'Lèse Majesté', Insults and Protests against the Royal Family

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by lucien

if someone,anyone,living here doesn't feel comfortable with a Monarchy,then let them please move,instead of provoking for provokings sake as this guy with the non dutch typical name!!In his country of origine he would be thrown in some jail and no-one would ever hear of him again...But here,in lala-land abuse of any freedom has become more rule then exception!I find that revolting,and it has to stop.

I do so agree. Anyone can disagree on any subject in a proper respectful manner. But, and a big one, no has the right to destroy another's property, life or ideals just for the shock value of it. People today think that just disliking something, gives them the "freedom" to destroy. Like it is a video game! It is all over the world and I do blame "Political Correct Crap" and Lack of Morals for most of it.

[Duc_et_Pair]

It makes me very sad. It feels as if all what had a meaning, a value, in my worldview is under erosion. It is Hallelujah! today and tomorrow it is Crucify Him!

[Muhler]

What annoys me the most is the unnecessary attention this has recieved.

That guy is basically a little boy who at a dinner party is trying to provoke by saying: "Fart".
Try a little more intelligent provocation the next time.

[Marengo]

After a few days of laughing at the absurdity of the law and the amateurism of the public prosecutors office in the press, it seems that some woke up and now focus on the perpetrator and his ideas.

An article by Vrij Nederland, a news magazine:

'Al-Jaberi is a classic rioter. Wherever he comes: he kicks as long is needed for a riot to start'

Majesteitsschennis is wel het lichtste vergrijp dat je Al-Jaberi kunt aanrekenen - Vrij Nederland

Stephan Sanders, who wrote the article, is a columnist for the magazine and a tv- and radio presentor. He says that he followed the rise of the professional activist for years, as AJ claims to speak for the journalist too as AJ says he speaks for 'all people of color' (Sanders is of mixed race) in the Netherlands. AJ wants to start a Dutch equivalent of Black Power that needs to wipe away the racist establishment (which would include the Jews in his world view).

AJ is against Black Pete, against a 'zionist identity', in favor of Hamas and against the king. Underlining his ideas is 'racist imperialism'. AJ is feted among certain circles, and invited as a speaker at various events. Most recently by the squaters/activists occupying the office of the University of Amsterdam (in the process ruining the place at a price of half a million euros). During a meeting there he called the victims of the Charlie Hebdo attack 'victims of French imperialism'.

He claims that The Netherlands will become 'a ruin' if there is no justice for colored minorities.

The author concludes the article saying that it is a mystery why anti-racism organisations invite mr Al-Jaberi.

***
Right wing blog 'thepostonline' hopes that the secret service keeps an eye on mr Al-Jaberi.

http://politiek.thepostonline.nl/col...-stuk-onbenul/

The article states that we have heard the word f*** so often these last days that it seems that the word is glorified, while normally you should wash your mouth after using it.

Apparently the politicians are on holiday too from May 1st to May 18th (!?). That explains the silence in The Hague perhaps. People seem to laugh a bit about the matter, as the king is the subject.

***
And finally: newspaper Trouw defends the law on Lèse Majesté (the only article doing so that I can recall) by CDA-senator Sophie van Bijsterveld (not on holiday apparently).

http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4492/Neder...schennis.dhtml

***
In the mean time, somebody had the luminous idea to print t-shirts with the (deliberately misspelled) text.

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/editienl/****-de-honing

However, 55% of the Dutch think that the present law on lèse majesté should remain unchanged.

http://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/binne...en-gaat-te-ver

***

And another tidbit: our favorite Amsterdam royalty reporter Frank Buis of Royal Press has apologized on youtube for his statements against Al-Jaberi. During the demonstration on museum square this weekend he said some things that he shouldn't have said to mr. Al-Jaberi.

***
And the last tidbit: vandals in Hengelo have cut down the 'Amalia tree' that was pklanted to commemorate the birth of Pss Catharina-Amalia. The city will plant a new one. The tree was cut on the evening before Kings Day, so before the whole Al-Jaberi soap opera.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/2...gezaagd__.html

[GracieGiraffe]

The question in my mind is is this protestor a sign of more trouble to come?

[Marengo]

This lèse majesté thing has been an ongoing issue. As has been the issue of allowing protests against the RF at a royal function. At large events like the inauguration this became an issue as local authorities removed two protesters from Dam square for public safety. The two made a lot of noise and the issue was milked in the press.

Most likely the discussion will disappear for a while after one or two more incidents and will be repeated again in a few months/years for the next warrior of free speech.

[GracieGiraffe]

Thanks, Marengo - this highlights the problem with the press, actually. They must and should report events, all the while trying not to give some of the people their 15 minutes of fame. Tough call.

[Marengo]

Tuesday the 2nd chamber of parlament will debate about a protest against the monarchy by tv-presentor Arjen Lubach.

As a protest he started a 'citizen-initiative' to make himself pharaoh of the Netherlands. As it was signed by more than 40.000 people the initiative has to be debated in parlement.

Cookies op Parool.nl

Although I am sure many will find it funny, it is also a waste of tax payers money. Why they actually agreed to debate the issue is a mystery, as the law on citizen-initiatives says that private topics are not to be discussed. Claiming to make yourself a pharaoh to generate attention for a newly started comedy show with bad ratings would qualify as 'private' in my book.

[lucien]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Tuesday the 2nd chamber of parlament will debate about a protest against the monarchy by tv-presentor Arjen Lubach.

As a protest he started a 'citizen-initiative' to make himself pharaoh of the Netherlands. As it was signed by more than 40.000 people the initiative has to be debated in parlement.

Cookies op Parool.nl

Although I am sure many will find it funny, it is also a waste of tax payers money. Why they actually agreed to debate the issue is a mystery, as the law on citizen-initiatives says that private topics are not to be discussed. Claiming to make yourself a pharaoh to generate attention for a newly started comedy show with bad ratings would qualify as 'private' in my book.

Some people just never make it to an institution on time.....

[Muhler]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Tuesday the 2nd chamber of parlament will debate about a protest against the monarchy by tv-presentor Arjen Lubach.

As a protest he started a 'citizen-initiative' to make himself pharaoh of the Netherlands. As it was signed by more than 40.000 people the initiative has to be debated in parlement.

Cookies op Parool.nl

Although I am sure many will find it funny, it is also a waste of tax payers money. Why they actually agreed to debate the issue is a mystery, as the law on citizen-initiatives says that private topics are not to be discussed. Claiming to make yourself a pharaoh to generate attention for a newly started comedy show with bad ratings would qualify as 'private' in my book.

Is a serious public debate on the monarchy expected to come out of this?

[Duc_et_Pair]

Well, the Second Chamber has to answer it.

Such an initiative:
- must be a new proposal which has not been discussed in the Second Chamber in the last two years (the proposal to declare the comedian Pharaoh of the Netherlands is a new one);
- the proposal has to go about a subject which is under authority of the Second Chamber, so about the state Government and not about a lower government and not about a private question (the proposal to declare the comedian Pharaoh of the Netherlands seems a private question to me);
- the proposal must not contradicting deep-rooted standards and values in the Netherlands (hard to say if Pharaoh of the Netherlands is against "deep-rooted standards and values");
- the proposal is not about the Constitution, the taxes or the State Budget (when it is his aim to replace the King with himself as Pharaoh of the Netherlands, then the initiative will be rejected as this needs a change of the Constitution).


The text of the Citizens' Initiative is as follows:


We, Citizens of the Netherlands, concluding that our nation needs a Pharaoh, considering that Mr Arjen Lubach is the most suitable person for this function, request the Second Chamber to declare Mr Arjen Hendrik Lubach, born October 22nd 1979, as the first Pharaoh of the Netherlands, Arjen Hendrik I, to recognize that the title Pharaoh of the Netherlands is hereditary and that the birthday of Pharaoh Arjen Hendrik I will be declared a National Holiday.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Marengo

[...] Why they actually agreed to debate the issue is a mystery, as the law on citizen-initiatives says that private topics are not to be discussed. Claiming to make yourself a pharaoh to generate attention for a newly started comedy show with bad ratings would qualify as 'private' in my book.

On the agenda of the Second Chamber there is only a hand-over of the 40.000 signatures to the Commission for the Petitions and the Citiziens' Initiatives. No debate, I thought.

[Duc_et_Pair]

A man has been convicted for two weeks jail for insulting the King. On Facebook he has insulted the King, Princess Beatrix and the politician Geert Wilders for thieves, murderers, rapists and included a picture of an IS-exectution (a group of people with orange overalls) with their heads photoshopped on the bodies.

Protest by the lawyer 1

The lawyer of the suspect protested against the arrest and the detention of his client by the police, he thought it was illegal.

The Court of Justice quoted from the police report: "[...] from your dossier it has become clear that a special precautionary team has investigated possible risks for the visit of the King and his spouse to Zwolle. The Facebook-page of the suspect was found and a decision was made for an arrest followed by detention.

The Court of Justice ruled that the investigation was rightful and resulted in facts and circumstances which delivered a reasonable presumption of a prosecutable fact, after which the suspect was arrested and put into detention.

Protest by the lawyer 2

The lawyer of the suspect protested because his client was prosecuted and another website which photoshopped the head of the Mayor of The Hague on the body of the murdered American journalist James Fowley (beheaded by IS) was not prosecuted.

The Court of Justice thought the mentioned photoshopped picture could not be compared with this case. The circumstance that it was not Mr Jozias van Aartsen (the Mayor of the Hague) but the person of The King, already made the cases incomparable. The Court of Justice pointed to legislation by the Supreme Court, which ruled that the person of The King was more protected against insults that others by the nature of the (dignity of the) high office. Secondly the Court of Justice pointed to the fact that the photoshopped image of the Mayor of The Hague was embedded in a journalistic article about how far censorship could go. In general, in the framework of a social discussion, a journalist has more freedom to make his point. The Court of Justice concluded that the suspect had not embedded his image in an article nor was the aim to start a relevant discussion in society.

Protest by the lawyer 3

The lawyer of the suspect protested because in the Second Chamber of the States-General (the Lower House of Parliament) there is an initiative-Bill in preparation to end the articles on Lese Majesté. Therefore the prosecution by the Public Prosecutor was not justified.

The Court of Justice was not impressed: the simple fact that an initiative-Bill is prepared does not mean that the articles on Lese Majesté no longer can be enforced. Moreover: the initiative in the Second Chamber does not aim to make insults to the King unprosecutable. The initiative points to the fact that an insult to the King can be covered by the usual articles concerning insults of thirds. The initiative-Bill only wants to harmonize the penalty on insults to the King with the usual article for insults to thirds. Therefore the Court of Justice thought that the Public Prosecution was right to use the article on Lese Majesté indeed.

Link (in Dutch): ECLI:NL:RBOVE:2016:2629, Rechtbank Overijssel, 08.730255-15 (P)

[Lee-Z]

https://www.nu.nl/politiek/5215907/t...hennis-af.html
(for some reason i can't get it translated with google translate at the moment)

Dutch government today has decided that insults of the dutch royals are no longer prohibited and are now comparable (with regards to punishment you can receive) as insulting a government employee like a police officer or ambulance personnel.
Same applies for insulting a befriended head-of-state, also not prohibited anymore (but punishable according to above)

Insulting a "regular person" (non government employee) is punishable to a somewhat less degree (that hasn't changed but the article mentions it to be complete)

Reason cited fod this decision is "Freedom of opinion", the initiative received a majority of the votes in the dutch "Tweede Kamer"

[Somebody]

Initially the proposal was to treat the king like any other 'regular person', however, this was not supported by a majority. Hence, the initiator had to change it to an official in office (which seems appropriate as the king is always 'in office').