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04-16-2004, 05:40 AM
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Newbie
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Titles of the Dutch Royals
Can anyone tell me what Jonkhur or the female version, Jonkhvrow, mean?
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04-25-2004, 02:32 PM
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Aristocracy
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aerdenhout, Netherlands
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Jonkheer/ jonkvrouwe is the lowest noble title in The Netherlands and Belgium, lower than baron/baroness; best compared to the untitled nobility in Germany. When a jonkheer marries his wife will not even become a jonkvrouwe...just plain mrs. X (unless she has some titles of her own).
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06-17-2004, 07:58 AM
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Royal Highness
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I was reading in Hello! that the children of Johan-Friso and Mabel will be Dukes/Duchesses, and that the Children of Constantijn and Laurentien would become Count/Countess. Why would J-F and Mabel's children become Dukes/Duchesses? Arn't they higher than Count/Countess? Why would their children out rank Constantijn and Laurentien? I don't get it? Or is a count ranked higher than a Duke?
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06-17-2004, 10:42 AM
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Courtier
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 I thought that Friso and Mabel's children would be counts/countesses...
__________________
*~* In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock. *~* *~* Judge not those who try and fail. Judge those who fail to try. *~* Sweden's Picture of the Month Represenative
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06-17-2004, 02:19 PM
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Aristocracy
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I think that the children of prince Johan Friso and princess Mabel will be count and countes of Orange-Nassau, just like the children of prince Constantij and princess Laurentien. The only difference is that Constantijn and Laurentien have the title Prince and Princess of the Netherlands, and Johan Friso and Mabel don´t have that.
The newly weds only have Prince and Princess of Orange nassau.
Besides, In the Dutch Nobility we don´t have dukes anymore.
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06-17-2004, 08:36 PM
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Royal Highness
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Thank You for you replies. Royalty Magazine... Was wrong!
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06-18-2004, 12:53 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Trust me you've never heard of it..., United States
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Royalty Magazine is wrong more often than not. It has great pictures but isn't known for it's accuracy.
All the children of The Prince of Orange (WA) and Princess Maxima will be His/Her Royal Highness Prince/ss of The Netherlands, Princ/ess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkeer/Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.
The children of Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentine will be The High Born Lord/Lady Count/ess of Orange Nassau, Jonkeer/Jonkvrouw van Amsberg with hereditary nobility they also have succession rights within the second degree of kinship to whomever the current monarch may be.
The future children of Prince Friso and Princess Mabel of Orange-Nassau with be The High Born Lord/Lady Count/ess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkeer/Jonkvrouw van Orange-Nassau van Amsberg with the hereditary noblity (the hereditary title Count of Orange-Nassau was bestowed on Friso) but with no succession rights.
Only the sons of Queen Beatrix have been allowed to pass on the name of Orange-Nassau.
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06-18-2004, 02:22 AM
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Nobility
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When did the grandchildren of the Dutch Monarch on the male line be styled "counts and countesses"??? When did this happen. I dont think it was like that historically. They should've also been Prince ans Princesses.
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06-18-2004, 03:28 AM
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Courtier
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Their haven't been any male line grand children in well over 100 years. So, it would be hard to tell what the precident was for male line grand children.
Willem III (1817-1890) was the last male monarch. He was actually the last male member of the Dutch Royal House that didn't marry into it. He was predeceased by his sons Willem 1840-1879, Maurits 1843-1850, and Alexander 1851-1884. It as his youngest child and only daugter Wilhelmina that succeeded him. There have been only females from the time of Wilhelmina until the daughters of Queen Juliana had sons.
They would have been prince/ss but the government downsized the family and even put a cap on the succession.
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06-18-2004, 05:18 AM
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Aristocracy
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The goverment of the Netherlands wanted that the children of Contstantijn and later Friso would have a other tittle than Prince or Princess. They thought that there were too many princes and princesses, and the goverment had to be responsible for the royals. At that time there were 17 members of the royal family.
If Willem Alexander becomes a king, the Magriet line will not be a part of the royal house anymore, The tittles of Magriet´s children are also not hereditary.
And so the goverment gave the tittle count and countess to the grandchildren of queen Beatrix, except for the children of Willem ALexander
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06-20-2004, 10:20 AM
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Courtier
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The Royal Family is different than the Royal House in the Netherlands. The government has ministerial responsiblity for only the royal House not the Family. The royal family is quite large and includes all the queen's sisters and also their children/grand children while the royal house is regulated to those with succession rights and their spouses (plus ex-monarch and spouse).
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07-04-2004, 04:37 AM
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Courtier
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1. By Royal Decree of February 16th, 1966 is declared that the children from this marriage (then Crown Princess Beatrix and Prince Claus) would bear the style and title HRH Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands, Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer (Jonkvrouwe) van Amsberg.
2. By Royal Decree of January 25th, 2002 is declared that the children from this marriage (Crown Prince Willem-Alexander and Crown Princess Maxima) will bear the style and title HRH Prince (Princess) of the Netherlands, Prince (Princess) of Orange-Nassau.
3. The marriage of Prince Johan Friso to Mabel Wisse Smit was conducted without the necessary permission of the Parliament. Prince Johan Friso was therefore automatically declined of the right of succession for himself and his descendants.
By Royal Decree of March 19th is declared that from the moment of his marriage Prince Johan Friso retained the personal title Prince of Orange-Nassau with the style Royal Highness and received the hereditary title count as well as the surname "van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg.
4. By Royal Decree of May 11th, 2001 is declared that the children from this marriage (Prince Constantijn and Princess Laurentein) will bear the title Graaf if male (Gravin if female) van Oranje-Nassau, Jonkheer if male (Jonkvrouwe if female) van Amsberg.
A distinction is made in the Netherlands between the royal house and the royal family. Not every member of the Orange-Nassau family is a member of the royal house. Membership of the royal house is restricted by Act of Parliament to the head of state, the former head of state, the members of the royal family in line for the throne, and their spouses. The monarch is head of the royal house. The present royal house consists of Queen Beatrix and her sons - Princes Willem-Alexander and Constantijn, Princess Catharina-Amalia, the daughter of Prince Willem-Alexander, countess Eloise and count Claus-Casimir, the daughter and son of Prince Constantijn, the Queen's father Prince Bernhard, the Queen's younger sister Princess Margriet, her husband Mr Pieter van Vollenhoven, and their four sons Princes Maurits, Bernhard, Pieter-Christiaan and Floris, and the Princesses Máxima, Laurentien, Marilène and Annette.
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08-18-2007, 08:58 PM
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Aristocracy
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Location: Aerdenhout, Netherlands
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So how many different ways of styling does the family have at present? I believe it is a great mess without much logic at the moment.
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08-19-2007, 05:16 AM
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Super Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena
So how many different ways of styling does the family have at present? I believe it is a great mess without much logic at the moment.
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children of Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus:
HRH Prince/Princess of the Netherlands, Prince/Princess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer/Jonkvrou van Amsberg
Prince Friso lost his title Prince of the Netherlands because he married without the consent of the parliament and was created a Count of Orange-Nassau which is heriditary in the male line
children of Prince Willem-Alexander:
HRH Prince/Princess of the Netherlands, Prince/Princess of Orange-Nassau
children of Prince Friso and Prince Constantijn:
Count/Countess of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer/Jonkvrouw van Amsberg
children of Princess Margriet:
HH Prince/Princess of Orange-Nassau, van Vollenhoven (this titles are personal and not heriditary)
daughters of Queen Juliana:
HRH Princess of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess zur Lippe-Biesterfeld
Princess Irene and Pricness Christina keept her title Princess of the Netherlands when the married without the consent of the Parliament (in contrary to their nephew Friso) because the act of the membeship of the Royal House was changed later so that members of the royal House who marry without the Consnet of the Parliament lose this title.
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Stefan
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08-19-2007, 09:19 AM
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And to create even more confusion: Princess Irene refers to herself as plain Miss van Lippe Biesterfeld. The children of Parince Maurits have the last name van Lippe Biesterfeld van Vollenhoven, while those of his brothers are just plain van Vollenhoven.
I believe the titles of the children of Friso and Constantijn were slightly different too, something to do with the van Amsberg part, but I don´t have time to look that up now.
In over-all the royal family has about 10 different ways of styling, which is a mess indeed.
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08-19-2007, 02:55 PM
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Majesty
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Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
And to create even more confusion: Princess Irene refers to herself as plain Miss van Lippe Biesterfeld. The children of Parince Maurits have the last name van Lippe Biesterfeld van Vollenhoven, while those of his brothers are just plain van Vollenhoven.
I believe the titles of the children of Friso and Constantijn were slightly different too, something to do with the van Amsberg part, but I don´t have time to look that up now.
In over-all the royal family has about 10 different ways of styling, which is a mess indeed.
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The van Lippe Biesterfeld name was given to the children of the eldest son of Princess Margriet in honour of Prince Bernhard,ofcourse,to see the name wouldn't phase out in The Netherlands.
The children of Friso and Mabel are Countess of Oranje-Nassau,Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.
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08-19-2007, 03:09 PM
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Administrator
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Are you sure that they are also Jonkheer/Jonkvrouw? I thought they were Counts van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg, while Constantijns children are Counts of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer/Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.
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08-19-2007, 07:23 PM
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Majesty
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Are you sure that they are also Jonkheer/Jonkvrouw? I thought they were Counts van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg, while Constantijns children are Counts of Orange-Nassau, Jonkheer/Jonkvrouw van Amsberg.
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Quite sure,yes.Friso's and Constantijn's children have the same titles:
The Dutch Royal House
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11-16-2007, 10:40 AM
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Administrator
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Well, I stumbled over the complete title of HM The Queen:
Beatrix Wilhelmina Armgard, Queen of The Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, Duchess of Limburg; Marchioness of Veere and Vlissingen; Countess of Buren, Culemborg, Diez, Katzellenbogen, Leerdam, Spiegelberg and Vianden; Viscountessof Antwerpen; Baroness of Beilstern, Breda, Cranendonk, Land of Cuijk, Diest, Eindhoven, the city of Grave, Liesveld, Warnelou, and IJsselstein; Ladyof Baarn, Bredevoort, Borculo, Bütgenbach, Dasburg, Ter Eem, Geertruidenberg, Heilo, Hooge en Lage Zwaluwe, Klundert, Lichtenvoorde, Maartensdijk, Montfort, Polanen, Soest, Sankt Vith, Steenbergen, Turnhout, Willemstad, Zevenbergen and Ameland.
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05-13-2008, 08:57 AM
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Titles of the Dutch Monarch
Clairy Polak reads all of them:
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