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  #81  
Old 12-29-2020, 08:55 PM
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If the PM needs to babysit them in everything they do, then IMO that would mean that they are incapable of making any sound decisions themselves. I don't think that's they case, so they can analyze the situation, reflect further on their own behavior & do better from now on.

I don't think any of the other European royals went on vacation abroad this year? Not because they couldn't afford to or wouldn't be able to better protect themselves from infection than regular people, but because I imagine they realized that it wasn't a good time to do so. Not when citizens were asked not to or were suffering from illness & economic consequences.

I think they weren't even criticized when they went in the summer, it was when they went right after the PM had asked people not to, that they got into trouble.

It's a time of crisis and as such, I think their actions are amplified. If you rise to the occasion, it can be huge boost in positive perception that may even last for years - eg Philippe & family or Sofia of Sweden. Something as simple (but very meaningful & hitting just the right nerve) as "You are not alone" can make you shine greatly.

Willem-Alexander and Maxima messed up, and it also got a stronger reaction than it would have in a different situation. Now I think it is wise indeed to stay quiet for a while.

They seem to have to been incredibly popular and perhaps that has given them the idea that nothing could change that... Now they've seen that that isn't so and will hopefully do better in the future. Luckily, for them this is very much salvageable. Felipe would probably be done in such a scenario...
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  #82  
Old 12-29-2020, 09:06 PM
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If the PM needs to babysit them in everything they do, then IMO that would mean that they are incapable of making any sound decisions themselves. I don't think that's they case, so they can analyze the situation, reflect further on their own behavior & do better from now on.

I don't think any of the other European royals went on vacation abroad this year? Not because they couldn't afford to or wouldn't be able to better protect themselves from infection than regular people, but because I imagine they realized that it wasn't a good time to do so. Not when citizens were asked not to or were suffering from illness & economic consequences.

I think they weren't even criticized when they went in the summer, it was when they went right after the PM had asked people not to, that they got into trouble.

It's a time of crisis and as such, I think their actions are amplified. If you rise to the occasion, it can be huge boost in positive perception that may even last for years - eg Philippe & family or Sofia of Sweden. Something as simple (but very meaningful & hitting just the right nerve) as "You are not alone" can make you shine greatly.

Willem-Alexander and Maxima messed up, and it also got a stronger reaction than it would have in a different situation. Now I think it is wise indeed to stay quiet for a while.

They seem to have to been incredibly popular and perhaps that has given them the idea that nothing could change that... Now they've seen that that isn't so and will hopefully do better in the future. Luckily, for them this is very much salvageable. Felipe would probably be done in such a scenario...
The grand duchess spends most of her time in their holiday home in south-eastern France... and travels at least between France, Luxembourg and Germany. And Joachim and his family traveled between France and Denmark at least twice in the last 2 months (for autumn holidays and now for Christmas holidays). I guess there are other examples that we might not know of.

But you are right that their summer holiday was totally fine as the large majority of the Dutch went on holiday and many did so abroad - except for not keeping sufficient distance at least one time when they were photographed. The main problem arose when they went again for the autumn holidays (and it didn't help that they left Amalia and Alexia a few more days while pretending that the family flew back the next day).
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  #83  
Old 12-30-2020, 04:20 AM
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I really do not think this is a matter for the PM. As King & Queen, W-A and Max really should have exercised better judgement.
In the Dutch reality it is the PM that is to blame politically. The king can not be hold to account in parlament but the prime minister -who is politically responsible for all that the king says and does- will need to answer these questions.

But the PM is made of teflon and all scandals -more important ones than this one- easily glide of. In the perception of public opinion it is clear Dutch people think the king and queen were to blame, as we can see in their decreasing poll numbers.
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  #84  
Old 12-30-2020, 04:55 AM
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It is no problem at all. All this is connected to a 2020 Year Review by the public broadcaster NOS and they just went vox populi on this specific topic: the autumn break by the King's family. "Did this change your trust in the King?"

Funny questionnaire. I have never had any "trust" in Queen Beatrix or King Willem-Alexander. What "trust"? How does that materialize in trains riding on schedule or fresh water coming out of the tap or having a growing economy? It is a stupid question. If people say "Yes, I have less trust in the King" how is that "trust" materialized anyway?

But the vox pop on the King's speech on a totally empty Dam Square (May 4th) and a few days ago, on his Christmass Address, when he spoke about the unstoppable "manische meningen machine" (manic opinions machine) which is social media in today's life and his honest remark that everyone (the royal family included) "tried to adhere to the rules through trial and error over the past few months" landed generally well.

Royals can have an annus mirabilis or an annus horribilis. But all this does not come even close to that. It is just one of the accidents de route which happen in a long Reign. The King is now already approaching the eighth year of his Reign (how time flies...) and today's up is tomorrow's down, a fate known by every public person. There is no any royal without a bump in their lifelong route.

It is not about today's "popularity" of a royal. It is about the support for a monarchy. And this is declining, be it little bit by little bit. Year after year. Decade after decade. It was declining under Queen Juliana, under Queen Beatrix and is declining under King Willem-Alexander, regardless of any spotless parcours or any personal popularity. Simply because the concept of a hereditary head of state does make less and lesser appeal.

Earlier this year the same King and Queen scored the highest personal approval and popularity ratings ever. But the underlying trend, the desire for having a hereditary monarchy remained downward.
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  #85  
Old 12-30-2020, 07:57 AM
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How popular is former queen Beatrix?

I always assumed the only best dressed and impeccably groomed Dutch Royal lady was a national treasure.
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  #86  
Old 12-30-2020, 09:57 AM
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Saying the PM is to blame seems so odd to me. Yes he is the ones who has to answer for them (which in itself is odd but I get it) but really if that is what it comes down to how sad and weak it makes the RF look. It's a bit like saying someone has diplomatic immunity so its okay for them to beat people up, steal or worse....no its not okay at all but the reality is they may not be able to be prosecuted for it.

WA and Max (and those advising them) should not and are not I hope thinking well we can do most anything we want because the PM will have to take the fall for it. Surely they want to be liked by their own people, respected by them? Okay sometimes as King WA will be obliged to do things people would rather he didn't - e.g. visit or host Heads of State who are less than 'agreeable' but most people see that in those circumstances he is simply doing his job and yes then the PM should be held accountable. When it comes down to their personal holidays, or buying a new million Euro speedboat (or other personal actions) its 100% their choice and they should be the ones held accountable - as they seem to admit themselves with their "non apology apology" video.

I'm sure they can turn this awful last 6 months around, if they listen and learn from their mistakes.
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  #87  
Old 12-30-2020, 10:37 AM
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The grand duchess spends most of her time in their holiday home in south-eastern France... and travels at least between France, Luxembourg and Germany. And Joachim and his family traveled between France and Denmark at least twice in the last 2 months (for autumn holidays and now for Christmas holidays). I guess there are other examples that we might not know of.

But you are right that their summer holiday was totally fine as the large majority of the Dutch went on holiday and many did so abroad - except for not keeping sufficient distance at least one time when they were photographed. The main problem arose when they went again for the autumn holidays (and it didn't help that they left Amalia and Alexia a few more days while pretending that the family flew back the next day).

The Grand Duchess living in Biarritz rather than Luxembourg most of the time - yes, that is, well, strange. And a whole story of its own. It would generally be strange for a consort to live in another country, but I take it that the PM doesn't want her involvement anymore, so in that sense it might be for the best. If she travels back and forth a lot during the pandemic, that is also bound to cause problems and it seems that we are there now, though the issue seems to be that the GD went to visit her.

Though it's not a trip abroad but a visit back home, I think Joachim & Marie's trips from Paris, which has often been a virus hotspot, to Denmark, could also be seen as questionable. I think they've been lucky in that I don't believe they've been criticized.

Well, it was not a good idea to pretend and certainly not a good lesson to teach their daughters.
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  #88  
Old 12-30-2020, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Saying the PM is to blame seems so odd to me. Yes he is the ones who has to answer for them (which in itself is odd but I get it) but really if that is what it comes down to how sad and weak it makes the RF look. It's a bit like saying someone has diplomatic immunity so its okay for them to beat people up, steal or worse....no its not okay at all but the reality is they may not be able to be prosecuted for it.

WA and Max (and those advising them) should not and are not I hope thinking well we can do most anything we want because the PM will have to take the fall for it. Surely they want to be liked by their own people, respected by them? Okay sometimes as King WA will be obliged to do things people would rather he didn't - e.g. visit or host Heads of State who are less than 'agreeable' but most people see that in those circumstances he is simply doing his job and yes then the PM should be held accountable. When it comes down to their personal holidays, or buying a new million Euro speedboat (or other personal actions) its 100% their choice and they should be the ones held accountable - as they seem to admit themselves with their "non apology apology" video.

I'm sure they can turn this awful last 6 months around, if they listen and learn from their mistakes.

I very much agree. The PM may be more "responsible" for them than in certain other monarchies, but if he has to now be even more watchful of what they do even in their private lives, surely that would not be more pleasant for anyone?

The PM would have to interfere with their private lives (more), WA & M would be more limited in their personal lives and have to ask permission for this or that like children? And the overall perception would be that they cannot be trusted/ are incapable of making good decisions for themselves and setting an example for the country.

I think they are very much capable of doing that, so that's what their renewed goal should be. If, on the other hand, someone was actually not capable of that, I think that would raise all sorts of other questions as to how suitable such a person would be as head of state. But as I said, I don't think that is the case here at all. They are people capable of self-reflection, they have apologized and in the future, they will have plenty of time and opportunities to show their dedication to the country as well better judgment.
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  #89  
Old 12-30-2020, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Saying the PM is to blame seems so odd to me. Yes he is the ones who has to answer for them (which in itself is odd but I get it) but really if that is what it comes down to how sad and weak it makes the RF look. It's a bit like saying someone has diplomatic immunity so its okay for them to beat people up, steal or worse....no its not okay at all but the reality is they may not be able to be prosecuted for it.

WA and Max (and those advising them) should not and are not I hope thinking well we can do most anything we want because the PM will have to take the fall for it. Surely they want to be liked by their own people, respected by them? Okay sometimes as King WA will be obliged to do things people would rather he didn't - e.g. visit or host Heads of State who are less than 'agreeable' but most people see that in those circumstances he is simply doing his job and yes then the PM should be held accountable. When it comes down to their personal holidays, or buying a new million Euro speedboat (or other personal actions) its 100% their choice and they should be the ones held accountable - as they seem to admit themselves with their "non apology apology" video.

I'm sure they can turn this awful last 6 months around, if they listen and learn from their mistakes.
Questions are never directed at the King, always at the Prime Minister. He is responsible for the head of state. Prime Minister Mark Rutte recalled that at the last weekly audience before the autumn break the Greek holiday was discussed. After the already given go-ahead the restrictions were tightened but "at that moment I had no sharp image on my retina about consequences of this for autumn break of the King in Greece".

Pic: the King and the Prime Minister

https://images2.persgroep.net/rcs/8Y...redformat=webp
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  #90  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:20 AM
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I am sorry Duc et Pair , but what the whole Belgian Royal Family did during the Covid is not to compare with your Royals. Your Princesses stayed home.
Your Crown Princess reveived a Dotation , ours is in the Army without any privilège.
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  #91  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:43 AM
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I am sorry Duc et Pair , but what the whole Belgian Royal Family did during the Covid is not to compare with your Royals. Your Princesses stayed home.
Your Crown Princess reveived a Dotation , ours is in the Army without any privilège.

For now Amalia does not get an Apanage. It will start when when she turns 18 in December 2021.
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  #92  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:43 AM
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This article compares and contrasts 2020 for the three kings: Willem-Alexander, Phillipe and Felipe who all ascended to their respective thrones within a few years of each other. It reviews their actions during the COVID 19 crisis along personal concerns that might have impacted their reigns and how each responded to it. For two of the kings, Phillipe and Felipe it involved their fathers and the latter's past controversial actions. With W-A it was the Greek holiday.



https://www.revistavanityfair.es/rea...uillermo/48232
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  #93  
Old 12-31-2020, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
I am sorry Duc et Pair , but what the whole Belgian Royal Family did during the Covid is not to compare with your Royals. Your Princesses stayed home.
Your Crown Princess reveived a Dotation , ours is in the Army without any privilège.

Your comparison is wrong. During the autumn break Amalia was a 16 years old girl attending secondary school. How to compare that with the older Elisabeth whom has finished secondary school and is furtherer in her stage of life?

Amalia also does not have any income, only when she is 18 years old she will receive an income, automatically by law, connected to her position. (In Belgium this dotation is not automatic, the Government and the Parliament have to decide upon this and establish it by law).

In Belgium the number 5 (Astrid) and the number 13 (Laurent) receive an annual dotation. Year in, year out. Their whole life long.

In the Netherlands the Numbers 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - etc. etc. have never received -and will never receive- any dotation at all.
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  #94  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
The 18th birthday of the Princess of Orange should be something positive for the Dutch RF to work towards as is the 50th Birthday of the queen.

IMO they need to move away from the glossy magazine image they have been portraying over the past few years.
Indeed,but tell that the socalled press...And their love to pump matters oversize on their covers if they see an extra buck!! A lot of the negativity is at the account of the pulp press and people overreacting in negativity on social media,or rather asocial media,They live by the hype of the day and blame each and everyone especially those that can not publickly defend themselves.It is cowardice,it is low,and typical of insignificant little somebodies....a country full of m...well,not me and mine!
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  #95  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:21 AM
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Your comparison is wrong. During the autumn break Amalia was a 16 years old girl attending secondary school. How to compare that with the older Elisabeth whom has finished secondary school and is furtherer in her stage of life?

But then Elisabethj already did some duties like accompaniing her mother or be with her fatehr when his Christmas speech was recocred. And that before turning 18. Also her younger siblings have been seen more in public the last years then the 3 dutch Princesses. Perhpas it would help if at last Amalia is seen a bit more in public.
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  #96  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:22 AM
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Indeed,but tell that the socalled press...And their love to pump matters oversize on their covers if they see an extra buck!! A lot of the negativity is at the account of the pulp press and people overreacting in negativity on social media,or rather asocial media,They live by the hype of the day and blame each and everyone especially those that can not publickly defend themselves.It is cowardice,it is low,and typical of insignificant little somebodies....a country full of m...well,not me and mine!

The upheaval is mainly a media frenzy. I have had discussions with friends and family during Christmas and I sensed a moderate reaction: we are all too human, we are all have our faults, we all go out shopping on Black Friday, he has publicly said it was poor judgement. Soit.

The only public person whom still receives sharp reactions is the Minister of Justice, whom broke all COVID-19 rules on his wedding (also too human anyway) but was the one which entamed a rock-hard prosecution policy for not following distancing rules. That this Minister, as no one resposbible for this policy, remained on his post still is met with irritation.

It was largely forgotten. His Christmas Address was generally met positively (unlike his mothers Addresses which always draw negative reactions). Until NOS reviewed the Year 2020 and went voxpop with the question "Do you have less trust in the King after his Greek holiday, yes or no?" (What is "trust in the King" anyway, a completely a-political figure without any executive power?).

And now it is already out of public, people preparing for the most weird New Year's Eve ever, only on this board the downfall of the King seems imminent.
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  #97  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:31 AM
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But then Elisabethj already did some duties like accompaniing her mother or be with her fatehr when his Christmas speech was recocred. And that before turning 18. Also her younger siblings have been seen more in public the last years then the 3 dutch Princesses. Perhpas it would help if at last Amalia is seen a bit more in public.
Different families make different choices/have different philosophies: Willem-Alexander and Máxima have been rather consistent in letting their children by children/teenagers with only very limited royal duties. I do expect that we'll see the princess of Orange more often after she turns 18; although she will still focus on her education for the foreseeable future.

If you start comparing everyone could come out on the wrong side, for example Catharina-Amalia stays in the Netherlands for her secondary education while Elisabeth went abroad... (as if the Belgian education system isn't good enough for the heir to the throne - if you want to look at it in a negative way)

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The upheaval is mainly a media frenzy. I have had discussions with friends and family during Christmas and I sensed a moderate reaction: we are all too human, we are all have our faults, we all go out shopping on Black Friday, he has publicly said it was poor judgement. Soit.

The only public person whom still receives sharp reactions is the Minister of Justice, whom broke all COVID-19 rules on his wedding (also too human anyway) but was the one which entamed a rock-hard prosecution policy for not following distancing rules. That this Minister, as no one resposbible for this policy, remained on his post still is met with irritation.

It was largely forgotten. His Christmas Address was generally met positively (unlike his mothers Addresses which always draw negative reactions). Until NOS reviewed the Year 2020 and went voxpop with the question "Do you have less trust in the King after his Greek holiday, yes or no?" (What is "trust in the King" anyway, a completely a-political figure without any executive power?).

And now it is already out of public, people preparing for the most weird New Year's Eve ever, only on this board the downfall of the King seems imminent.
Exactly. The Christmas Address was received very well. So, while I think the family should take note that bad decisions such as the ones made this year can negatively impact the view of the people; some 'good publicity' could also swing things the other way. So, hopefully, they'll find a way 'up'.
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  #98  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:44 AM
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Queen Beatrix abdicated too eary !
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  #99  
Old 12-31-2020, 11:55 AM
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Queen Beatrix abdicated too eary !
What makes you think that? I am pretty sure princess Beatrix would disagree with your opinion.

King Willem-Alexander has had a very successful reign until a few months ago when he messed up and apologized for that. So, should he do better in the future; for sure, is this a sign that he shouldn't be reigning; not at all.
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Old 12-31-2020, 12:20 PM
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Different families make different choices/have different philosophies: Willem-Alexander and Máxima have been rather consistent in letting their children by children/teenagers with only very limited royal duties. I do expect that we'll see the princess of Orange more often after she turns 18; although she will still focus on her education for the foreseeable future.

.

Maybe. But i think the one or other from the dutch people will ask why they see the royal chidlren in their neighbour country who oughly about the same age more then the royal chidren in their own country. And it that regard it helps probabvly that a big part of the Newspaper/TV-Programms from Flanders are in their own langauge and can probably also be seen in the Netherlands.
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