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  #101  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Maybe. But i think the one or other from the dutch people will ask why they see the royal chidlren in their neighbour country who oughly about the same age more then the royal chidren in their own country. And it that regard it helps probabvly that a big part of the Newspaper/TV-Programms from Flanders are in their own langauge and can probably also be seen in the Netherlands.
Actually they are not at all that invisible. Every year all three girls go out and about into the country on King's Day. This year they have had virtual meet and greets, live on TV and online, with the most populair Dutch YouTuber. We have seen them during the Abdication, the Investiture, the King's parade (Amalia was 9) around the King's 50th birthday(Amalia was 13). Since she was a baby there are photoshoots in winter and summer. There are official portraits.

She turned 17 this month and her parents' focus is entirely on her education. After her 18th we will see Amalia at Prinsjesdag (no equivalent in Belgium), in the Council of State (no such equivalent for royals in Belgium) and at the National Remembrance (no such equivalent in Belgium either as only the King attends this).

So we soon will see Amalia developing a completely own agenda. Like we saw with Willem-Alexander and Beatrix in their own young years.
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  #102  
Old 12-31-2020, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Maybe. But i think the one or other from the dutch people will ask why they see the royal chidlren in their neighbour country who oughly about the same age more then the royal chidren in their own country. And it that regard it helps probabvly that a big part of the Newspaper/TV-Programms from Flanders are in their own langauge and can probably also be seen in the Netherlands.
No, not really... I think very few Dutch people know about a 'prince Emmanuel of Belgium' for example. So, it seems more of a problem in your imagination than in reality. Of course, the media would be happy if we saw them (even) more but as Duc_et_Pair pointed out, we do see them several times a year; and as the royal couple has been consistent in their approach - they've clearly set the expectation from the start, so nobody seems to expect anything different.

Honestly, I think the Dutch would feel sorry for the princesses if they had to sit through long classical concerts for example; they much rather see them enjoy a (horse) show jumping event with their grandmother if they happen to join her because they themselves are interested; or at the various sporting events that their parents have taken them to over the years enthusiastically supporting the various national teams or athletes.
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  #103  
Old 12-31-2020, 02:21 PM
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I agree with you, Stefan. In my opinion, Catharina-Amalia should have done a couple of public appearances by now. I do not necessarily agree with her parents' approach.

As for the King's popularity: yes, the Greek holiday was a mistake, yes, he apologized and yes, IMO he (they) should have known better.
Sometimes I think the Van Lippe Biesterfeld genes from his grandfather Prince Bernhard (as in kind of naughty/haughty behaviour) pop up too much.
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  #104  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:17 PM
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Annual poll on the popularity of the dutch king and monarchy
https://nos.nl/artikel/2378392-konin...nder-druk.html
google translated

"Trust in King Willem-Alexander has recovered slightly since the fuss about his holiday to Greece, but is still considerably lower than in previous years. This is evident from the annual*King's Day Survey (.pdf)*that agency Ipsos carried out on behalf of the NOS. Support for the monarchy has also shrunk significantly and the appreciation for Queen Máxima has also suffered from the ill-timed trip to the holiday villa and other dissatisfaction with the royal family."

Those who thought the Greek holiday (during Covid restrictions not to go abroad on holiday) would be a storm in a teacup, have been proved wrong, it did impact the opinion of the dutch people more than you'd think..

Imo the dutch monarchy as such still has little to fear, i doubt there is a real viable alternative the dutch people as a whole would deem better..
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  #105  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Annual poll on the popularity of the dutch king and monarchy
https://nos.nl/artikel/2378392-konin...nder-druk.html
google translated

"Trust in King Willem-Alexander has recovered slightly since the fuss about his holiday to Greece, but is still considerably lower than in previous years. This is evident from the annual*King's Day Survey (.pdf)*that agency Ipsos carried out on behalf of the NOS. Support for the monarchy has also shrunk significantly and the appreciation for Queen Máxima has also suffered from the ill-timed trip to the holiday villa and other dissatisfaction with the royal family."

Those who thought the Greek holiday (during Covid restrictions not to go abroad on holiday) would be a storm in a teacup, have been proved wrong, it did impact the opinion of the dutch people more than you'd think..

Imo the dutch monarchy as such still has little to fear, i doubt there is a real viable alternative the dutch people as a whole would deem better..
I think:
- the fact Covid is still going on does not help people to forget what a blunder Greece was. Although the apology seemed very sincere, they should have known (or listened) enough to never have gone.
- Amalia is going to be very popular as a rising star and the major focus of people's attention very, very soon
- and whether her sisters eventually help things is going to be up to Alexia and Ariane. We'll see...
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  #106  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:39 PM
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A little shocked at the drop in approval for Queen Máxima 83% last year to 68% this year is a drop of 15% but at least the king's approval has increased though still just under 60%.

The drop in support for the Monarchy from 75% to 58% is also alarming.
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  #107  
Old 04-27-2021, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Annual poll on the popularity of the dutch king and monarchy
https://nos.nl/artikel/2378392-konin...nder-druk.html
google translated

"Trust in King Willem-Alexander has recovered slightly since the fuss about his holiday to Greece, but is still considerably lower than in previous years. This is evident from the annual*King's Day Survey (.pdf)*that agency Ipsos carried out on behalf of the NOS. Support for the monarchy has also shrunk significantly and the appreciation for Queen Máxima has also suffered from the ill-timed trip to the holiday villa and other dissatisfaction with the royal family."

Those who thought the Greek holiday (during Covid restrictions not to go abroad on holiday) would be a storm in a teacup, have been proved wrong, it did impact the opinion of the dutch people more than you'd think..

Imo the dutch monarchy as such still has little to fear, i doubt there is a real viable alternative the dutch people as a whole would deem better..
I do think it is the combination of the Greek holiday and hardly being able to go out during the Covid pandemic. Had the restrictions been lifted a few months ago, my guess would be that their popularity had recovered more than it has now. Probably support will go up now the whole country was able to see the king, queen and princesses today in Eindhoven and at the concert tonight.
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  #108  
Old 04-27-2021, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
A little shocked at the drop in approval for Queen Máxima 83% last year to 68% this year is a drop of 15% but at least the king's approval has increased though still just under 60%.

The drop in support for the Monarchy from 75% to 58% is also alarming.



A crucial question is how the next generatiion, especially Amalia, will connect with the Dutch people.



Unfortunately, I see Amalia and her sisters more distant/ shielded from public life and public duty than other teenage royals like Elisabeth or Leonor. Maybe that is what their parents think is appropriate for them at their age, but it might be controversial.
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  #109  
Old 04-27-2021, 02:52 PM
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Would the current slump in approval ratings be amongst the lowest or has this happened in the past and there was a bounce back?

The Greek holiday was a PR disaster for the King and RF.
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  #110  
Old 04-27-2021, 02:56 PM
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Yet in spite of the drop in trust from the previous year, support for having the King play a role in government formation has grown from 33% last year to 41% last year.

I find it interesting that while only a small fraction of the public wish for the princesses (the King's daughters, I assume) to be more visible in the media, that number has doubled from last year (11% to 20%), and a majority (52%) concurs that the Princess of Orange should make more public appearances once she comes of age.

I am curious about the 33% of people who agreed that primogeniture is outdated. Are they generally republicans or would they like to see monarchs chosen by appointment or elections?

Thank you to Lee-Z for posting this fascinating poll (note that the full survey is linked in the NOS article).
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  #111  
Old 04-27-2021, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
A crucial question is how the next generatiion, especially Amalia, will connect with the Dutch people.



Unfortunately, I see Amalia and her sisters more distant/ shielded from public life and public duty than other teenage royals like Elisabeth or Leonor. Maybe that is what their parents think is appropriate for them at their age, but it might be controversial.
It is true. Elisabeth and Leonor play a more active role, while Catharina-Amalia has a still very discreet role.
I'm curious when Catharina-Amalia is going to take a more active role.
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  #112  
Old 04-27-2021, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
A crucial question is how the next generatiion, especially Amalia, will connect with the Dutch people.

Unfortunately, I see Amalia and her sisters more distant/ shielded from public life and public duty than other teenage royals like Elisabeth or Leonor. Maybe that is what their parents think is appropriate for them at their age, but it might be controversial.
I don't see much complains about it in the Dutch media; the large majority will have no clue that Leonor and Elisabeth might be 'visible' a bit more. The king and queen clearly set the expectation that we would only see them limitedly as they highly value an upbringing in which the princesses can truly explore who they are.

It will be interesting to see how they manage the transition to Amalia coming of age next year. Even though Amalia herself didn't think it was a big deal when asked about being "nervous" about her 18th birthday: "last year I turned 17, that wasn't 'spannend' (exciting/scary; in Dutch the word includes both the excitement and being a little nervous) either".
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  #113  
Old 04-27-2021, 03:59 PM
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I don't see much complains about it in the Dutch media; the large majority will have no clue that Leonor and Elisabeth might be 'visible' a bit more. The king and queen clearly set the expectation that we would only see them limitedly as they highly value an upbringing in which the princesses can truly explore who they are.

It will be interesting to see how they manage the transition to Amalia coming of age next year. Even though Amalia herself didn't think it was a big deal when asked about being "nervous" about her 18th birthday: "last year I turned 17, that wasn't 'spannend' (exciting/scary; in Dutch the word includes both the excitement and being a little nervous) either".
That is true, and I doubt whether the large majority even knows who Leonor and Elisabeth are.

I do agree with those who think Amalia's apanage starting this year, once she comes of age, is too high. Especially for someone who has only had a very limited visibility, even though that was clearly communicated before.

For such a high amount, I am of the opinion that she should earn her keep.

In that respect, over in Belgium Philippe and Mathilde have taken a better approach for Elisabeth.
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  #114  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:07 PM
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I do agree with those who think Amalia's apanage starting this year, once she comes of age, is too high. Especially for someone who has only had a very limited visibility, even though that was clearly communicated before.

For such a high amount, I am of the opinion that she should earn her keep.
I wonder could the high apanage of the Princess of Orange cause even more negativity for the DRF especially as she is so rarely seen?
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  #115  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:14 PM
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I wonder could the high apanage of the Princess of Orange cause even more negativity for the DRF especially as she is so rarely seen?
It's not Amalia's fault or choice how much she gets paid, though; that's the government, who already had the option of doing something about it. Can't the money simply go into a trust for her until she is actually working?

Not being seen also means there are far fewer opportunities to do anything wrong or disillusion anyone.
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  #116  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:30 PM
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It's not Amalia's fault or choice how much she gets paid, though; that's the government, who already had the option of doing something about it. Can't the money simply go into a trust for her until she is actually working?

Not being seen also means there are far fewer opportunities to do anything wrong or disillusion anyone.

Also true, but the Royal Family is a very touchy subject for the government. At least for the Prime Minister.

As for Amalia and her apanage, IMO doing something wrong and/or disillusion anyone is part of the job. She then at leasts works for the money, as opposed to how things look at the moment. And where work is being done, mistakes are being made.

I think your suggestion of saving the money until she actually does start working is a very good one.
Now it seems like she'll receive it without doing anything simply because she reaches the right age.
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  #117  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:33 PM
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It's not Amalia's fault or choice how much she gets paid, though; that's the government, who already had the option of doing something about it. Can't the money simply go into a trust for her until she is actually working?

But is that known by the general public in the Netherlands? Probably not and then it is what does she need to get all the money when we barely see her and it will fire back on her and her parents.
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  #118  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:34 PM
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Also true, but the Royal Family is a very touchy subject for the government. At least for the Prime Minister.


As for Amalia and her apanage, IMO doing something wrong and/or disillusion anyone is part of the job. She then at leasts works for the money, as opposed to how things look at the moment.

And where work is being done, mistakes are being made.

I think your suggestion of saving the money until she actually does start working is a very good one.

Now it seems like she'll receive it without doing anything simply because she reaches the right age.
I do expect that most of the money will indeed be kept for the future; so she can start building up her own 'wealth'. I don't expect it to be used for random shopping trips.

Most likely she will start formally having an office and part of the money will go into that; another part will go into limited royal engagements and the majority will most likely be kept for future use.
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  #119  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:39 PM
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But is that known by the general public in the Netherlands? Probably not and then it is what does she need to get all the money when we barely see her and it will fire back on her and her parents.
Yes, that has been discussed in the media. I don't think the people in the Netherlands think that Amalia herself can decide how much she earns. Anyone with even a limited interest would know that those decisions are made by the cabinet. Most of them don't decide on their own salaries either, so that principle is rather basic. Whether some might think that the royal couple actively lobbies for keeping it like it is or not, I cannot tell. And whether they agree that the heir needs such a large amount of money when she is still in her formative years, is a different question.
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  #120  
Old 04-27-2021, 04:40 PM
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I don't think Amalia's allowance is the main reason for the dip in popularity. The ratings are at the lowest point in my lifetime. We have had other financial discussions before and none of them had this kind of effect. The Greek vacations must have played a big part in it.

I have no problem with the apanage - 111.000 Euros a year does not get you very far these days. It might enable her to save up a bit. Later on in life neither she nor her future husband will be allowed to get much better paid jobs in the private sector. Jobs that with her family network would probably mean a much higher income than the one she will be having.

And unlike the Duchess of Brabant, Amalia will not be living in a residence that is provided by the state. She will have to find one herself. For that she will need to own a significant amount of money as she can not be living in a normal family home. She will be expected to have a house that has a representational function. A semi-detached home of 160 square meters in Den-Haag Ypenburg or Zoetermeer would be possible for somebody with an income of 111.000 Euros a year but not much more. The income will allow her to lead a comfortable middle class life style but that is it.

The king as prince of Orange still bought real estate from his grandmother for a reduced price but the princess is not likely to have that possibility when the time comes. The family does not have a lot of options anymore these days, most has been sold or split up due to inheritances.

There is a reason why the state has decided to give the princess an allowance at this age. It is not up to the king to deny his daughter an allowance to which she is entitled by law and which was updated and approved by both houses of parlament only a few years ago. Neither does refusing the allowance will have a lasting effect on the ratings of the monarchy. This hype will be forgotten in a few months. And even if she does refuse it for the time being, the drama will start again when she is 25, 30 etc. People are generally misinformed so many will probably not remeber that she does not receive an income, you would be surprised how many people think that even the Van Vollenhovens are getting an apanage.
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