Future of the Dutch Monarchy

[Marengo]

As a simular thread has been introduced in other forums we might as well start it here.

What are your thougts on the future of the Dutch monarchy? What changes do you expect in the future or what traditions do you want to keep?

 

[Henri M.]

Since the monarchy in the Netherlands is strong and can met widely approval, I expect almost no changes.

When The Prince of Orange assumes the kingship, he can use the 'brand new' (restored) Royal Palace Amsterdam, he can use an almost completley restored carriage collection, inclusive the Golden State Carriage and the Royal Hearse, he can live and work in two excellent royal palaces (Huis ten Bosch and Noordeinde) and use the fabulous Royal Palace Het Loo in Apeldoorn.

The Court Organization is modernized and updated. All processes are precizely described in blueprints and is certified with an ISO90002 certificate.

The future King has a strong, well-educated and experienced spouse, who will probably bring Latin flavour in the proceedings at the Court. Where the Oranges have a bit of restrained attitude towards glanz und gloria, I expect the spouse of the future King to upgrade or re-instate the old glitz back at Court.



With other words: the future is sunny and bright.

 

[lucien]

As the Monarchy,or better The House of Orange,is a deep rooted institution here in the Netherlands I don't expect any changes at all in respect of the form of State for the future,not near,and not the distant under Queen Catharina-Amalia.

Besides that,imho,Alexander and Máxima are second to none in the field of education,experience and involvement with modern global issues,their intellectual approach of tackling issues combined with charm,passion and humour,elevates them to another level then many of their collegues,however nice,or older,they may be.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

After last general elections, the Second Chamber (House of Representatives) choose to appoint a so-called "informateur" by itself, to look for possibilities to form a new Government which can count on a majority in Parliament. This has always been a royal prerogative, vested in tradition (nowhere in the Constitution is stated that it is the King who has the lead in the formation of a new Cabinet).

Today the Dutch newspaper De Volkskrant had a report about an evaluation of this constutional novum, see article.

In essence the Commission (the Professores Paul Bovend'Eert, Carla van Baalen and Alexander van Kessel) advised to give more attention and 'body' to the King's right to be informed. As head of state ánd member of the Government (in the Dutch Constitution the Goverment comprises of the King and the ministers) the King should be "more regularly and more precizely" informed about the proceedings. The End Report of the Formateur should be offered to the King as well.

The King should not be used for "last help" when the formation of a new Cabinet fails. When such an attempt fails, it is the Chamber itself to solve the deadlock and it should not to mix the old procedure (the King has the lead) with the new procedure (the Chamber has the lead).

One of the fraction leaders commented: "Courtesy towards the King is fine, but the right to be informed is about the Government. This is a procedure of the Chamber, not of the Government." By the way: the Commission pointed that the staff of Queen Beatrix was updated all the time by the Chamber's Clerk Office.

Another member of the Chamber: "I still see a danger (of again involving the King): the last elections gave a clear direction. When there are four possible combinations to form a majority, I still have to see who is the one to give the final go-ahead."

 

[Blog Real]

Dutch monarchy remains safe in elections
This is confirmed by Piet van Assendolk, a reporter for the public television network NOS covering the information of the Dutch royal house. Van Asaendolk has analyzed the programs of the political parties that are presented to the next elections, and if conclusion is clear: the king Willem-Alexander has little to fear.

Some of the candidates do talk about introducing greater mechanisms of direct democracy, and in more left or minority parties include proposals to cut the costs of the crown or to pay more taxes. But those who question the monarchy are counted.

The political formation that can become the "star" of these elections is the ultra-right Freedom Party, which rejects immigration and the "Islamization" of Holland, contrary to the European Union, and led by Geert Wilders.

In its program, the Freedom Party makes no mention of the monarchy, while those who follow it in the surveys do, but in a positive way.

This is the case of the People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD), the center-right liberals led by Prime Minister Mark Rutte, the candidate for the elections. The VVD is committed to making changes in the institutional distribution of power, but without that goes against the monarchy: as the Liberals declare in their program, "it is the best form of state for the Netherlands."

As for the Social Democrats of the Labor Party, who have governed the last five years in coalition with liberal lis, they insist that the monarchy is "an important factor of union in the Dutch society". Of course, they add that it is necessary to modernize the institution, also in the economic area.

Also expressing their support for the figure of the king are smaller political formations of Christian social, Catholic, Protestant and Calvinist, while the retired 50Plus party praises the modernity of the current monarchy.

More critical is the center-left party Democrats66, which bases its program on defending direct democracy mechanisms: it recognizes the "unifying" role of the king and the royal family in the Netherlands, but calls for greater economic sobriety of the crown .

The only proposals that really contradict the monarchy come from the Greens and the Socialists. Both bet that in the future the Dutch vote to elect their head of state, but meanwhile the Socialists propose that the king has no political influence - which now has in the process of forming the government - and that the members of the house Real pay all taxes on income and wealth.
La monarquía holandesa se mantiene a salvo en las elecciones

The monarchy in the Netherlands is not in danger. Most people support the monarchy and the Royal Family is very popular. The King and Queen are also very popular.

 

[Empress Merel]

What some parties think is not important. The monarchy is as strong as ever.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What some parties think is not important. The monarchy is as strong as ever.

Hm... while surveys show great personal popularity for the King and especially Queen Máxima, the general support for a monarchy as form of state is years and years downhill.

There is no direct danger for the monarchy and the complete fragmentation of the political landscape keeps it away from big changes (it is easier for two parties having a majority to propose changes than when 5 or 6 parties are needed to obtain a majority).

But it all hangs on personal popularity. And the verb says it: it comes by feet and leaves on horseback (gaining and keeping popularity is long work and it can go downhill overnight). We will see how long a system of state based on hereditary succession can survive purely because charismatic Máxima is so liked.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The monarchy in the Netherlands is not in danger. Most people support the monarchy and the Royal Family is very popular. The King and Queen are also very popular.

The monarchy is not in direct danger but the approval for the institution on itself is crumbling for years and years. The Dutch monarchy is also the most expensive one in Europe (but this open for debate because of different accountancy methods in other monarchies). Du moment that polls indicate that support has crumbled to 50%, mechanisms will start to have an own effect.

Note that, like in Sweden, popularity of individuals like Máxima or Victoria can be sky high, but at the same time the answer on the question: "Do you prefer a form of state with an elected head of state or do you prefer a head of state by hereditary succession?" can actually show a majority of the Dutch going for a republic. It would not surprise me at all, to be honest. The monarchy is simply still there because the individuals are liked. But look to Belgium or Spain: Albert II and Juan Carlos were once very popular figures.... With other words: when Willem-Alexander or Amalia, in this 24/24 media society make a serious error, or scandal, or misdemeanour, it is enough to let the monarchy rock on its crumbling fundaments.

 

[eya]

"The Dutch public is more supportive of the monarchy this year. 70 percent of Dutch now say they are behind monarchy, compared to a low point of 65 percent last year, according to NOS' annual King's Day Survey performed by Ipsos. The increased support for the monarchy coincides with a slight increase in trust in King Willem-Alexander, NOS reports."


Dutch show more support for monarchy, more trust in king | NL Times

 

[Muhler]

I thank that's very much attributable to Queen Maxima, who influence King W-A - And it helps to have cute kids as well.
But a vital Regent Couple in their prime IMO makes a huge difference, with all due respect to older monarchs.

Royals between 30-55 are in their prime and that's when they should really be put to work - regardless of their position in the hierarchy.
Because at that age they appeal to the widest span of people and can (naturally) cower the widest area . and have most energy combined with experience.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Its early days in WA kingship his mother was a hard act to follow but I'm sure with Queen Máxima at his side the drop in support will reverse.

 

[lucien]

"The Dutch public is more supportive of the monarchy this year. 70 percent of Dutch now say they are behind monarchy, compared to a low point of 65 percent last year, according to NOS' annual King's Day Survey performed by Ipsos. The increased support for the monarchy coincides with a slight increase in trust in King Willem-Alexander, NOS reports."


Dutch show more support for monarchy, more trust in king | NL Times

And this IPSOS survey was before the interview! I bet it's much higher now.

 

[eya]

"King Willem-Alexander has become more popular in the past year, according to a survey by DVJ Insights commissioned by RTL News. It is especially appreciated after the television interview that was broadcast this week.
This week the king celebrated his 50th birthday. He therefore gave an interview on NPO 1 and RTL 4. Yesterday, 150 people who were also on April 27th were allowed to eat at the Palace on the Dam.
In a survey of over 500 Dutch (.xls), 72.8 percent now gives the king an 8 or higher as a report. Last year the same question was asked. Then he got an 8 out of just over half of the respondents. On average, the king gets a report of 8.0. Last year the average was 7.8.
King Willem-Alexander is not the most popular royal. That honor has been for his wife Máxima for years, and that will be the case. For more than 45 percent of the interviewees, she is the most popular, Willem-Alexander is in place two with 18.4 percent. The least popular are Mabel (0.4 percent), Princess Ariane (1.4 percent) and Princess Laurentia (1.5 percent)."

https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nederland/populariteit-koning-gestegen-maar-maxima-blijft-populairder

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

How can Princess Ariane, just 10 years old, be "the least popular"? This is illustrative for the nonsense of such polls. One can only nominate one royal so Mabel (no nember of the Royal House, not even living in the Netherlands) or Ariane (a girl at the local village primary school) become "the least popular".

Take it all with an inch of salt. In a few months there will be rumours again about Amalia's future lavish annual allowance, or about tax agreements between Prince Bernhard and the Government in 1972, and hoppa! the ratings go down again.

 

[Jacknch]

I agree - I don't think the results of these polls reflect unpopularity properly. It does not suggest that Ariane is un-popular per se, just that out of the choices given, most people will naturally choose Maxima or Willem-Alexander, leaving only a few people left to choose other members of the Royal Family.

 

[Muhler]

How can Princess Ariane, just 10 years old, be "the least popular"? This is illustrative for the nonsense of such polls. One can only nominate one royal so Mabel (no nember of the Royal House, not even living in the Netherlands) or Ariane (a girl at the local village primary school) become "the least popular".

Take it all with an inch of salt. In a few months there will be rumours again about Amalia's future lavish annual allowance, or about tax agreements between Prince Bernhard and the Government in 1972, and hoppa! the ratings go down again.

She should never even have been listed in the poll in the first place.

It's completely meaningless to list a non-working child.

 

[IrishRoyals]

What are the socialist parties proposing to limit the monarchies powers? Hasn't he lost all effect influence and powers already?

 

[Lee-Z]

She should never even have been listed in the poll in the first place.

It's completely meaningless to list a non-working child.

Agree, the poll should only be about adult royals

Other than that imo it gives a pretty good popularity indication from what we see in media and public response throughout the year: K.W-A is doing pretty well in popularity but Q.Maxima is by far the most popular (and talked about in a good way) member of the RF.

Maybe it will surprise the international public on these forums that former Q.Beatrix' score is quite low (even after "all equally popular" and "don't know"), but imo that too reflects the current "vibe" the RF has in the media and public opinion

Aside from their popularity as people, yes there will be complaints about their cost and spending in the future, but we dutch love to complain about money anyway

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

What are the socialist parties proposing to limit the monarchies powers? Hasn't he lost all effect influence and powers already?

Not socialist parties. The idea that the monarchy should only have a ceremonial role is widely supported in all parties from the left to the right. From the start of his kingship King Willem-Alexander has changed the accent: from a monarchy very much a part of the DNA of the state institutions, "The Hague", it has become a more parallel institution, more floating away from politics and creating an own existence in a changed world. King Willem-Alexander has been completely a-political so far and that is a wise policy indeed: his aim is to connect, not to divide.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

So any new polls for the popularity of the House of Orange-Nassau? I still find the sudden dips in popularity after the new king took the throne rather bizarre, I mean I understand the king was a bit of a klutz but the major dip in popularity was a bit much in opinion.

-Frozen Royalist

P.S. You know what, I've honestly found the opinion polls for the Netherlands and Sweden to be rather suspicious, I mean if republicans were that popular wouldn't we've seen major republican demonstrations throughout the two kingdoms reflecting the poll results? I mean I can sort of understand that the polls for Belgium and Spain are at least on point with the rest of the kingdoms with separatist movements and the occasional scandal but I think the dip of support in the Netherlands was rather baseless, I know attitudes change but wouldn't we've seen discussions in the Dutch parliament about a possible referendum?

 

[Somebody]

So any new polls for the popularity of the House of Orange-Nassau? I still find the sudden dips in popularity after the new king took the throne rather bizarre, I mean I understand the king was a bit of a klutz but the major dip in popularity was a bit much in opinion.

-Frozen Royalist

P.S. You know what, I've honestly found the opinion polls for the Netherlands and Sweden to be rather suspicious, I mean if republicans were that popular wouldn't we've seen major republican demonstrations throughout the two kingdoms reflecting the poll results? I mean I can sort of understand that the polls for Belgium and Spain are at least on point with the rest of the kingdoms with separatist movements and the occasional scandal but I think the dip of support in the Netherlands was rather baseless, I know attitudes change but wouldn't we've seen discussions in the Dutch parliament about a possible referendum?

What dips and polls are you referring to? The last polls were done in April just before the King turned 50 and his interview was well received; so that most likely increased his popularity (at least for a short period of time) - see previous posts.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

What dips and polls are you referring to? The last polls were done in April just before the King turned 50 and his interview was well received; so that most likely increased his popularity (at least for a short period of time) - see previous posts.

I'm talking about some of the old polls where support of the monarchy was around 50% or so. I understand the latest polls are around 70% and the king having 79% but still. What I was generally getting at was the sudden dip in the past, not recently.

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Lee-Z]

So any new polls for the popularity of the House of Orange-Nassau? I still find the sudden dips in popularity after the new king took the throne rather bizarre, I mean I understand the king was a bit of a klutz but the major dip in popularity was a bit much in opinion.

-Frozen Royalist

P.S. You know what, I've honestly found the opinion polls for the Netherlands and Sweden to be rather suspicious, I mean if republicans were that popular wouldn't we've seen major republican demonstrations throughout the two kingdoms reflecting the poll results? I mean I can sort of understand that the polls for Belgium and Spain are at least on point with the rest of the kingdoms with separatist movements and the occasional scandal but I think the dip of support in the Netherlands was rather baseless, I know attitudes change but wouldn't we've seen discussions in the Dutch parliament about a possible referendum?

imo this article from 2016 pretty much sums it up
https://nos.nl/artikel/2102293-de-koning-is-geliefd-de-monarchie-minder.html
google translated

the king is quite popular (the queen even more) the monarchie itself not so much, but that doesn't mean that it will be overthrown any time soon.

Imo one of the reasons why a republic is not really considered at the moment is because we dutch like a "neutral" head of state and we assume that with a republic one of our politiciams would become head of state and as there are many political parties in the NL that would be a whirlwind alltogether.

I don't think a serious "opinion about becoming a republic" poll was ever held...

 

[M. Payton]

For those that would ever want a republic then all you have to do is come take a long hard look at the US with all the wild and different everything that goes on here and where nothing gets done, for then you can see *What not to do in your homeland*....there are way to many cooks in the kitchen here and there is never anything on the table for the people, it all goes back to the cooks...

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think that the republic wil start in the Netherlands or in Sweden. People often make the wrong calculation: Victoria is popular, or Máxima is popular, wow the monarchy is safe.

But a personal popularity says little about the opinion of having a system which delivers the head of state by hereditary succession. When asked: "Do you like to elect your own head of state?" I think that the answer on that will shift more and more to a republic.

But again: King Willem-Alexander enjoys popularity. Queen Máxima has always been the most popular member of the Royal House. But that is just "phwwwttt", replacing air. The most popular royal today easily can become the most unpopular royal tomorrow.

As we could see with "modern" things like gender-neutral civil law, same-gender marriages, liberal laws on use of soft drugs, seeing the right on choosing the own death as an ultimate personal and autonomous choice, etc. all these often started in the Benelux- or Scandinavian countries. When ONE country allows a referendum on the monarchy, let us say Sweden, then it is not so strange to expect that there will be pressure to hold similar referendums in Spain, or the Netherlands. And in these days 500.000 signatures are a piece of a cake, via the electronic domain.

No, I make no any illusion. The Netherlands will fall as first. All will be done in a typically neat Dutch way. No revolution. No bloodshed. No exile. All with generous arrangements for the former royal family (and they themselves have a life-insurance in the Crown Domains which have to be returned to them in case of a republic).

 

[Mbruno]

I think that the republic wil start in the Netherlands or in Sweden. People often make the wrong calculation: Victoria is popular, or Máxima is popular, wow the monarchy is safe.

But a personal popularity says little about the opinion of having a system which delivers the head of state by hereditary succession. When asked: "Do you like to elect your own head of state?" I think that the answer on that will shift more and more to a republic.

But again: King Willem-Alexander enjoys popularity. Queen Máxima has always been the most popular member of the Royal House. But that is just "phwwwttt", replacing air. The most popular royal today easily can become the most unpopular royal tomorrow.

As we could see with "modern" things like gender-neutral civil law, same-gender marriages, liberal laws on use of soft drugs, seeing the right on choosing the own death as an ultimate personal and autonomous choice, etc. all these often started in the Benelux- or Scandinavian countries. When ONE country allows a referendum on the monarchy, let us say Sweden, then it is not so strange to expect that there will be pressure to hold similar referendums in Spain, or the Netherlands. And in these days 500.000 signatures are a piece of a cake, via the electronic domain.

No, I make no any illusion. The Netherlands will fall as first. All will be done in a typically neat Dutch way. No revolution. No bloodshed. No exile. All with generous arrangements for the former royal family (and they themselves have a life-insurance in the Crown Domains which have to be returned to them in case of a republic).

Polls notwithstanding, the only country where I I see a republican movement with a credible chance of success in a near future is Spain and maybe also in Belgium. In other monarchies, even if support for the monarchy falls to the 50-60 % range, there is no clear desire for a republic to replace it.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Polls notwithstanding, the only country where I I see a republican movement with a credible chance of success in a near future is Spain and maybe also in Belgium. In other monarchies, even if support for the monarchy falls to the 50-60 % range, there is no clear desire for a republic to replace it.

But that are polls. No one has ever asked the Dutchman, or the Swede, or the Belgian in the street the real question in a real referendum.

And then the wording of question is very important

REFERENDUM
The head of state must be:
A) democratically elected by the people
B) determined by hereditary succession

REFERENDUM
Do you want to have the right to elect the head of state?
A) Yes
B) No

These questions have another "load" than:

REFERENDUM
Since 1403 the House of Orange-Nassau is part of our national history and identity.
Do you want to end this centuries long bond?
A) Yes
B) No

 

[Michiru-Kaiou]

What I always find funny in these debates - what makes the public so sure they'll get to elect their head-of-state in a republic? I'm German and the public has absolutely no say in who our head-of-state is, even though we are a (federal) republic. We're getting our President basically dumped on our head by the whim of whoever can scramble a majority together.

So - a republic isn't a guarantee you get to actually vote for your head-of-state. Why change it then? From a monarchy, that is.

best wishes Michiru

 

[Marengo]

I believe that the new cabinet wants to abolish the referendum. So it will soon be impossible to have one about the monarchy. For most political parties it would be political suicide to actively pursue the abolishment of the monarchy at this point.

From left to right there are no parties that even passively want to abolish the monarchy. The -former Maoist- Socialist Party recently changed their position and now claim that:

A monarchy into a democracy is not logical. We believe that any political post holder, including the head of State, should be chosen. However, many Dutch people attach great importance to the Royal House. That is why the monarchy well be fitted into our democracy. The current head of State should have a ceremonial function, as a symbol and representative of Netherlands.

The new extreme right party 'Forum for Democracy' has nothing about the monarchy on their website/programme. But considering they are in favour of direct democracy, directly chosen prime minister, mayors etc. it would be logical that they want their head of state to be chosen too. Geert Wilders and his henchmen seem to have stopped attacking the monarchy, I suppose his objections mainly related to the person of Beatrix.

 

[Blog Real]

No country gets nothing in becoming a Republic. The monarchy is much better. I think all monarchies are popular.