Popularity of the Dutch Monarchy and Royal Family

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Doesn't the king still own the Villa Eikenhorst in Wassenaar?

Yep, the house and the big terrorism proof fenced garden is rented to Abdul Rahman Al-Otaibi, the Ambassador of Kuwait in the Netherlands. Rumours say the monthly rent is 12.000 euro.

The Royal Domain De Horsten is for generations privately owned by the Orange-Nassaus but Villa Eikenhorst (one of the buildings on this Orange-Nassau, Bourbon-Parma, Van Vollenhoven enclave) was just newly constructed for Princess Christina in the eighties, so not so much history about it, but of course it is a fantastic house of high quality.

I think the Princess of Orange will live at Drakensteyn Estate and her sisters in one of the properties at the Royal Domain De Horsten. In the past decade derelict farms have been knocked down to make way for houses for family members, in this lush green nature reserve in densely populated The Hague.

[Somebody]

Drakensteyn is indeed also an option at some point in the future. They are not going to sell that, especially not because prince Friso is buried next to it.

[Duc_et_Pair]

When Queen Juliana died in 2004, her four daughters inherited the royal domain De Horsten. It seems items have been swapped in the inheritance portfolio, so that -then- Queen Beatrix became the sole owner of De Horsten.

In 2017 Princess Beatrix gifted (possibly for his 50th birthday) the whole domain to her eldest son, King Willem-Alexander. It is understood that when buildings on the estate are free, family has the first option. That is probably why Princess Margarita de Bourbon de Parme, Pieter-Christiaan van Vollenhoven and Floris van Vollenhoven live on premises on the domain: they have first choice and most likely for a "friendly price".

I guess this will not be different for the three daughters of the owner, the King. It is believed the King agreed that Princess Margriet (sister of Princess Beatrix) remains the beneficient of rents of some 20 agricultural tenants instead of the owner (the King).

[Marengo]

The Government Information Service (RVD) has used focus groups to ask them about the role of the Royal Family during the COVID pandemic.

https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/241...e-verf-gekomen

The conclusion is that COVID related visits go by unnoticed while people do remember the various incidents.

Critics claim that the royal family has lost the connection with ordinary people. People who were more positive beforehand also are more inclined to fogive the incidents.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Marengo

The Government Information Service (RVD) has used focus groups to ask them about the role of the Royal Family during the COVID pandemic.

https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/241...e-verf-gekomen

The conclusion is that COVID related visits go by unnoticed while people do remember the various incidents.

Critics claim that the royal family has lost the connection with ordinary people. People who were more positive beforehand also are more inclined to fogive the incidents.

IOW,people just see what they like to see if they so wish.All the work TM do during the pandemic remains largely unseen,who´s fault is that?A short sighted bunch to judge.

And yes,I am far more inclined to look over what are called incidents.Ofcourse.

[Duc_et_Pair]

All institutions and not only the monarchy: the parliament, the justice, the media, the municipalities, the multinationals, the banks... All of them score record lows in popularity, trust, reliability.

In all European countries, by the way. The Pandemic has accelerated it, but in the UK with Brexit, the USA with Trump, France with the gilets jaunes, the Netherlands with the unseen fragmentation of parliament in tiny fractions with a few clearly bordering anti-democratic attitudes: it is a process of years.

Note that from 2013 until the ill-fated trip to Greece the King and Queen scored higher approval ratings than (then) Queen Beatrix ever enjoyed. Beatrix always lost to her mother, to her husband, to her daughter-in-law, always having higher ratings than the Queen herself. It is not really new and in the last half of the 1990's until the death of Prince Claus in 2002 also Beatrix experienced a serious dip in approval. Her image became stern, aloof, hautain, cold, out of touch, posh. It was the time with ridiculous films or theatre plays depicting Beatrix as an over-demanding mom barring WA's girlfriends and directing politicians with her royal commands.

The monarchy will disappear anyway: the popularity of the royals are just day courses. The popularity of the monarchy itself however, is a long term course. And it is in a decline from 1948 until now. No matter under Juliana, Beatrix or Willem-Alexander, the trend of being in favour of a system with a hereditary succession is downwards, be it very slowly. This decade we will witness the tipping point. For the first time more than 50% will be not in favour of a monarchy. Which does not mean they are in favour of a republic. Too much fuss, so the people will "endure" the "unlogic" monarchy with a shrinking base.

[Silverpot]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

The monarchy will disappear anyway: the popularity of the royals are just day courses. The popularity of the monarchy itself however, is a long term course. And it is in a decline from 1948 until now. No matter under Juliana, Beatrix or Willem-Alexander, the trend of being in favour of a system with a hereditary succession is downwards, be it very slowly. This decade we will witness the tipping point. For the first time more than 50% will be not in favour of a monarchy. Which does not mean they are in favour of a republic. Too much fuss, so the people will "endure" the "unlogic" monarchy with a shrinking base.

I have the feeling that it's somewhat the same in Sweden. Most people agree it's old fashioned with a hereditary Head of State, BUT, that doesn't mean they want a republic, with a president poking his/her nose into the affairs of the State. A constitutional monarchy works very well in that respect, all power lies with the Parliament and the monarch is the figure head and the top diplomat.

My personal opinion is that we don't really need yet another politician, and I'm not alone in thinking that.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Silverpot

I have the feeling that it's somewhat the same in Sweden. Most people agree it's old fashioned with a hereditary Head of State, BUT, that doesn't mean they want a republic, with a president poking his/her nose into the affairs of the State. A constitutional monarchy works very well in that respect, all power lies with the Parliament and the monarch is the figure head and the top diplomat.

My personal opinion is that we don't really need yet another politician, and I'm not alone in thinking that.

Some people claim that it is possible to have a non-partisan president in a republic when the president is indirectly elected by an electoral college or a qualified majority in the Parliament rather than being popularly elected as in France or in Portugal. However, look at what is happening in Italy, where the prospective presidential candidates are now Berlusconi and Draghi, both partisan politicians. Or even in Germany, where several presidents have been former cabinet ministers or professional politicians.

Yes, it may be old-fashioned (and non-meritocratic, not to mention undemocratic) to grant a monopoly on the office of the head of state to the firstborn child of a particular family that was sometimes picked up arbitrarily hundreds of years ago, but, if you want to have a strictly non-partisan, ceremonial head of state, who is not tainted by any connection to a particular political party or faction, the only way to go in practice is a hereditary monarchy. And I say so as someone who grew up in a presidential republic with partisan heads of state who are also BTW heads of government.

Besides, hereditary monarchy does provide a sense of historical continuity above fluid political circumstances, which matters in some older countries as it is the case in most European nations.

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Some people claim that it is possible to have a non-partisan president in a republic when the president is indirectly elected by an electoral college or a qualified majority in the Parliament rather than being popularly elected as in France or in Portugal. However, look at what is happening in Italy, where the prospective presidential candidates are now Berlusconi and Draghi, both partisan politicians. Or even in Germany, where several presidents have been former cabinet ministers or professional politicians.

Yes, it may be old-fashioned (and non-meritocratic, not to mention undemocratic) to grant a monopoly on the office of the head of state to the firstborn child of a particular family that was sometimes picked up arbitrarily hundreds of years ago, but, if you want to have a strictly non-partisan, ceremonial head of state, who is not tainted by any connection to a particular political party or faction, the only way to go in practice is a hereditary monarchy. And I say so as someone who grew up in a presidential republic with partisan heads of state who are also BTW heads of government.

Besides, hereditary monarchy does provide a sense of historical continuity above fluid political circumstances, which matters in some older countries as it is the case in most European nations.

I agree. I, for example, would prefer Portugal to be a monarchy for these reasons. The monarchy is a better regime.

[Silverpot]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

Some people claim that it is possible to have a non-partisan president in a republic when the president is indirectly elected by an electoral college or a qualified majority in the Parliament rather than being popularly elected as in France or in Portugal. However, look at what is happening in Italy, where the prospective presidential candidates are now Berlusconi and Draghi, both partisan politicians. Or even in Germany, where several presidents have been former cabinet ministers or professional politicians.

Yes, it may be old-fashioned (and non-meritocratic, not to mention undemocratic) to grant a monopoly on the office of the head of state to the firstborn child of a particular family that was sometimes picked up arbitrarily hundreds of years ago, but, if you want to have a strictly non-partisan, ceremonial head of state, who is not tainted by any connection to a particular political party or faction, the only way to go in practice is a hereditary monarchy. And I say so as someone who grew up in a presidential republic with partisan heads of state who are also BTW heads of government.

Besides, hereditary monarchy does provide a sense of historical continuity above fluid political circumstances, which matters in some older countries as it is the case in most European nations.

Indeed.

Also, the responsibility for the national heritage that is our past royal history lies with the monarch. The Bernadottes have been very good at preserving and maintaining this treasure, that belongs to us all. I shudder to think what would happen to it if it were to be handed over to bureaucrats and politicians who have a tendency to follow every fad and whim of the day.
There actually are people who like to say that the Royal Palace should be turned into a hostel for the homeless and the refugees.

[Silverpot]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

I agree. I, for example, would prefer Portugal to be a monarchy for these reasons. The monarchy is a better regime.

Yes, it's more stable, I feel.

[Lee-Z]

https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panel...an-hun-fouten/

Confidence in Willem-Alexander and Máxima at a new low: 'They don't learn from their mistakes'
Confidence in Willem-Alexander (54 percent) and Máxima (61 percent) is falling for the third year in a row. Both have never scored this low before. This is evident from the annual King's Day survey among more than 26,000 members of the EenVandaag Opinion Panel.

google translated

[Katymcwaity]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panel...an-hun-fouten/

Confidence in Willem-Alexander and Máxima at a new low: 'They don't learn from their mistakes'
Confidence in Willem-Alexander (54 percent) and Máxima (61 percent) is falling for the third year in a row. Both have never scored this low before. This is evident from the annual King's Day survey among more than 26,000 members of the EenVandaag Opinion Panel.

google translated

In some ways, its not a great surprise. Covid is still around and fresh in people’s memories (just look at the UK and Boris) I did think they were fairly visible too (more so than the BRF at times) but I guess it depends on if everything is reported on the main news programmes or not. I am not sure if they will learn from their mistakes. Oddly with girls growing up and leaving home, it will probably make them more distant as they won’t have the ‘normal’ interactions related to this and
Retreat further into their bubble.

[An Ard Ri]

This downward spiral is not good news and I had hoped for an improvement this year.

[Duc_et_Pair]

In perspective: trust in media, trust in politicians, trust in the judiciary, trust in police, trust in the Tax Revenue Service, trust in the Cabinet in general, all is scoring alltime lows.

This is not unique. Today we see Elections for the Élysée in France. Probably with the lowest turnout ever. And the French feel it as chosing between the Cholera or the Plague. The same in the USA where still a considerable part of the people does not even recognize the incumbent President as the rightfully chosen one.

But apart from this: since WWII, no matter which Queen or King, the support for having a system of hereditary succession is declining. This year or next year we will see the tipping point, for the first time a majority which does not support the idea of having a monarchy.

It is inevitable. This year we saw another tipping point, for the first time since the earliest mediaeval times more than 50% of the people do not belong to any Faith at all. Before WWII 95% of the population belonged to a Faith.

[tommy100]

I see it as two things at play - monarchies are generally less popular at the moment with the younger generations (18-25yr olds) seeing them as pretty much the opposite to everything they believe in. That is perhaps why older monarchs often have higher ratings - they are often seen as being "granny" like i.e. some of the criticism of the system of monarchy can be overlooked as the actual sovereign is older and like the way your granny is set in her ways. When you have a younger sovereigns like WA and Maxima it is harder to overlook the perceived 'outdatedness' of the monarchy.

The second factor is that, to be blunt, WA & Maxima behaved awfully in Covid. Holidays overseas when the government were advising against it, buying new boats and having parties. The truth is the public always hold Royal Families to a higher standard than they do other "ordinary" people. That is why the likes of Philippe & Mathilde and QE2 had a "good lockdown" (to use that war analogy) - maintaining or increasing popularity by sticking to the rules.

In all it isn't a surprise they have lower poll ratings now. Let's hope they can bounce back in time.

[Prinsara]

I assume that Amalia wasn't part of the poll despite now being an adult.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Lee-Z

https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panel...an-hun-fouten/

Confidence in Willem-Alexander and Máxima at a new low: 'They don't learn from their mistakes'
Confidence in Willem-Alexander (54 percent) and Máxima (61 percent) is falling for the third year in a row. Both have never scored this low before. This is evident from the annual King's Day survey among more than 26,000 members of the EenVandaag Opinion Panel.

google translated

Confidence in King Willem-Alexander was up around 80% in 2013 if I'm not mistaken?

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Prinsara

I assume that Amalia wasn't part of the poll despite now being an adult.

Probably not, but W-A and Maxima's daughters haven't gotten a very positive press lately either.

I understand they are still teenagers and I don't want to label them, but, compared to Elisabeth or Leonor, Amalia or Alexia don't project an image of "serious princesses". They don't do public engagements (which is their parents' choice at the moment to be fair) and seem more interested in boys, parties , vacations, or "knowing all of Europe's tiaras" than public affairs. They are also photographed doing minor "bad things" like smoking, which are things that some young people do, but are not good examples.

I apologize if I am being judgmental or too harsh, but W-A and Maxima seem to take a different approach to parenting than other royal couples, or at least that is how I feel. I will say no more about that to avoid overstepping.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes over 80%.

But what is "confidence in WA", a person in a purely ceremonial function? And what is "confidence in Máxima", the wife of a person in a purely ceremonial function?

It is a bit an empty egg question. It would not surprise me in the least bit to see a republic coming. No revolutions, no guillotines, all in an orderly and prudent manner. But as in 1848 or in 1918: a tumbling throne always has a domino effect. A tumbling of the monarchy in the Netherlands will embolden the separatist and republican parties in Belgium (both already the two biggest parties over there).