General Questions About the Dutch Royal Family

[Duc_et_Pair]

Keep it simple. Most likely it will not even reach the eyes of the Queen herself. Start with Your Majesty and for the rest it is Madame (for the King: Sir). Just follow usual etiquette for any normal letter. That is all.

Note that your letter will be received by the Dienst Koninklijk Huis (Royal House Service) and then distributed to the Kabinet van de Koning (the official secretariate) or to the Particulier Secretaris (the Private Secretary) which will then distribute it furtherer in the pipeline.

The chance is there that your request will be answered by a ministerial department, for an example the Department of Education. In that case the Royal House will give notice that your letter has been forwarded. That the King or Queen actually see your letter will be rare. They are given a selection of letters by the Secretariate, meaning that officials have the opinion it needs a personal consideration by the royal in question.

 

[mariastan]

correspondence etiquette

thank you. either way, i hope she shall hear about it. i have had the opportunity to see her at the EBC meeting some days ago and heard her speech.

She is indeed an inspiration to many of us.

Thank you once again,

Maria

 

[Tatiana Maria]

When was the decision taken that Prince Johan Friso and Prince Constantijn were to have private careers, rather than becoming full-time working royals?

Was it decided on the initiative of the Royal Family or by the Government?

What contributed to the decision, which was a break with tradition?


Thank you in advance to anyone who can assist with the questions.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

When was the decision taken that Prince Johan Friso and Prince Constantijn were to have private careers, rather than becoming full-time working royals?

Was it decided on the initiative of the Royal Family or by the Government?

What contributed to the decision, which was a break with tradition?


Thank you in advance to anyone who can assist with the questions.

Both princes themselves pursued their own careers. They had to anyway as in the Netherlands the group of royals receiving an income from the State is limited to six: the current King, the future King, the previous King, and their eventual spouses. So Prince Friso and Prince Constantijn already knew they were in the same position as their cousins from aunt Irene, aunt Margriet and aunt Christina. Especially Prince Friso was succesful: his widow Mabel is probably the most wealthy individual royal thanks to clever investments by the late Prince. He would never ever made that fortune when he received an income from the State and would - therefore - have been limited in his freedom to enterprise.

 

[Marengo]

It was clear that the princes would never receive an income from the state from the beginning. Their aunts - the younger daughters of Queen Juliana- never received one either.

It was said in the 70-ties that the late Prince Bernhard was keen on his grandchildren learning a trade and finding a job later on in life. Also because the family was not sure how much longer the insitution would last.

I never heard anything about the government intervening in the matter, it seemed to have been a wish of the family which coinsided with public opinion. I suppose it was a relative new phenonemon as both Wilhelmina as Juliana had no surviving siblings.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It was clear that the princes would never receive an income from the state from the beginning. Their aunts - the younger daughters of Queen Juliana- never received one either.

It was said in the 70-ties that the late Prince Bernhard was keen on his grandchildren learning a trade and finding a job later on in life. Also because the family was not sure how much longer the insitution would last.

I never heard anything about the government intervening in the matter, it seemed to have been a wish of the family which coinsided with public opinion. I suppose it was a relative new phenonemon as both Wilhelmina as Juliana had no surviving siblings.

And as members of the Royal House with an income from the State, it looks hard to me that Prince Friso or Bernhard van Vollenhoven could set up a low-cost airline, be a banker at Goldman Sachs or own 350+ real estate properties in Ámsterdam alone plus a Formula One race circuit. Not being a recipient of any single cent from the State was the best situation for them.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you to Marengo and Duc_et_Pair for your assistance. It is interesting that the royal family acted on their own to limit the number of working royals without governmental and/or public pressure as for instance in Belgium, Spain or Sweden.

How were Princess Margriet and Pieter van Vollenhoven able to finance their role as working royals, and how were all three sisters of Queen Beatrix able to support themselves and their families, without receiving a state income? None of the princesses appear to have pursued careers as lucrative as those of their nephews Friso and Constantijn.

 

[Marengo]

The four daughters of Queen Juliana all received a substantial inheritance from their grandmother, Queen Wilhelmina. If wisely invested it could have grown over the years. In the case of Pss Irene it is not clear if this happened. It was said she invested some of her inheritance on the restauration of Chateau de Lignières which was later inherited by her awful ex-brother-in-law and not by her ex-husband/ son.

After the death of Queen Juliana it appeared that she had set up a fund that would provide her three younger daughters with an annual income. The initial sum was 5 million guilders -donated in the 1960s- which resulted in 116.000 Euros per year for each of the three younger daughters. Queen Juliana had set up a simular fund for her husband, which contained 4 million guilders. The remainder of Prince Bernhard's fund was split between his 4 legal daughters.

After the death of Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard the princesses received two substantial inheritances. Princess Irene was able to by an estate in South-Africa while princess Margriet converted her bungalow in Apeldoorn from this to this. The place seems to be larger than both Drakensteyn as Villa Eikenhorst.

Princess Margriet 's work and that of her husband is not paid. They do get their costs reimbursed from the monarch. It is not known how much this sum involves. I do not know if Prof. Pieter's work for the National Safety Board was paid, but I would be surprised if it were.

As for Princess Beatrix... Her father once said: 'Trix heeft niks' (Trix has nothing). He estimated that she owned less than a million Euros. She supposedly had to borrow money from her father for a wedding gift for WA and Máxima (a set of tableware). The explanation I have read is that as a monarch she was expected to pay for certain things from her own pocket, such as food for the animals at het Loo etc.

Prince Constantijn's carreer is not so lucrative in comparison to other relatives. It provides a comfortable upper-middle class lifestyle but nothing more than that. Prince Friso was a keen investor but was sadly not able to see the results of his investments. Last year the stock portfolio of Pss Mabel was valued at 300 million Euros.

I am not sure how much the younger members of the RF have inherited. Though at the time of the divorce of Princess Margaritha it was said that her horrible ex-husband had spend 800.000 Euros of her money. It was said to have equaled her entire inheritance from Queen Juliana.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The four daughters of Queen Juliana all received a substantial inheritance from their grandmother, Queen Wilhelmina. If wisely invested it could have grown over the years. In the case of Pss Irene it is not clear if this happened. It was said she invested some of her inheritance on the restauration of Chateau de Lignières which was later inherited by her awful ex-brother-in-law and not by her ex-husband/ son.

After the death of Queen Juliana it appeared that she had set up a fund that would provide her three younger daughters with annual income. The initial was 5 million guilders -donated in the 1960s- which resulted in 116.000 Euros per year for each of the three younger daughters. Queen Juliana had set up a simular fund for her husband, which contained 4 million guilders. The remainder of Prince Bernhard's fund was split between his 4 legal daughters.

After the death of Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard the princesses received two substantial inheritances. Princess Irene was able to by an estate in South-Africa while princess Margriet converted her bungalow in Apeldoorn from this to this. The place seems to be larger than both Drakensteyn as Villa Eikenhorst.

Princess Margriet 's work and that of her husband is not paid. They do get their costs reimbursed from the monarch. It is not known how much this sum involves. I do not know if Prof. Pieter's work for the National Safety Board was paid, but I would be surprised if it were.

As for Princess Beatrix... Her father once said: 'Trix heeft niks' (Trix has nothing). He estimated that she owned less than a million Euros. She supposedly had to borrow money from her father for a wedding gift for WA and Máxima (a set of tableware). The explanation I have read is that as a monarch she was expected to pay for certain things from her own pocket, such as food for the animals at het Loo etc.

Prince Constantijn's carreer is not so lucrative in comparison to other relatives. It provides a comfortable upper-middle class lifestyle but nothing more than that. Prince Friso was a keen investor but was sadly not able to see the results of his investments. Last year the stock portfolio of Pss Mabel was valued at 300 million Euros.

I am not sure how much the younger members of the RF have inherited. Though at the time of the divorce of Princess Margaritha it was said that her horrible ex-husband had spend 800.000 Euros of her money. It equaled her entire inheritance from Queen Juliana.

It seems the 14 grandchildren of Queen Juliana received around 1 million each, so with the purchase of the Château de Bartas (picture: https://www.france-pittoresque.com/IMG/jpg/Chateau-Bartas.jpg) in the Gers, France, I can imagine most of Princess Margarita's inheritance was spent indeed.

The house of Prince Constantijn (picture - the one with the orange rooftiles: https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p5Ii9yus...sgNQJ1MIpNZO6RkwCLcB/s1600/het+hoenstraat.jpg) was purchased without mortgage, according to the land registry.

The rumour is that Queen Wilhelmina had set up a fund of 15 million for each of her four grandchildren. Queen Juliana had set up a Fund Functional Costs of the House Orange-Nassau (to reimburse the costs of the three youngest daughters in their royal function). Queen Beatrix has set up the Fund Functional Costs of the House Orange-Nassau II (to reimburse the costs of the two youngest sons in their royal function). We may expect King Willem-Alexander creating a Fund Functional Costs of the House Orange-Nassau III (to reimburse the costs of the two youngest daughters in their royal function).

With the remark "Trix has nothing" Prince Bernhard will have meant that the bulk of the private fortune was not with her but with her mother, the abdicated Queen.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

[....] while princess Margriet converted her bungalow in Apeldoorn from this to this. The place seems to be larger than both Drakensteyn as Villa Eikenhorst.

[....] .

I am curious to learn what the future will be of this BIG modern house in the forests of the Crown Domain. It is close to Het Loo Palace and would make a nice residence for The Princess of Orange. Of course the same can be said about Villa Eikenhorst and Drakensteyn.

 

[Somebody]

I am curious to learn what the future will be of this BIG modern house in the forests of the Crown Domain. It is close to Het Loo Palace and would make a nice residence for The Princess of Orange. Of course the same can be said about Villa Eikenhorst and Drakensteyn.

Hadn't really given it much thought. Would one of their sons want to move back to Apeldoorn at some point? I don't see them moving back soon but given that the eldest are to retire in 10-15 years time (I guess they could easily retire before age 67), that might be a time to leave Amsterdam/de randstad behind...

 

[Somebody]

Based on my previous comment on Laurentien's background, I figured it might be interesting for some newer members to learn a bit more about the background of the 7 brides of the Dutch princes - all married between 1998 and 2005. Some have quite prominent fathers (politically) - in other cases not much is known about their family background.

Marilène van de Broek married prince Maurits on 29 May 1998 (civil) and 30 May 1998 (religious)
Father: Hans van den Broek - among others: member of parliament (KVP (Catholic People's Party)/CDA (Christian Democratic Alliance), minister of foreign affairs, European Commissioner for External Relations, Minister of State)
Mother: Josée van den Broek-van Schendel
Marilène: studied Business Administration in Groningen; worked/s in commercial and marketing positions for Albert Hein (large company of grocery stores), Rijksmuseum (most famous Dutch museum) and BankGiro Loterij (lottery)

Annette Sekrève married prince Bernhard on 6 July 2000 (civil) and 8 July 2000 (religious)
Her father: Ulrich Sekrève (divorced)
Her mother: Jolanda de Haan (divorced)
Annette: studied Psychology in Groningen; worked as counselor in the care for the disabled

Laurentien Brinkhorst (previously known by her first name Petra) married prince Constantijn on 17 May 2001 (note: Máxima's birthday - she got her Dutch nationality that same day)
Father: Laurens Jan Brinkhorst - among others: member of Dutch parliament and party leader for D'66 (Democrats 1966), member of the European parliament, minister of Agriculture, Nature Conservation and Fishery; minister of Economics and vice prime minister
Mother: Jantien Brinkhorst-Heringa - university study friend of queen/princess Beatrix
Laurentien: grew partly up in Tokyo; studied history (Propedeutic Exam) in Groningen, political sciences in London and journalism at Berkeley. Had various communication roles at companies such as CNN, European Policy Center and Philip Morris before starting as an independent communication advisor.

Máxima Zorreguieta married the prince of Orange on 2 February 2002
Father: Jorge Horacio Zorreguieta Stefanini - among others: many agricultural related positions, including secretary of state and minister of Agriculture (and cattle/stock breeding) under Videla; married firstly Marta López Gil (divorced) and secondly Máxima's mother
Mother: Maria del Carmen Cerruti
Máxima: studied Economics in Buenos Aires, worked for HSBC James Capel Inc. and Dresdner Kleinwort Benson in New York before working for Deutsche Bank in Brussels to be closer to Willem-Alexander.

Mabel Wisse Smit (previously known as Mabel Los (Los being her father's surname; Wisse Smit her 'better sounding' stepfather's surname) - her mother remarried after her father's untimely death; unfortunately, she also experienced early widowhood just like her mother) married prince Friso on 24 April 2004
Father: Henk Los - died in 1978 when trying to save someone who had fallen through the ice when ice skating); when Mabel was 9 years old
Mother: Florence Kooman
Stepfather: Peter Wisse Smit - banker; her half-sister Evelien was a professional hockey player
Mabel: studied economics and political sciences in Amsterdam (cum laude); worked for the United Nations specializing in the Balkan countries (including playing a role in reaching the Dayton Agreement); started various NGOs such as European Action Council for Peace in the Balkans and War child The Netherlands; worked as director for Open Society Institute and The Elders. Currently, active in the Girls not Brides organization/campaign (her initiative when still working for The Elders - a role she quit to care for her hospitalized husband).

Anita van Eijk married prince Pieter-Christiaan on 25 August 2005 (civil) and 27 August 2005 (religious)
Father: ir. Leonardus Antonius van Eijk - engineer who worked in various expat positions
Mother: J.C.M. van Eijk-Steens
Anita: born in Switzerland, lived in France for a few years, live a few years in the Netherlands, live a few years in Singapore (where she studied at United World College); studied English and Literature in Leiden and communication sciences in Amsterdam. Worked at Bloomberg in Amsterdam and London and shortly at Christie's. Since her marriage it has been stated that she is an 'entrepreneur' - but it is completely unclear in what.

Aimée Söhngen married prince Floris on 20 October 2005 (civi) and 22 October 2005 (religious)
Father: J.H.M. (Hans) Söhngen
Mother: E.L.F.M. (Eleonoor) Söhngen-Stammeijer
Aimée: studied Law in Leiden; worked for Fortis Bank, Pon Automotiv and ANWB (most well-known travellers' association in the Netherlands) in project management and marketing positions. Has been on a sabbatical since 2015.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

From the 14 grandchildren of Queen Juliana only the Prince of Orange (Royal Navy and pilot's license at the Royal Air Force), Maurits van Vollenhoven (Royal Navy) and Pieter-Christiaan van Vollenhoven (Royal Marechaussee) had any link to the military. The first two because there still was compulsory military service. The last one by own career choice.

The compulsory attendance has been officially suspended since 1 May 1997. This means that cadets entering the Royal Military Academy (officers) or aspirants entering the Royal Military School (non-officers) are aiming for a professional career in the Armed Forces.

Does it also mean that if the King's eldest child were a son, he would not be able to marry someday in military uniform, unlike other European crown princes? Or would the Prince of Orange hold honorary positions which would give him access to a ceremonial uniform for his wedding?

 

[SLV]

Yes, he could. King W-A did so. He only resigned all militairy thing when ascending the throne.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Yes, he could. King W-A did so. He only resigned all militairy thing when ascending the throne.

Indeed, King Willem-Alexander married in military uniform, but he completed actual military service. My question was about his hypothetical son who (based on the opinions in the Princess of Orange's thread) probably would not have military experience.

 

[lucien]

Indeed, King Willem-Alexander married in military uniform, but he completed actual military service. My question was about his hypothetical son who (based on the opinions in the Princess of Orange's thread) probably would not have military experience.

We don t do hypothetical sons.It s already a handfull to raise three beautifull girls.?

 

[SLV]

Then, no, not if the son hasn't done any service.

Indeed, King Willem-Alexander married in military uniform, but he completed actual military service. My question was about his hypothetical son who (based on the opinions in the Princess of Orange's thread) probably would not have military experience.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I have noticed that when a Dutch monarch is mentioned, Queen Juliana of The Netherlands for example, the word The before Netherlands is sometimes capitalized. At other times The begins with a t in lower case.
Which is correct: Queen Juliana of The Netherlands
or Queen Juliana of the Netherlands.

 

[Lee-Z]

I have noticed that when a Dutch monarch is mentioned, Queen Juliana of The Netherlands for example, the word The before Netherlands is sometimes capitalized. At other times The begins with a t in lower case.
Which is correct: Queen Juliana of The Netherlands
or Queen Juliana of the Netherlands.

In dutch the official title of the head of state is:
Koning(in) der Nederlanden
(Koning for a man, Koningin for a woman)

The offcial name of the country in dutch is:
Nederland

now for the english translations, I have used the site of "Onze Taal" which is an organisation of language enthousiasts.
https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/holland-the-netherlands

The offical translation of the country name in english is:
the Netherlands
(note that in dutch the country name is in singular tense, but in english it's plural, and in the title of the head of state it's also plural)

with regards to capitalizing the article "the" or "The", Onze Taal states
"Het lidwoord*the*in*The Netherlands*wordt soms met een kleine*t*geschreven en soms met een hoofdletter*T. In Engelse naslagwerken wordt meestal geadviseerd om een kleine letter te gebruiken als de naam in lopende tekst voorkomt (‘We live in the Netherlands’) en een hoofdletter in de adressering op een envelop."

which translates to:
both the and The is used. English reference books state that when used in a sentence it is advised to use "the", when used as a address on an envelope "The".
So "The King lives in the Netherlands", but when you send him a postcard, on the Addressline you'd put as last line "The Netherlands"

 

[An Ard Ri]

I would have thought that The referred to the country as in The Netherlands or The Untied States /The United Kingdom /The Republic of Ireland and so.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

I would have thought that The referred to the country as in The Netherlands or The Untied States /The United Kingdom /The Republic of Ireland and so.

I agree. I shall continue to capitalize The in The Netherlands when possible.

 

[Somebody]

I would have thought that The referred to the country as in The Netherlands or The Untied States /The United Kingdom /The Republic of Ireland and so.

You cannot have Netherlands without 'the', however, the practice of only capitalizing in some situations seems consistent with Dutch practice regarding surnames. For example, princess Marilène's maiden name is 'van den Broek'; in most cases 'van (and der)' would not be capitalized. So her name prior to marriage would always be written as 'Marilène van den Broek' (this also applies to using initials (M.-H. A.) or if the name is part of a hyphenated name); only if no other part of the name is present the first (but not the second) of the prefixes will be capitalized.

The above of course also applies to 'van Vollenhoven' (Pieter), 'van Amsberg' (Claus), 'van Eijk' (Anita), 'van Lippe-Biesterfeld' (Bernhard).

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Could you clarify the Dutch rules of capitalizing titles as well? In English, Marilène's title would invariably be written as "Princess Marilène" with the P capitalized (unless given as a description such "the Dutch businesswoman and princess Marilène", I suppose), but it has come to my attention that "prinses Marilène" and "Prinses Marilène" are both found in Dutch writing. In which usages should be the P in prinses be capitalized?

now for the english translations, I have used the site of "Onze Taal" which is an organisation of language enthousiasts.
https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/holland-the-netherlands

[...]

English reference books state that when used in a sentence it is advised to use "the", when used as a address on an envelope "The".
So "The King lives in the Netherlands", but when you send him a postcard, on the Addressline you'd put as last line "The Netherlands"

As an English speaker, I would say that is the average practice indeed.

 

[Lee-Z]

I agree. I shall continue to capitalize The in The Netherlands when possible.

If you would write "He lives in The United States", then you can also write "He lives in The Netherlands".

Personally I would write "He lives in the United States" and simply "United States of America" as an address line.

But that's in dutch, as this is an international forum, mainly english language, so the way it would be written in dutch is not really relevant here

So just go for it, as long as you don't start lecturing others that they write things wrong, it's all good

 

[Lee-Z]

Could you clarify the Dutch rules of capitalizing titles as well? In English, Marilène's title would invariably be written as "Princess Marilène" with the P capitalized (unless given as a description such "the Dutch businesswoman and princess Marilène", I suppose), but it has come to my attention that "prinses Marilène" and "Prinses Marilène" are both found in Dutch writing. In which usages should be the P in prinses be capitalized?

.

Again went to Onze Tall
https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/koning-willem-alexander

the word "koning" (King) is always written with a small letter "koning" unless it happens to be the first word of a sentence (same with koningin etc), because nowadays these are considered jobtitles and jobtitles are written without a capital letter (think of "butcher", "baker", "engineer").
However if this is proceeded with a form of address, "Zijne Majesteit" (His Majesty), which always uses capitals, the word koning will also be written with a capital, so
"Tomorrow king Willem-Alexander will pay a visit"
"Tomorrow His Majesty King Willem-Alexander will pay a visit"

In the Netherlands there is a difference between the Royal House and the royal family, Royal House is considered a "name" so that is capitalized, royal family is without capitals.


Other royal titles are similarly written without caps
https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/adellijke-titulatuur


should you want to write that postcard to one of the royals, then this is a handy list on what to put on the address on the envelope and how to start your card ?
https://onzetaal.nl/taaladvies/geachte-majesteit

but like i mentioned in previous post, this is only if you start writing in dutch, which i think we usually don't do on these forums

 

[CyrilVladisla]

In the computer's General Search I typed: Middle name of Queen Maxima.
Many results came up, including information about her build which was declared to be Slender. Even Wikipedia was not helpful.
Does she have a middle name such as Maria?

 

[Lee-Z]

In the computer's General Search I typed: Middle name of Queen Maxima.
Many results came up, including information about her build which was declared to be Slender. Even Wikipedia was not helpful.
Does she have a middle name such as Maria?

https://www.koninklijkhuis.nl/leden-koninklijk-huis/koningin-maxima/jeugd
on 'Koninklijkhuis.nl' her full birthname is listed as Maxima Zorreguita; for her parents the full names include middlenames, on the page for P.Laurentien her full name including middle names is listed.
So i think we can assume that Maxima's name is actually just Maxima without middlenames.
(i am the same, have no middle names either)

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Lee-Z, Thank you for your informative reply. I am so use to royal and aristocratic ladies having one or more middle names.

 

[kalnel]

How tall is King Willem-Alexander? I saw some video of him greeting Prince Harry at the Invictus Games, and the King appears to be several inches taller than Harry, who is quite tall.

Also, how tall are/were his brothers? In old pictures, the King is so tall, he makes them look a bit short. But in pictures with other groups of people, Constantijn seems taller than average.

Friso appears to have been the shortest of the three, about the same height as Prince Claus. In video of Queen Beatrix and Prince Claus visiting the White House in the 80s, Claus appears to be about the same height as Ronald Reagan, who was 6'1" (185.4 cm).

Their cousins seem to be relatively short by comparison.

 

[Curryong]

All the sources I’ve read put King Willem-Alexander at 6 feet tall. Harry is 6ft 1 inch according to past websites. However it’s how you carry yourself as well. From a teen Harry has been inclined to slouch. Bad posture makes a difference in photos.