

This is official from the court. PH does not wish to be buried next to his wife at Roskilde Cathedral.
He will however be buried elsewhere in Denmark, the location is yet to be disclosed.

There have been rumors for the past few days that PH wished to be buried in France, but so far I've opted not to mention it, as it would be speculation.

QMII has known about PH's decision for some time and is accepting the decision.

-----------------

This is interesting!

There have been speculations for a while that the Regent Couple have de facto separated. This will add credence to that notion.
Unless there is a very good reason as to why, why will he not be buried next to his wife?
Especially since a pretty expensive and elaborate sarcophagus is being made for them, so that they can be interred together inside Roskilde Cathedral.

At present I can only conclude that there is now a complete break-up between PH and QMII.
I cannot help speculating that this is a kind of pay-back if you will from PH aimed at QMII.
This is going to hit the news big time here in DK!

The sympathy PH got from the public, be that fairly silent, from his recent surgery, will be gone by the end of this day.
It will be seen as PH once again letting down his wife, and the Monarch.
It is very likely also to be seen as another, shall we say, fit by PH.
Whatever, unless there are very good reasons for this decision, PH's popularity is going to drop like a rock!

It will also rekindle ongoing speculations about QMII abdicating, now going from "she has deserved it" to "perhaps it's better if M&F take over".

I rememberr the horse issue very well,poor poor Frederik!!Plus,one might well remember a speech Frederik gave,IIRC at a wedding anniversary of his parents in which he bluntly stated that if spanking showed the degree of love,he (Henrik),"must have loved us very much! "..

Plus his tantrum at the wedding of Willem Alexander and Máxima where he refused to attend with his wife,who is a Godmother of WA,just because H felt he was set back in protocol behind Frederik,the Heir to the Throne...So Margrethe & Frederik attended alone and H flew of to Caix...where he never should have left ever since....

Originally Posted by Muhler

I'm not old enough to remember that she was while being a princess. The criticism in the 70 towards PH, was apart from him speaking "circus-Danish", that he came across as somewhat arrogant and that he tended to forget that QMII was supposed to walk in front, not PH.

There was a documentary in the mid 70's which everybody saw, because there was only one channel back then, which caused quite a public stir.
We saw PH riding with Joachim and Frederik. Frederik fell of the horse and clearly was not particularly keen on getting back on the horse. PH was seen to force Frederik back on the horse, even though he was crying his eyes out and wanted to walk away. - The general feeling in the public was that PH was way too strict.
It did leave a somewhat bad impression of PH as a dad. - That he actually happened to do the right thing, was not generally acknowledged back then, presumably because children riding was not as common in the 70's a later on. But PH was right, if you fall off a horse it's about getting back on the thing as soon as possible, in order not to develop a scare.

[Archduchess Zelia]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

(...) the many, many contributions of the Prince (can we name any other Prince Consort with such a legacy?) does not deserve him the insulting label of "man-child" or "narcist".

The being a 83-year-old man who still feels the need to shame and embarrass his wife in public because he can't stand the idea of being inferior to her does though.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

The being a 83-year-old man who still feels the need to shame and embarrass his wife in public because he can't stand the idea of being inferior to her does though.

And more,much more...And achievements,more then any other Consort?Someone must have sat on an isolated island for decades ..I'd love to say more,and more to the exact point of this whole charade called Henrik de Monpenada but he's not worth getting banned for...

[carina_a]

First comment from CP Frederik on this issue today:

(Google Translate - if wrong please correct, Muhler)
"I only have to say that I'm really sorry for my father's decision in a lot of areas. More can not be said about this case at present. "

LIGE NU: Efter prins Henriks chokerende udmelding: Her er Frederiks første reaktion | BT Royale - www.bt.dk

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by lucien

And more,much more...And achievements,more then any other Consort?Someone must have sat on an isolated island for decades ..I'd love to say more,and more to the exact point of this whole charade called Henrik de Monpenada but he's not worth getting banned for...

It is all blabla but you do not counter the facts that actually for decades Henrik and Margrethe have been a great royal couple with quite a lot of cultural productivity. I can name another consort who brought the monarchy almost down with mafioso practices but nevertheless was almost buried with more honours and ceremonial than his spouse, so spare the qualifications to Henrik which do no justice to the many, many years as Prince Consort.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by carina_a

First comment from CP Frederik on this issue today:

(Google Translate - if wrong please correct, Muhler)
"I only have to say that I'm really sorry for my father's decision in a lot of areas. More can not be said about this case at present. "

LIGE NU: Efter prins Henriks chokerende udmelding: Her er Frederiks første reaktion | BT Royale - www.bt.dk

as a son he has to stay out of this, it's between his parents. as a future king, he can voice that he is not pleased with what is father decided or said.

it guess unless it damages the institution to an extent that cannot be tolerated any longer, they just have to swallow henrik's antics as bitter as they may be.