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  #181  
Old 04-25-2022, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
I think you were spot on. The alarm bells sould have gone off in 2009 when the chairmen of the Orange associations attacked the then prince of Orange and Princess Máxima for their jetsetting. But sadly they keep making the same mistakes. Either their advisors are incompetent or -more likely- they prefer not to listen to advice.

The couple seems to be enjoying the perks a bit too much. And although less and less people are religious the country is culturally calvinistic and -IMO mistakenly- likes to think of itself as an egalitarian one. I am sure other royals will enjoy the perks just as much or even more but at least they do so more secretly. In Juliana's time all the Italian trips were not reported in the press by dilligent air plane spotters. Now they are.
Yes I had forgotten about that.
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  #182  
Old 04-25-2022, 09:20 AM
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Difference is that Willem-Alexander was "born" in this state function and Mr Steinmeier has been democratically elected.
Hmm, but if bad comes to worse, then our German President, our ceremonial and elected Head of State... - well, yeah, as part of the system he gets a well deserved kick into his butt too.

While a real Monarch like in the Netherlands as a part of a story going on since centuries might be looked upon as an (temporary) alternative. Don't think any further here then the Spanish Monarchy not so long ago...
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  #183  
Old 04-27-2022, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
Hmm, but if bad comes to worse, then our German President, our ceremonial and elected Head of State... - well, yeah, as part of the system he gets a well deserved kick into his butt too.

While a real Monarch like in the Netherlands as a part of a story going on since centuries might be looked upon as an (temporary) alternative. Don't think any further here then the Spanish Monarchy not so long ago...
We can, and will not ,compare apples and pears.
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  #184  
Old 04-27-2022, 03:18 AM
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The monarchy is a futility of daily life. With a King or a President in The Hague, life will simply go on. The Finnish are the happiest people on earth and there is no crowned head in Helsinki.

In the end for the daily life nothing will change. The water will flow from the tap. The trains will roll. The schools will open. With or without a King.

When 6 centuries of Orange-Nassaus will become history one day, so be it. That is evolution.
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  #185  
Old 04-27-2022, 10:19 AM
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The NOS published the annual King's Day enquete on the RF.

15% indicates that they have very/ reasonably little confidence in the King. In 2013 this number was 4% and in 2020 5%.

The King gets an average grade of 6,7 (on a scale from 1 to 10). That is down from 7,7 in 2020. The Queen is still appreciated with a 7,6, that number has not canged much from the 8,0 she received in 2020.

30% thinks that the King was not visible enough in these two COVID years.

Support for the monarchy is at 58%. While in 2020 it was still 75%. In 2022 and 2021 25% preferred a republic.

75% agree with Pss Amalia refusing her dotation in the next years. A simular number says they do not think the RF need to announce more details about her gap year.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2426669-konin...verder-gedaald
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  #186  
Old 04-27-2022, 10:39 AM
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The number of support for the monarchy is good. But I hope it will be bigger in the next polls.
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  #187  
Old 10-02-2022, 08:16 AM
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According to an IPSOS poll, the support for the monarchy has declined further. It went to 51% (from 58%).

Note that the poll was done for the Republican society. So that may have influenced the framing of the questions a bit, but still... It is a shockingly low number for the Netherlands.

Support for a republic went from 24% to 26%. Whatever it is that the remaining people support is a mystery.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2446707-peili...eunt-monarchie
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  #188  
Old 10-02-2022, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
According to an IPSOS poll, the support for the monarchy has declined further. It went to 51% (from 58%).

Note that the poll was done for the Republican society. So that may have influenced the framing of the questions a bit, but still... It is a shockingly low number for the Netherlands.

Support for a republic went from 24% to 26%. Whatever it is that the remaining people support is a mystery.

https://nos.nl/artikel/2446707-peili...eunt-monarchie

Probably that is not quiet true number but I am sitll amazed that low numbers. What are causes for that? Too high prices for royal family?
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  #189  
Old 10-02-2022, 12:31 PM
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I would say the actions of the King and Queen will be at the root of some of it. But I think it is too easy to blame it all on that. Trust in public institutions has plummeted, so that also affects the monarchy. I would say the trend is longer than the last 3 difficult COVID years and scandals (see beginning of this thread).

It will have something to do with the rise of social media & the continuous outrage and hysteria that one can find there. It will also have to do with the fact that for the last 2 decades we have hads one extreme-right populist messias in politics after the next, whose only goal is to add fuel to the fire and to stir discontent.

I always took it for granted that the monarchy had support of around 90%. But those days are over and I do not think they will ever return.

A British author once stated that the monarchy is dead but that they are making the corpses dance. And to some extend that is true. I would not be surprised to see it disappear during my lifetime.
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  #190  
Old 10-02-2022, 12:47 PM
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The new King & Queen seem to have hardly endeared themselves to the public, and of course (thankfully in some ways) a situation like Covid doesn't come along every day. It was a real test and the King & Queen were found wanting. They'll have to either take years of perfect behaviour to repair the damage or hope for another big crisis to "try again".


Were the Netherlands to become a republic I suspect the Dutch RF - or the House of Orange Nassau as they'd become, would hardly be badly off.
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  #191  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:11 PM
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The King and Queen will have to work to increase the popularity of the monarchy.
Perhaps giving more prominence to Princess Catharina-Amália is a solution. But I believe that kings can increase their popularity if they show that they are dedicated and that they care about their country.
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  #192  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:19 PM
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I hardly follow the Dutch RF. Is Princess Amalia is popular there? I only remember reading somewhere that there were initial plans of her living in a 'private residence' in Amsterdam which drew flak. Instead, she chose to live in a rented student houseshare.
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  #193  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:27 PM
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This doesn't really surprise me for numerous reasons. The current political climate in the Netherlands, the distrust of the establishment, but also the King and Queen themselves.

I loved W&A as the PoO couple but since ascending to the throne they are not very inspiring at all. I get the impression, repeatedly, that they are just a rich family begrudgingly stuck with this duty rather than treasuring, and nourishing, this unique inheritance.

It will be interesting to see how the PoO changes this perception as she gets older. She already has a certain gravitas to her and seems to appreciate the history, theater, and dignity of the monarchy.
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  #194  
Old 10-02-2022, 01:40 PM
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I hardly follow the Dutch RF. Is Princess Amalia is popular there? I only remember reading somewhere that there were initial plans of her living in a 'private residence' in Amsterdam which drew flak. Instead, she chose to live in a rented student houseshare.
Response moved to the appropriate thread.
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  #195  
Old 10-02-2022, 02:30 PM
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All institutions score alltime lows in trust and popularity. In comparison with Government, the record-breaking Prime Minister, ministers and the Parliament the score of the King is even sky high....

By the way, it is not about "popularity". The Republican Society (which ordered this poll) has determined that the majority of the responses is about the idea of hereditary succession as a form of state. There were no questions about popularity at all.

The downward trend of support for the monarchy has nothing to do with WA and Máxima. Under the "warm" Juliana, the "regal" Beatrix and the "folksy" Willem-Alexander the trend is unchangeable downward since WWII.

Slooooooooowly, every year a half procent point but year in, year out. That the 50% mark for support for a monarchy would be reached around this time was written in the stars. Some say: the higher the average education of people, the lower the support of having a hereditary monarchy as a desirable form of state.

But: for the idea of a republic only 25% is won. Conclusion: people could not be bothered at all who is their head of state.
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  #196  
Old 10-02-2022, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
The new King & Queen seem to have hardly endeared themselves to the public, and of course (thankfully in some ways) a situation like Covid doesn't come along every day. It was a real test and the King & Queen were found wanting. They'll have to either take years of perfect behaviour to repair the damage or hope for another big crisis to "try again".


Were the Netherlands to become a republic I suspect the Dutch RF - or the House of Orange Nassau as they'd become, would hardly be badly off.
There were no questions about popularity in this poll. The Republican Society focused on the question if hereditary succession indeed is a favourable form of state in a democracy, yes or no.
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  #197  
Old 10-02-2022, 04:33 PM
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I can't see how popularity of the King & Queen doesn't go hand in hand with the polling on having a monarchy. Either way, it is clear the monarchy, King & Queen whatever we call it, is trending down.
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  #198  
Old 10-02-2022, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
I can't see how popularity of the King & Queen doesn't go hand in hand with the polling on having a monarchy. Either way, it is clear the monarchy, King & Queen whatever we call it, is trending down.
Personal popularity does not connect with the support for a monarchy.

Two examples:
The personal popularity of King Philippe of the Belgians is much, much higher than the support for the monarchy as a desired form of state. (The coming Elections will see the two openly anti-Belgicist and openly republican parties getting more than 50% of the Flemish votes).

The personal approval for Crown Princess Victoria is much higher than for the idea that a monarchy is the preferred form of State for Sweden.

When the new King and Queen started in 2013, their personal approval ratings were sky rocketing. Scores the never really popular Beatrix only could dream about. But the question if a head of state is best determined by hereditary succession scored the same as under Juliana and Beatrix: a slow but steadfast downward trend.

And that is no wonder because - to be honest - no one (certainly not under 55 years old, according this poll) buys it that Mrs X or Mr Y should be head of state because of birthright. The royals themselves are very aware of it anyway, both Beatrix and Willem-Alexander have expressed to be at the service of the people "as long as there is a sufficient support for it"
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  #199  
Old 10-02-2022, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Personal popularity does not connect with the support for a monarchy.

Two examples:
The personal popularity of King Philippe of the Belgians is much, much higher than the support for the monarchy as a desired form of state. (The coming Elections will see the two openly anti-Belgicist and openly republican parties getting more than 50% of the Flemish votes).

The personal approval for Crown Princess Victoria is much higher than for the idea that a monarchy is the preferred form of State for Sweden.

When the new King and Queen started in 2013, their personal approval ratings were sky rocketing. Scores the never really popular Beatrix only could dream about. But the question if a head of state is best determined by hereditary succession scored the same as under Juliana and Beatrix: a slow but steadfast downward trend.

And that is no wonder because - to be honest - no one (certainly not under 55 years old, according this poll) buys it that Mrs X or Mr Y should be head of state because of birthright. The royals themselves are very aware of it anyway, both Beatrix and Willem-Alexander have expressed to be at the service of the people "as long as there is a sufficient support for it"
Amalia also said something along those lines. Let me include a short paragraph (translated) from the book that was published for her 18th birthday. Note that the 'I' is the writer (Claudia de Breij) and the 'she' is Amalia.

Quote:
More recently I am reading opinion pieces on the monarchy, I tell her, pieces that call for the abolition of the monarch. The argument being that it is no longer of this time to ask someone to take on such a heavy duty only because he or she was born in that position. Abolish it, because of Amalia, is the conclusion in those cases. What does she think?

At first she is surprised. Normally this is about 'it is a puppet show' and 'it is too expensive', but about her?

'It is so much bigger than me', she says. Both of us are silent. She breaks the silence with a matter of factly: 'They can do it, 'if they like' (not literal but she uses words like 'wel' and 'hoor' - so that's my interpretation (it is very informal speech), then I will continue with my life as well. But the monarchy is so much bigger than me. I have been born in a certain life and I've accepted it. Somehow it remains difficult but on the other hand I completely accepted it. It is about so much more than me.'
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  #200  
Old 10-03-2022, 02:30 AM
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Amalia also said something along those lines. Let me include a short paragraph (translated) from the book that was published for her 18th birthday. Note that the 'I' is the writer (Claudia de Breij) and the 'she' is Amalia.
Yes, the Orange-Nassaus seem to have a realistic view on it. When it is the democratic will of the people to end the hereditary monarchy: so be it.
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