Prince Henrik Diagnosed with Dementia: September 2017 & Further Health Issues - Page 5

MARG · #81 09-08-2017, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muhler

https://www.bt.dk/royale/prins-henri...t-andet-er-han

PH's younger brother Etienne de Laborde de Monpezet, has been quoted for saying: EWe can tell he has problems. One moment he's not quite there, if you will, but the next moment he's completely normal".

https://www.bt.dk/danmark/prins-henr...ke-det-paa-ham
PH's very close friend, Erik Brandt, says: "I have been able to tell when we have been together. I have. But we have sort of dismissed it. I have perceived it as mood-swings".

Yes, those are the definite indicators and if you are a close family it is very, very, easy to not even notice overly much and put it down to age, health, or just being a grumpy old man or woman.

The saddest thing is that after a proper diagnosis the family members who have often been out of patience or short or even hurt and wounded now see all of that through a whole different lens. They will beat themselves up for not seeing it, for how they felt and what they said. Worse, they will wonder what was him and what was the disease.

A close friend of mine whose brother had Altzheimer's always used to say that on the bright side, every day is a new day but I think Henrik has a way to go before he doesn't know his family.

My prayers are for their entire family, for harder days are sadder days and they can go on for years.

Denville · #82 09-08-2017, 05:19 AM

well I thought this at the time,. I know that he's often been unhappy abot the business of his not being King, but the way hes reacted recently seemed OTT and while it is a problem of his, his behaviour in going on about it, etc was clearly facilitated by his illness.

Skippy · #83 09-08-2017, 05:59 AM

Why would you (you in general) feel sorry or be ashamed about the things you said before this was announced?
You didn't know or at the most suspected it, it was how you felt. Never be ashamed of how you feel/felt at the time.

I believe it's his character and made worse by his condition. And I think Queen Margrethe has that much grit that she's long used to any of his moods and has learnt to surf the wave. Along with his family, they know him better than anyone else.
I don't feel sorry for Prince Henrik - that's (probably far-fetched and beyond comparision, but I can't think of anything else right now) like feeling sorry for someone because he's in a wheelchair - I do sympathize with him. It must be horrifying not being able to trust your own brain.

Duc_et_Pair · #84 09-08-2017, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLLK

The late Queen Juliana of the Netherlands suffered from Alzheimer's as well and did not appear in public during the last years of her life. Her last public appearance was at the wedding of her grandson Prince Maruits and Princess Marlilene.

I'm so sorry that Prince Henrik, the Queen and their family have received such news.

In an interview Prince Bernhard, her spouse, told that in the end she did not recognize anyone anymore. We may assume Juliana had no idea anymore she was Queen of the Netherlands from 1948 until 1980. By the way, like Prince Henrik, also Queen Juliana had a personality which sometimes was strongwilled and hard to steer by. "Eccentric" some would say, in some aspects.

Archduchess Zelia · #85 09-08-2017, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

In an interview Prince Bernhard, her spouse, told that in the end she did not recognize anyone anymore. We may assume Juliana had no idea anymore she was Queen of the Netherlands from 1948 until 1980. By the way, like Prince Henrik, also Queen Juliana had a personality which sometimes was strongwilled and hard to steer by. "Eccentric" some would say, in some aspects.

I generally like Henrik for a lot of reasons (that don't entail his tantrums about wanting to be King) but I don't quite think you're being fair to Juliana here. As far as I know, she never threw hissy fits because she couldn't get what she wanted – actually, her kind of strong will was quite the opposite of Henrik's kind of strong will.

Duke of Marmalade · #86 09-10-2017, 02:34 PM

My father in law suffered from dementia for over 8 years before he died, thinking back I cannot even say if he was fully aware of his condition at some point during this journey. In the beginning there was kind of denial and after the diagnosis it was already too late to have a constructive discussion because he could not understand anymore what the diagnosis meant.
It might be the same with Henrik. Even though this diagnosis is hard on every family, the DRF have the luxury not having to bother with staff/doctors looking after Henrik, they have help with the 'dirty work' that can drive people into exhaustion, physically and mentally.
Thinking about the sorry state that my FIL slipped into, I hope they will keep Henrik out of the public eye as much as possible with the illness progressing for the sake of his dignity that has already been affected.
The fact that he is still visible and talking controversially to the press (what hopefully stops now) tells me that he is currently in the 'denial' phase, he should completely retire as soon as possible.

Countessmeout · #87 09-10-2017, 02:47 PM

My family unfortunately has a history of early onset dementia. Both my Nana and my dads eldest brother suffered/suffer from it. It unfortunately set in quite quickly with both. I remember my Nana coming to live with us for a year and she was in great health (she was only in her seventies and the other women in her family lived to be close to a hundred and healthy till day they died). But within months of her going home, she started showing signs. After she was taken advantage of by a family member, selling her house for way too little so they could get a loan, my dad stepped in as her power of attorney. Within a year or so she was in a nursing home.

Her eldest son suffered a massive heart attack two years ago. That comes from their dads side. My dad and his brothers were the first men in their family to pass 61 without a heart attack (most died, grandpa just short of 61. one great uncle is alive and quite healthy but he has had heart attacks). But after the heart attack, unfortunately dementia set in. He has had to be placed in a home. Its not a full care home, he has some independence still, but its progressive home. So as he gets worse, he will move through stages in the complex until in a full nursing situation. \

Dementia is hard and at times scary for any family. Fortunately for the royals they have the money and help to deal with it. But its still not an easy situation. My thoughts with the entire family, especially the queen, but also his sons and grandchildren in this hard time.

I guess I don't follow enough to have seen the signs in his comments. Honestly what I read of him I thought him a bit like Philip in his attitude. But I was surprised he decided to retire from duties. I guess this explains.

Duke of Marmalade · #88 09-10-2017, 03:03 PM

Yes, it's a horrible desease, it must be difficult to have more cases than one in the family!
I only have the case of my FIL but it was such a profound experience because it went on for so long. Of course you have to accept what is thrown at you but for myself I would think the faster it progresses and leads to death the better. It might sound cruel but I was absolutely horrified by watching such a strong man turning into a helpless man becoming a child again. It's especially hard for the families/those who care because those who suffer may live in happy ignorance of their state depending on how far the desease has already progressed.
In the end, after over 8 years, nobody was mourning, everybody was glad that it was over, for my DIL who suffered and for ourselves who cared. We had the feeling that he was not the person anymore we knew but had become a stranger in his own world.

By the way, my own father had ALS, quite the opposite but equally cruel, the brain is there 100% and the person is fully aware of a painful death by being paralized.

I hope the DRF find the right way to deal with Henrik and to protect his dignity because he is a public person.

ladongas · #89 09-10-2017, 03:12 PM

Even though his condition has only been recently revealed to the public, it is quite likely that the family has known for a long time, possibly even for several years. Some forms of dementia sneak up on you- a series of small strokes will take their toll a little bit at a time. We're seldom surprised when an older person becomes a bit forgetful, and we don't really consider it to be the onset of dementia- it's a 'senior moment'! But true dementia progresses until the family can no longer ignore it.

(My mother frequently misplaced her keys. I once found them in the toaster oven along with several pairs of toenail clippers. Mom: "Why that's just crazy! Chuckle." Me: "Yup! (chuckle).")

It seems as though PH is able to maintain a somewhat normal demeanor most of the time, acting appropriately. I doubt he will have to be completely controlled right away. His family can still have some good, enjoyable times with him.

Osipi · #90 09-10-2017, 03:12 PM

I'm sure that the DRF will do everything they humanly can to ensure that Henrik gets not only the best possible care that he can but also make it that his quality and enjoyment of life is the best it can possibly be.

A very good book I'd recommend for anyone wishing to know more about how Alzheimer's and dementia affects not only the person afflicted but their loved ones around them is "Love Never Sleeps" by Mary Summer Rain.

As this disease progresses, the brain becomes more and more affected and as we take for granted that our bodies run and function without us even having to think about it such as our heart beating, our reflexes to pain and such, its seems incredible to us that the brain can "forget" to do these things and the patient acts accordingly. Touching a hot stove burner without instantly recoiling from the pain becomes a serious threat. Eventually, the brain does forget to tell the body to even breathe.

Duc_et_Pair · #91 09-10-2017, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia

I generally like Henrik for a lot of reasons (that don't entail his tantrums about wanting to be King) but I don't quite think you're being fair to Juliana here. As far as I know, she never threw hissy fits because she couldn't get what she wanted – actually, her kind of strong will was quite the opposite of Henrik's kind of strong will.

Oh yes, oh yes, Queen Juliana had numerous clashes with the Government, for an example the Faith Healer at the Court rocked her kingship. She also refused to assent death penalties for Nazi war criminals convicted by special tribunals, which clashed inside the executive power (the Government) on it's turn clashing with the legislative power (Parliament, which enabled these tribunals) and the juridical power (Justice, which had spoken). Juliana also was known for filibustering when Acts, approved by Parliament, or Decrees approved by the Cabinet, were waiting for her assent when she did not agree, despite the total lack of any democratic mandate on her side to act like that. When Prince Bernhard was suspected to have been open for briberies by Lockheed (the Prince lobbying for the purchase of 220 fighter jets inside the Cabinet) it was Juliana which blocked the rule of law to keep her husband out of hands of Justice. Oh boy, Prince Henrik's erratics are nothing compated with Juliana's.

rominet09 · #92 09-10-2017, 08:10 PM

I Wonder how awful it must be for him, as he is still able to understand to know that everybody in the world know of his problem.....

MARG · #93 09-10-2017, 11:16 PM

Having to "Go Public" must have been a tough decision. Henrik's public behaviour must have been a nightmare but I think the family were in denial as well. To me that is the only explanation for his unrestrained outbursts and especially his horrendous railing at his wife.

But the fact that he was allowed to continue on without restraint speaks of the family's indecision, feeling or believing that something was wrong but yet not taking steps to confirm it and act accordingly. That his condition is surprisingly more advanced than many of his age also speaks to that indecision and also Henrik's behaviour.

**CrownPrincessJava** · #94 09-11-2017, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG

Having to "Go Public" must have been a tough decision. Henrik's public behaviour must have been a nightmare but I think the family were in denial as well. To me that is the only explanation for his unrestrained outbursts and especially his horrendous railing at his wife.

But the fact that he was allowed to continue on without restraint speaks of the family's indecision, feeling or believing that something was wrong but yet not taking steps to confirm it and act accordingly. That his condition is surprisingly more advanced than many of his age also speaks to that indecision and also Henrik's behaviour.

An person who is an adult and is, at the time, of legal capacity can refuse medical intervention, unless they are a danger to themselves or the public. It would not surprise me if his immediate and extended family have tried to persuade him to get assessed for many months, or even years, but Prince Henrik refused.

I suspect other incidents occurred around his hospitalisation and outburst that meant that assessing him for degenerative brain diseases (i.e. dementia, Alzheimers) was no longer his decision. My reasoning behind this opinion is when it was stated that his cognitive functions had deteriorated more than expected.

Nordic · #95 09-11-2017, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

An person who is an adult and is, at the time, of legal capacity can refuse medical intervention, unless they are a danger to themselves or the public. It would not surprise me if his immediate and extended family have tried to persuade him to get assessed for many months, or even years, but Prince Henrik refused.
.

Exactly. It could be, that his family has known something was wrong but he has refused to cooperate until now. Can you even do an assessment like that without the patient cooperating?

M. Payton · #96 09-11-2017, 02:11 AM

In the recent pictures when PH was out just a day or so ago, can't remember what the event was yet Frederik was giving his dad a hug.........I saw a look of not really there in PH's eyes and felt such a sense of sadness for Frederik as he knows he is losing his dad. I so wish this had not been the case with PH and that he just was going to be okay.......I so adore Queen Daisy and her family and wish them the very best for these are going to be very hard times for the entire family.

Katrianna · #97 09-11-2017, 02:21 AM

:previous

The photos may have been from a funeral of a close friend of Henrik's that both he and Frederik attended.

M. Payton · #98 09-11-2017, 02:35 AM

Thank you Katrianna,

That was the time period I was thinking of and could not remember. I just saw PH in a very different light this time and it was sad to see him like this.

**CrownPrincessJava** · #99 09-11-2017, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordic

Exactly. It could be, that his family has known something was wrong but he has refused to cooperate until now. Can you even do an assessment like that without the patient cooperating?

I'm not sure about Denmark, but in Australia, if family or medical practitioners believe there is just-cause for a mental health assessment, one can be performed without the consent of the patient. It all comes down to if the person is exhibiting behaviours that can cause themselves, or others harm. His outburst regarding his being King consort, his burial wishes etc wouldn't be enough. I believe other incidents have occurred for an assessment to be conducted.

Elenath · #**100** 09-11-2017, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrownPrincessJava

I'm not sure about Denmark, but in Australia, if family or medical practitioners believe there is just-cause for a mental health assessment, one can be performed without the consent of the patient. It all comes down to if the person is exhibiting behaviours that can cause themselves, or others harm. His outburst regarding his being King consort, his burial wishes etc wouldn't be enough. I believe other incidents have occurred for an assessment to be conducted.

I think laws in Denmark and The Netherlands are not that different and my family are in the same position as the DRF. We believe my father has onset dimentia but he refuses to see his doctor. And his doctor refusus to examine him unless he gives consent. Things would be different if it were a medical necessity but it isn’t. This “limbo” doesn’t change untill dimentia gets so bad he becomes a danger to himself and those around him. At that point the courts would need to get involved. Frustrating to see...