Prince Henrik's Plans for his Final Resting Place: August 2017

[camelot23ca]

These latest comments from Henrik are, well, I've actually sat here for a minute and I can't think of a word to describe them.

I don't think that Henrik is suffering from dementia, at least not anything that's been formally diagnosed yet. The early stages can be quite subtle and last for a long time, but if total strangers on the internet have been tossing around the possibility since Henrik's weirdly announced "retirement" I'm sure it's occurred to his family, as well, and they've consulted the appropriate people. If he had a diagnosis I think representatives for the DRF would at the very least quietly talk to friendly people like Trine Larsen and and ask that anything Henrik says not be published. And I think the wording of the DRF's statements would be very different.

So, unfortunately, if dementia is not a factor, I agree with those who say the time has come for QM to choose between her marriage and the crown. It's ridiculously unfair for her to be put in this situation, but there you are. Ironically, given all Henrik's talk about inequality, right now he and Margrethe are a unit. His actions reflect on her and vice versa. One of the benefits a monarchy is supposed to offer its citizens is stability, and the current royal couple, as a couple, can't offer that. At the very least there needs to be a public formal separation, ideally leading to divorce. Henrik can keep his title and his apanage if he agrees to retire completely, (and silently), from public life.

If Margrethe doesn't want to divorce him - and I can't believe I'm saying this - she should abdicate. This issue has been ongoing for years now - decades, really - and is only getting worse. Henrik has lost all sense of decorum and decent behaviour, it seems, and someone like that has no place occupying the position he does in Danish official life. One way or the other, it's time for him to go.

If QM chooses to remain married to him and tries to gloss over things I admit I'll lose some respect for her.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Queen Margarethe II such as Queen Sofia are perfect Actresses. Pictures wlll be taken at Cayx with great smiles !
It is the best thing to do to make an end at this disaster Situatiion!(already 393 posts)

I hope not. I agree that this cannot go on, QM has to either distance herself from her husband or from the throne. It seems to me that with his comments he is kind of enforcing a decision. But that decision cannot be granting him what he wants.

[wartenberg7]

Originally Posted by Nordic

Blackmail....Nice...
What an "interesting" two weeks QM has ahead of her at the Chateau.

I hope she doesn't cave in to his blackmail.

I wonder if he really believes, after all of this scandal he just causes, even if the Queen would give in, he would be respected and accepted as a King by the Danes....?! Never!

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

I hope not. I agree that this cannot go on, QM has to either distance herself from her husband or from the throne. It seems to me that with his comments he is kind of enforcing a decision. But that decision cannot be granting him what he wants.

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

[ladongas]

Long married couple. One spouse behaves obnoxiously. IMO, the real scandal would be a divorce. "In sickness and in health..."
Is the Royal Family's position really so fragilely situated that it can't withstand this?

[Osipi]

Originally Posted by wartenberg7

I wonder if he really believes, after all of this scandal he just causes, even if the Queen would give in, he would be respected and accepted as a King by the Danes....?! Never!

For all we know, if and when he would be declared King Consort, he may not be totally satisfied with just being equal to a reigning Queen. He may up and decide that he deserves better such as His Imperial Majesty, THE King Consort and Patriarch of the Danes.

People with overblown self importance rarely are satisfied. They keep pushing for more.

[Moonmaiden23]

I agree with ladongas that divorce is not the answer. It's too quick a fix in modern times for couples who run into obstacles, but Margrethe-and in fact her husband-are from a generation where marriage vows are taken quite literally.

They are nearing the finish line of their marriage and perhaps their lives, it doesn't make sense to throw in the towel at this point imo.

For better or for worse....and this unfortunately is an example of THE WORSE.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by Muhler

And unless PH is having mental issues. I object to him humiliating and embarrassing my Queen and behaving like a sorry excuse for a husband.
QMII too has worked hard and represented Denmark very well all her life.

Thank you Muhler for the Danish point of view, which of course is the only one that counts in the long run. Your Queen has had a brilliant life and much loved by her citizens. She should never be humiliated or embarrassed by her "want-to-be-better-titled" subject.....husband or not. In public life she is #1, private life, who cares.

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by ladongas

He's obviously slipping in and out of dementia. It's horrible for him, and it's horrible for the family. And when it's happening to your spouse/parent/child, you don't "put him away" immediately. People with dementia will say or do inappropriate things. But unless they're stripping off naked in public, or setting the house on fire, or mauling their caregivers, you don't put them "away".

You take away their car keys. You 'child-proof' the house. You hire companions to keep them clean, and safe, and somewhat socialized. Of course there will be embarrassing times, but careful management can reduce the number of times that occurs. PH does not lose all rights to be a human in society just because he has dementia. Those who have faced this: did you shut your mom away just because she was saying, or even doing embarrassing things, or did you wait until she could no longer live safely in the outside world?

I agree that PH is acting like a willfully rude old curmudgeon. But he doesn't deserve to be locked away just to preserve the feelings and dignity of his family, royal or not. Most families will find themselves annoyed and inconvenienced by a family member with dementia. That's life. And I would hope that the good people of Denmark would respect and admire their royal family for treating a "beloved" family member with tender respect. Feelings get hurt. That's life.

Protect and help him, but don't shut him away immediately.

Been There. Done That.

You are right. But the DRF is not a normal family. Whatever they do in public is potentially a question of national interests.

So PH has to be either shut up, I.e. "brought under control" or the press have to ignore ham. That could probably be arranged for the Danish press. After all exposing a man who may be experiencing a mental melt-down is not something their readers will reward them for.
But the foreign press won't have such qualms.

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

A change of the Constitution.
I described the process previously in this thread.

[Duke of Marmalade]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Could it be the case, and I'm just speculating here, that, contrary to Maria Olivia's assumption, Margrethe does indeed love Henri very much and would actually gladly make him king, but cannot do it for whatever political or legal reason, as was the case with Queen Victoria ?

My previous question remains unanswered: what would it take legally for Henri to be called "king" ?

I am sure she loves him very much or at least has done in the past but what Henrik is asking has nothing to do with love and if it was possible/a sensible thing to do Margrethe would have done the King thing many many years ago and Henrik must know this, no point trying to press her with this burial topic, it's unethical to come up with extortion like this.

[kalnel]

Question for Danish posters: Is there any point when the Prime Minister could weigh in? Could he make a statement saying that making Henrik king would be impossible? That could take some pressure off the Queen. (Or maybe that would be undesirable in Denmark?)

My bet is that Henrik's recent surgery put him into some kind of depression, or maybe he's feeling his mortality more than usual. He may also be annoyed that while he was in the hospital, his wife and son were on vacation at Graasten, not at his side.

But whatever it is, he is obviously trying to force things to a tipping point now. It's unfortunate that he is doing this in such a destructive and public way, but these things have obviously been simmering for a while.

If I were advising the Queen, I think I'd recommend the court announce that the Prince is permanently retiring to France and taking a "pension" (some kind of significantly reduced annual payment). Perhaps he would have to agree not to speak to the media in exchange for these payments.

She could also announce that they are separating or officially "living apart" without plans for divorce. If things calm down, everything could go on that way indefinitely. If he continues to act out, they could move on to divorce. (Reminds me of Charles and Diana!)

Or she could just shrug her shoulders and carry on without doing anything. Maybe she still loves him -- maybe she even agrees with him to an extent -- so she's not as bothered by all this as we imagine.

I've read about her admiration for Elizabeth II's youthful declaration about devoting her entire life to service, so I can't imagine this devoted queen would step down because of this flap.

[ladongas]

Originally Posted by Muhler

You are right. But the DRF is not a normal family. Whatever they do in public is potentially a question of national interests.

So PH has to be either shut up, I.e. "brought under control" or the press have to ignore ham. That could probably be arranged for the Danish press. After all exposing a man who may be experiencing a mental melt-down is not something their readers will reward them for.
But the foreign press won't have such qualms.

Well, it seems to me that all PH is doing is saying a version of the same thing he's been saying for years. He's not advocating riot, revolution, or murder. We have a prominent leader in our country who is frequently saying foolish, crazy, and dangerous things. And he can actually harm our well-being as a country.

PH is really only embarrassing himself. Surely the Danes realize that and will be accordingly understanding of his family's pain and suffering. You can't throw out the baby with the bath water! The RF will do their best to manage their problem, and the press will lose interest. IMO

[camelot23ca]

Originally Posted by ladongas

Long married couple. One spouse behaves obnoxiously. IMO, the real scandal would be a divorce. "In sickness and in health..."
Is the Royal Family's position really so fragilely situated that it can't withstand this?

If this episode illustrates nothing else, it's that every monarchy is fragile! Some more than others, and certainly the Danish royal family has built up a large bank of good will and respect with the Danish citizens. But that bank is not infinite and any sensible monarch knows it can be depleted quickly given the right set of circumstances. The family is very, very lucky Queen Margrethe and CP Frederik and Mary are so immensely well thought of and there is - at least currently - no serious republican sentiments or organized movement.

If this was Henrik's first harmful outburst I would be on board with "for better, for worse." Even if it was his second. But he's been picking at this issue, with complete disregard for the monarchy, not to mention his wife, for many years now. He's been subtly poisoning the well with more controlled comments in numerous interviews and now he sounds completely unhinged and has publicly and directly attacked the Danish Head of State. That is unacceptable from a member of the Royal Family, no matter what else is going on within the, (small f), family.

There is another acceptable option, IMO: a public and sincere apology from Henrik, with a promise to let this issue go. It has a snowball's chance in hell of happening, but it would go a long way toward settling things down.

[iceflower]

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Once again some off-topic posts had to be removed. Thanks for your understanding!

[alicia]

We only know PH's side, through his public outbursts. We don't know the Queen's. His disturbing rant against her suggests that she has shown good judgement in not conferring the title of king consort on him. She is an intelligent woman. She must have had good reason not to, in spite of him putting her under enormous pressure to do so, over many years. He clearly blames her for not giving it to him.

The man has no class.

Thanks, again, Muhler. I can only imagine how upsetting all this is for Danish people.

[LadyRohan]

Again, this thread is about Prince Henrik of Denmark and his absurd plans to punish his wife for not breaking the long-established tradition of not making spouses, royal, noble or commoner alike, a King-Consort.
The Prince is making it clear through his latest interview that he is far more preoccupied feeling sorry for himself and punishing his wife for an institutionalized discrepancy that is harder to change, due to the inherent rank of the title 'King' in comparison to 'Queen'.
As many have said over and over, the debate about the title is one thing. He has carried that torch periodically for a long time.
However, the retribution heaped on wife and family by refusing shared burial not just with his wife, but his sovereign, occupying the most esteemed position in the kingdom and carrier of a thousand year old history, is petty. It's small, and it's indefensible.

To defend it by pointing to his merits as consorts and tasks performed during his long tenure, can in no way negate the damage he is currently doing.

Again, the Queen will not abdicate as a result of this. She can't accept being publicly blackmailed by her husband or anyone, and I am now more sure than before that there will, unfortunately, be a formal separation of the regent couple.

The Prince has received every blessing in life. A visibly loving wife, an adopted country that has accepted him with open arms, a good lifestyle, an elevated title and a privileged life. If he wanted to fight the good fight for titular equality in monarchies, that's one thing, but that's not what he is doing. He is selfishly tormenting, taunting and embarrassing his wife, the Queen, his family and his country.

His place in Danish public life is now toxic, and only by his own doing.
He should withdraw from public life completely, and retire to France. It is the only good thing he can do at this point.

[wyevale]

Protect and help him

By all means, but if the press seek to interview him "HRH is not at home", If he issues written statements, they mysteriously fail to reach the outside World...

The Danish Throne is of rather greater importance to Danes than pandering to the wishes of a 'failing mind' no matter how much sympathy there may be for his 'medical condition [IF any].

[suztav]

Even though Prince Henrik has been on the "king" rant for years, the fierceness of his most recent outbursts are very troubling indeed. I haven't thought that he has looked well for years -- look at his stomach! Perhaps he knows that he is a very sick man and these outbursts are a part of his frustration? It's not as if he didn't know this 50 years ago when he married her! It's not as if he has never met Prince Philip who is basically in the same boat -- as was Prince Claus in The Netherlands. I don't think QM will divorce him. However, I wouldn't be surprised if we see the family distancing themselves from him. Very very sad!

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by LadyRohan

Again, this thread is about Prince Henrik of Denmark and his absurd plans to punish his wife for not breaking the long-established tradition of not making spouses, royal, noble or commoner alike, a King-Consort.
The Prince is making it clear through his latest interview that he is far more preoccupied feeling sorry for himself and punishing his wife for an institutionalized discrepancy that is harder to change, due to the inherent rank of the title 'King' in comparison to 'Queen'.

Just as a side comment, I don't think there is a legal discrepancy anymore in inherent rank between the titles of 'King' and (reigning) "Queen" . Specifically, when the 2009 amendment to the Danish Act of Succession repeatedly inserted the words "eller en regerende dronning" after "konge", it implied implicitly that the word "King" in the Constitution Act should be interpreted as meaning "reigning Queen" if the person who occupies the throne under the Act of Succession is a female.

The Swedish constitution was even more explicit in that regard. The 1974 Swedish Instrument of Government refers mostly to "the Head of State" rather than "the King" , but an amendment to the Instrument of Government passed in 2010 clarifies that

5 § Konungen eller drottning som enligt successionsordningen innehar Sveriges tron är rikets statschef. Lag (2010:1408).

Likewise, the amended Swedish Act of Succession makes it clear that provisions applying to the "King" also apply to the "Queen" when the head of state is a Queen.

2 § Vad i denna successionsordning är stadgat om Konungen skall, om Drottning är statschef, gälla henn

In other words, since now both "King" and "Queen" can mean "Head of State" in the constitution, the same objection to the reigning queen's husband being called "king" could be raised against calling the reigning king's wife a "queen". Personally, however, I don't think there is any conflict at all as "king/queen consort" is different from "reigning king/queen ", but that is a different discussion altogether.

PS: It is also worth noting that both the Canadian Constitution Act 1867 (formerly the British North America Act 1867) and The Commonwealth of Australia Act 1900 use only the word "Queen" rather than "King" (as they were written when Queen Victoria was the British monarch), with the remark though that references to "the Queen" in the text also applied to her heirs and successors in the sovereignty of the UK. That didn't prevent, however, Queen Alexandra, or Queen Mary, or Queen Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) from being called "queen" either in the UK, or in Australia, or in Canada, so the point is moot to me.

[royal rob]

I know he has always had a problem about not being king but I feel this is more. I think he isn't well and most likely suffering from Alzheimer's. I guess we will see what happens but I want to give him the benefit of doubt. Either way sad times ahead for the family