Dutch Nobility

[Marengo]

For Dutch posters, a few episodes of Michiel van Erp's programme Hollands Welvaren.

An episode with Count Cecil John of Limburg-Stirum and his vibrant, lovely wife Countess Machteld, née Hooykaas (an archeologist) who is a rather good storyteller: 'en daar lag de tuinman dood... bij de vruchtenkelder'.

Hollands welvaren gemist? Kijk het op npo.nl - NPO

They show their Rotterdam residence Schoonoord, which the countess inherited from her stephfather, Jacob Mees (of the banking family). Apparently she chased a burglar out of the house twice. She reveals that her grandfather was an extramarital child of king Willem III, though they bleeped the name of the king on the countess request afterwards. The count and countess were introduced to each other by a mutual friend, a member of the Van Vollenhoven family.

---

And an episode about the lively Ambachtsvrouwe of Kloetinge, Mrs. Jeanne van Dijk van 't Velde, née Jkvr. Radermacher Schorer. Her late husband was the intendant of the Dutch palaces during the reign of Queen Juliana:
Hollands welvaren gemist? Kijk het op npo.nl - NPO

She mentions in the episode 'sweet Juliana' and recollects how the queen usually wore fake jewels that often went missing.

[CyrilVladisla]

Cornelis de Graeff (1671-1719) was a Canon of St. Pieter at Utrecht.
At Ilpenstein Castle he had an art collection.
One of the paintings Cornelis owned was Jacob Blessing the Sons of Joseph by Rembrandt.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Wednesday 15 August 2018 saw the death of Hugo graaf van Zuylen van Nijevelt. His eldest son Philippe will become the new count. Because of this Philippe's spouse - the Grootmeesteres- will be a countess: Maria Louise Alexandra gravin van Zuylen van Nijevelt née jonkvrouw den Beer Poortugael.

Under Napoléon Philip Julius van Zuylen van Nijevelt was created Comte de l'Empire. Back then he was the highest functionary serving under Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte and Hortense de Beauharnais (King and Queen of Holland 1806-1810).

By Royal Decree of October 17th 1822 King Willem I of the Netherlands recognized the family Van Zuylen van Nijevelt in the Nobility of the Netherlands with the title baron (barones) for all and the title of graaf from eldest son to eldest son.

Picture: Joséphine ("Pien") van Karnebeek - Thijssen (Hofdame) and Maria Louisa ("Bibi") gravin van Zuylen van Nijevelt - den Beer Poortugael (Grootmeesteres) leave the Royal Palace Amsterdam

[Brenna]

Hi there, I'm new here and I had a quick question that Google has not been able to solve for me though I've been trying to find the answer for weeks. So I wondered if someone here might be able to answer.

I've been studying how Dutch titles and nobility works, i.e. how titles are passed on and it's my understanding that the children of a Count are all titled Baron/Baroness of that family and that their children are also titled baron/baroness, etc.

My questions are these:

Would the great grandson (descended through the male line) of a Dutch Count also be a baron?

Would his wife, when he married, be called baroness?

In the Netherlands, how are these nobles addressed? With a "my lord" equivalent or simply Mr/Sir ?

To any of you who might know or might point me in the right direction for where I can find out, thank you. I do not read Dutch but I'm very hardworking and can use Google translate to read source materials.

Thank you.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Hi Brenna, welcome on the forum.

Members of the Nobility have a noble title or noble predicate.

Someone belongs to the Nobility:
- if he or she has been granted nobility by Royal Decree;
- if someone's father belongs to the Nobility.

The Nobility in the Netherlands is a historical institution with historical rules, therefore titles are inherited exclusively along a male line. Daughters are of nobility too, but they can not pass on nobility themselves.

The sons and daughters of a jonkheer (= a noble without a title) are jonkheer and jonkvrouw.

The sons and daughters of a nobleman with a noble title bear:
- the same title, or
- a lower title, or
- the predicate jonkheer or jonkvrouw.
That depends on what has been determined when the title is created by Royal Decree.
Only the title of Ridder (knight) has no feminine form. The daughter of a knight is a jonkvrouw.

The titles in the Nobility of the Netherlands are:

prins / prinses
Prince / Princess (not of the Royal House)
Example: Philippe de Riquet de Caraman Chimay prins van Chimay

hertog / hertogin
Duke / Duchess
Example: Thierry Robert Henri Camille hertog van Looz en Corswarem *

markies / markiezin
Marquess / Marchioness
Example: Nicholas Power Richard Le Poer Trench markies van Heusden

graaf / gravin
Count / Countess
Example: Leila Marie Agnes Geneviève Andrée gravin de Marchant et d'Ansembourg

burggraaf / burggravin
Viscount / Viscountess
Example: Hans-Marald burggraaf de Preud'homme d'Hailly de Nieuport

baron / barones
Baron / Baroness
Example: Georg Wolfgang Carel Duco baron thoe Schwartzenberg en Hohenlansberg

ridder
Knight
Example: Maurice Hubert Frederik ridder De van der Schueren


* Has become Soutern-Netherlands Nobility (Belgium)

[maria-olivia]

Are they still van Zuylen (family of the late Hélène de R.) ?

[An Ard Ri]

When was the last new Dutch noble created exluding members of the Dutch RF and extended family?

[Marengo]

These titles will appear in official documents and maybe on wedding invitations/ funeral announcements, society pages (not that we have many of those). Most birth and even announcements leave the title away.

They are seldom used in daily conversation. Even in a professional context they are seldom used these days. Perhaps only once in a while on the official webpage of a company (incl. the royal court) to give the board/ agency a bit of cachet.

F.e. the editor of the magazine Quote is Sander Cornelis, Graaf Schimmelpenninck. He does not use the title, he will not have it on his business card, it does not feature in the byline when he is invited as a guest in a television program. But it does appear on his Wikipedia page and newspaper articles about him may mention his background somewhere.

Our minister of interior affairs, Karin Hildur (Kasja) Jonkvrouwe Ollongren is never called 'freule' and is simply known as Kasja Ollongren.

The former CEO of KPMG is Albert Jonkeer Roëll. His title is seldom mentioned anywhere.

The head of one of the oldest and most prestigious surviving noble families is baron Arent van Wassenaer van Catwijck. He is lawyer and only uses Arent van Wassenaer. His wife is a doctor and does not use the title in a professional context either.

Author and theatre maker Marjolein Baroness van Heemstra does not use that title. It did pop up in interviews when she published a novel about somebody who was the last in the line of a noble family.

Complicated names of both the aristocracy as the patriciate are sometimes shortened when the person prefers. Ms Bracha Semeijns de Vries van Doesburgh is an actress, but is only known as Bracha van Doesburgh. Others prefer the entire name: Reverend Welmet Hudig-Semeijns de Vries van Doesburgh -who led the funeral of Queen Juliana- uses it all.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Are they still van Zuylen (family of the late Hélène de R.) ?

There are two families of that name:

The counts van Zuylen van Nievelt (sometimes spelled as Nyevelt) was ennobled in 1311 and comes from the province of Utrecht.

The counts of this family became extinct with the death of Css Louise Marie Clemence van Zuylen van Nievelt (married to a baron van Nagell) in 1947.

There was a branch of the family that pre-dated the elevation of the family as counts. They moved to the Southern Netherlands but later bought and restored castle de Haar near Utrecht. Marie-Helene de Rotschild was a member of that branch. Her brother baron Thierry van Zuylen van Nyevelt van de Haar died in 2011. He was the last male of the family. His five daughters are alive and can still use a part of the castle for themselves. Upon their deaths the family will be extinct.


**

A second family of almost the same name are the counts van Zuylen van Nijevelt. They can trace their anscestery back to Gerrit Fredericxz van Nyvelt, a tradesman from Zwolle in 1554. The family moved to Rotterdam where in the 17th century they added 'van Zuylen' to their name. The family was ennobled in 1808 by Napoleon and were in 1815 and 1822 recognized as Dutch nobility. The family tried to prove in the 19th century that they descend from the much older family of the same name, but they did not succeed.

The family owns the theme park Duinrell in Wassenaar, located on their estate.The present count is Philip, Graaf van Zuylen van Nijevelt. His wife is Countess Maria Louisa Alexandra (Bibi) van Zuylen van Nijevelt She was born as a Jonkvrouwe Den Beer Poortugael and is now the grand mistress of the Queen. Her own family originates in Schiedam, where they were regents of the city. The family was only ennobled in 1903.

When was the last new Dutch noble created exluding members of the Dutch RF and extended family?

The last time a (non royal) family was ennobled was in 1939, the Van Valkenburg family from Haarlem. In 1953 the cabinet decided that it would not raise people into the nobility any longer. This only became law in 1994.

Note that apart from King Willem I the royal family was not overly generous in creating new titles. And a lot of the more prestigious patrician families refused to be ennobled, seeing it as a demotion instead of a promotion.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Some nobles display their title, like Professor Dr. Maurice Hubert Frederik ridder De van der Schueren on the website of the Rijksuniversiteit Groningen: https://www.rug.nl/staff/m.h.f.ridde...er.schueren/cv

Most nobles just use their surnames in daily life without mentioning their title.

[maria-olivia]

Thanks Marengo,
Marie Hélène de Rothschild was born van Zuylen de Nyevelt. She first married the Baron of Nicolay , she had a son Philippe who married and divorced SA la Princesse Sophie de Ligne.
Marie Hélène divorced to marry Baron Guy de Rothschild and she was the Queen of Paris...

[JR76]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Thanks Marengo,
Marie Hélène de Rothschild was born van Zuylen de Nyevelt. She first married the Baron of Nicolay , she had a son Philippe who married and divorced SA la Princesse Sophie de Ligne.
Marie Hélène divorced to marry Baron Guy de Rothschild and she was the Queen of Paris...

I believe that Marie Hélène was of half Egyptian descent and had some Rothschild blood herself. She was also a close friend of Coco Chanel.

[Marengo]

Originally Posted by maria-olivia

Thanks Marengo,
Marie Hélène de Rothschild was born van Zuylen de Nyevelt. She first married the Baron of Nicolay , she had a son Philippe who married and divorced SA la Princesse Sophie de Ligne.
Marie Hélène divorced to marry Baron Guy de Rothschild and she was the Queen of Paris...

I saw some photos of Marie-Hélène de Rotschild in Castle de Haar. Note that her paternal grandmother -who paid for the contruction of the castle- was also a Hélène de Rotschild.

The place is absolutely bonkers and was mainly used for parties at the end of summer when the family would come over from Paris for the month September. In the entrance hall there is a sort of bathtub, which was used to cool the bottles of Champagne. Apparently Brigitte Bardot drove a moped in the corridors of the castle. The neo-gothic furniture and decorations were all designed by Pierre Cuypers (architect of the castle) so the building and its interior and exterior formed a unity.

Baron Thierry was a bon-vivant who spent the family's money and married several times. His second marriage was to a friend of his eldest daughter, who apparently left him on the wedding night.

The castle needed a renovation that costed 50 million euros. The biggest problem was -and still is- that the castle is too heavy and is slowly sinking into the bottom.

The baron tried to auction some furniture in the late nineties to finance a renovation but only raised 3 million. In 2000 the castle was transferred to a foundation, which receives subsedies from the state. After the death of the baron the family received a high tax bill from Dutch authorities. They thought of auctioning the furniture but instead they acquired subsidies and moved the remaining furniture to the foundation in 2012.

Thierry's eldest daughter Bss Alexandra is an English teacher in Paris but she is the one that is most involved in running the castle/museum. She claims that Gregory Peck was the nicest of all the celebrities that stayed in the castle during its glory days.

The family does not use the castle itself but the side building -originally intended for the staff- which is not open for visitors though there is a tunnel between the two parts, under the moat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU2XuWrvYL8

[Somebody]

Had some fun today. As Dutch living abroad, we had to register to vote for the parliamentary elections in March. The registration form contained the field 'title', so I figured they wanted to know whether we would want to be addressed as mr/mrs or probably academic title but the field contained the following options:

Baron
Barones
Graaf
Gravin
Hertog
Hertogin
Markies
Markiezin
Prins
Prinses
Ridder

And the next field was 'predicate', with the options jonkheer/jonkvrouw...

I truly wonder why they included these fields; do they really need to please the nobility by providing them the opportunity to include their title? In addition, as far as I am aware there are probably two marquesses (markiezen): one is the 9th Earl of Clancarty, a member of the British House of Lords (I doubt he has the Dutch nationality) and the other is the King of the Netherlands (his titles include two marquesates). And there are no dukes or duchesses incorporated in the Dutch nobility...

And if it is important, why is 'burggraaf/burggravin' not included, if the one and only Burggraaf of the Netherlands: Burggraaf Hans-Marald de Preud'homme d'Hailly de Nieuport were to move abroad he wouldn't be able to include his title!

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by Somebody

Had some fun today. As Dutch living abroad, we had to register to vote for the parliamentary elections in March. The registration form contained the field 'title', so I figured they wanted to know whether we would want to be addressed as mr/mrs or probably academic title but the field contained the following options:

Baron
Barones
Graaf
Gravin
Hertog
Hertogin
Markies
Markiezin
Prins
Prinses
Ridder

And the next field was 'predicate', with the options jonkheer/jonkvrouw...

I truly wonder why they included these fields; do they really need to please the nobility by providing them the opportunity to include their title? In addition, as far as I am aware there are probably two marquesses (markiezen): one is the 9th Earl of Clancarty, a member of the British House of Lords and the other is the King of the Netherlands (his titles include to marquesates). And there are no dukes or duchesses incorporated in the Dutch nobility...

And if it is important, why is 'burggraaf/burggravin' not included, if the one and only Burggraaf of the Netherlands: Burggraaf Hans-Marald de Preud'homme d'Hailly de Nieuport were to move abroad he wouldn't be able to include his title!

There are more princes, dukes, marquesses and viscounts in the Nobility of the Netherlands. The Adelslijst of 1816 is still used. Since the secession of the Southern Netherlands many of these families have also been incorporated into the Nobility of Belgium but their registration, their recognition, their inscription into the filatelieregister and their Adelsdiploma's are all still with the Hoge Raad van Adel.

The burggraaf (vicomte) de Preudhomme d'Hailly de Nieuport is exactly an example: because his title is a title of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, he could reside in Roosendaal (Netherlands) and register himself as Burggraaf.

When a gentleman or lady from the family De Looz-Corswarem choses to purchase a villa in Wassenaar and registers him- or herself, he/she can do that as a Prins (Prinses) or as Hertog (Hertogin) indeed because that is exactly their entry into the Nobility of the Netherlands, signed by King Willem I of the Netherlands, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg, sealed with his Great Seal and stored at the Hoge Raad van Adel in The Hague.

On the website of the Hoge Raad van Adel they still include the originally Dutch noble families now residing in the former Southern Netherlands: https://www.hogeraadvanadel.nl/adel/...lijke-families

[An Ard Ri]

Are there any Dutch marquises?

I always assumed the highest title in the Dutch Peerage was a Count as I don't believe there are any Dutch dukes.

[Duc_et_Pair]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

Are there any Dutch marquises?

I always assumed the highest title in the Dutch Peerage was a Count as I don't believe there are any Dutch dukes.

The Earl of Clancarty is an example of a Marquess in the Nobility of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. The Duke of Wellington is a Prince in the Nobility of the Netherlands. There are more but most of them reside outside the Netherlands (like Clancarty and Wellington), so not registered in a municipal register in the Netherlands, meaning they are "dormant" but nevertheless still in existence.

Since the secession of the Southern Netherlands and the end of the Union with Luxembourg many viscounts, marquessses, dukes and princes saw themselves registered in a new country (Belgium). Now they are "foreign families belonging to the Nobility of the Kingdom of the Netherlands".

Their elevation, incorporation, recognition, homologation by Willem I of Orange-Nassau, King of the Netherlands, Grand-Duke of Luxembourg, for the first Adelslijst of 1816 (which legally enregistered all existing rights from the Holy Roman Empire, from the Habsburg Empire as well new creations is and remains legal.)

When the Earl of Clancarty buys a house in Maastricht and registers himself at the City Hall, he can use his Dutch title and become the Hooggeboren Heer Nicholas Power Richard le Poer Trench, Markies van Heusden.

[SLV]

The king is Duke of Limburg I believe.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair

There are more princes, dukes, marquesses and viscounts in the Nobility of the Netherlands. The Adelslijst of 1816 is still used. Since the secession of the Southern Netherlands many of these families have also been incorporated into the Nobility of Belgium but their registration, their recognition, their inscription into the filatelieregister and their Adelsdiploma's are all still with the Hoge Raad van Adel.

Do you have to have Dutch nationality to be registered in the nobility of the Netherlands? If they don't have the Dutch nationality (because almost 2 centuries ago their family became Belgian), they are not allowed to vote; so including their titles in this specific form was pointless.

[Somebody]

Originally Posted by SLV

The king is Duke of Limburg I believe.

True! However, he doesn't live abroad permanently and doesn't vote, so, there is no need to include the title of duke (or duchess) in a voter registration form for Dutch nationals living abroad.